Thanks very much jeff! You narrowed it down to a few teachers that are closer, one a guitarist that states to be a teacher of improvisation to all instruments, but i will contact them more and find what kind of structure there to their lessons and what they would teach... Yes i agree about the different books, its the point you make, our instrument is relatively young and teaching of it is often flawed, whereas the teaching of other instruments is proven far better. I will actually contact zoltan dekany like you have recommended before, i looked into him on myspace but he didn't really advertise himself as available for teaching right now but it wouldnt hurt to ask... Maybe i can't play well enough to learn with him though? Did he teach beginners during his time at the player's school? I am not afraid of the truth that i probably really am a beginner on my instrument, just afraid of rejection to some extent hehe... Thanks man, this part 2's shaping up great huh?
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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed Part II
- Thread starter Mark Wilson
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Yes that dastardly chord tones bookI've only had my copy for a few days but I've had to force myself to put it down at times and not neglect other things I'm working on, such as a book of simple cello pieces I'm using just to brush up on my reading. I've been playing for nineteen years but it's only in the last three or so that I've become aware of how valuable chord tones are. Scales and modes helped me develope technique and an understanding of chord relationships/function but being aware of chord tones have really helped with my musicality and melodic sense. Plus they've changed how I listen to music. I'm now able to listen to certain jazz that used to confuse me and appreciate the beauty of the interaction between the soloist and the rest of the group.
It's a subtle point, but still important to make. One shouldn't brush up on their reading. One should read. Nobody brushes up on their English. One reads English (for example) because they already learned how. If you need brushing up, then I believe that you may not have learned how to read that well. If this is so, then it would be a great thing to learn well.
It is with you guys doing what you are doing. Be honest! Isn't it great now that the talkers and fakers are gone?
- Jun 25, 2007
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- Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
- Jun 25, 2007
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- 135
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- Disclosures
- Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
Hey Jeff-
Do you have any opinions on why music is appreciated more in other parts of the world than in the US?
I really noticed this when I was in Europe. Especially American music.
I know you just came back from touring over there. Any thoughts?
Do you have any opinions on why music is appreciated more in other parts of the world than in the US?
I really noticed this when I was in Europe. Especially American music.
I know you just came back from touring over there. Any thoughts?
This is true and i'll be the first to admit that reading has always been my weakest point. I only started reading years after I'd started playin and my ear had developed to a stage where I could pick things up fairly quickly. It would be more accurate to say that I can write music and analyse written music but my reading with an instrument in hand is well below standard. The cello books I'm using along with some trombone books are very rudimentary in their actual harmonic content but suit where I'm at with actual reading ability. It's rather ironic that I could sit a theory exam, write four part classical harmony and score good marks but I'm often lost with a score in front of me and bass in hand.
I am not sure why. But I've been to countries that have treated me like a star. I needed security. I stayed in 5 star accomodations. And the gigs were always sold out. I knew how much people cared about good playing outside the U.S. and so I always made sure that when I performed, that the music would be on fire. The audience deserved it because they were giving more of an opportunity to American musicians than the Americans were offering. So, we went the extra mile and hung, signed autographs, took pictures, and played longer sets. We loved it.
So, something more like this then?:
Do you suggest doing them in one octave ranges?
So, something more like this then?:
Do you suggest doing them in one octave ranges?
If you can only play one octave, then this is what you should do. If you can play full neck arpeggios this is also a good practice principle. But remember that chord tones come in different chord types and different inversions and in 12 keys. Plus, on jazz tunes, they connect differently than by always resolving to a root (for example). There's a lot of work to be done so take your time.
+1. A source of endless frustration. Can one make a living playing jazz in America, if you are not one of the greats? Even the greats seem to have to do European or Japanese tours to make ends meet. I think this is all part of the general de-evolution of American culture and Education. My mother, who is 62, played violin in a school orchestra, at a PUBLIC SCHOOL in Evanston, ILL where the music teacher had a PHD! Now, most schools are slashing their music programs and kids in band are lucky to have an instrument, let alone offering orchestra or jazz band.
And we wonder why their are so many on TB who can't read music, and don't know what notes comprise a Cmaj7 chord?
That is why Jeff get's such hate, because his teaching goes against the grain of America's McDonald's culture. Europe and Japan in particular seem to offer MUCH better artistic education in the middle school and high school level and therefor the AVERAGE German grew up learning to value Mozart and Bach and the jazz greats.
Sorry to rant here, but this is sore spot for me. We need more teachers like Jeff at the public schools, who teach others to study music deeply and to be passionate about music.
I was thinking I would get comfortable with the maj7 before moving on to the other chord types (m7, 7, etc...). Do you think I should initially work through all the different chord types as opposed to learning one type well and then moving on to the next?
Get comfortable with one, and then move on to the next. Either way, you are learning great material and varying the manner that you learn isn't going to be detrimental to your musical growth, not as long as you take your time to learn well the music, errors included.
I also picked up "Chord Studies for Electric Bass". Jeff, you should be asking for a royalty fee! 
I'm not used to so many ledger lines!
I'm not used to so many ledger lines!Unfortunately, you nailed it, especially the part where people are so angry with me because my teaching goes against the grain of America's MacDonald's culture. 100% correct. Some guys are furious because I shake up their world in music ed.
I am not for political correctness and have no interest in being so! I am not politically correct! I am correct! There is a big difference! People who talk the talk (some of whom have finally gone away from this thread) take my comments and attribute them to ego. It is not ego. It is my wish to stand for truths in music no matter the cost, no matter the resentment, no matter the feelings to the contrary about me. Mixed in with the emotionally upset guys are a lot of guys who can see the merits in pursuing a meaningful academic musical life to aid and improve one's art and heartfelt musical expression. Music is a skillful undertaking, but to read how some people regard the learning of it, you would think that anything and everything works to guide one toward musical ability. If anything and everything works then why do so many players have a hard time even playing the music that they hear in their heads?
People are funny because they aren't interested in truth. They are interested in validation! And unless they embrace some musical fact and approach to coax musical ability out of one's instrument, they won't find any validation here, not from me they won't. But if they seek musical truth no matter the level of ability, no matter if one is a pure beginner, or a seasoned player, then these are the guys for me.
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
I also picked up "Chord Studies for Electric Bass". Jeff, you should be asking for a royalty fee!
If I contributed any material to the book, yer darn right I should. But, I didn't. I just let other peope know about it. Let Richard Appleman and Phil Wilson earn the royalties. It is earned in the name of great musical academia.
Enjoy the Chord Studies book, but take it slow when doing the etudes. They are tricky exercises and need time to regard.
- Jun 25, 2007
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Hey, I grew up playing violin in orchestras in Evanston too! What school and what teacher was it? Dr. Mistak by any chance?
Evanston Township high school had a great music program for classical, jazz, and electronic music. In LA, I give my kids lessons at home because the public schools have little or nothing to offer.
I love the ideas in this thread. I'm getting SO much out of the Chord studies book, going through chord tone combinations all up and down the neck, across the neck in one position, up and down one string, two strings... It feels like my brain is expanding! I've known a lot of theory for many years, but I'm finally starting to be able to relate it to my playing.
I'm also practicing reciting ii/V7/I's in all keys in all inversions, that's really helping me recognize them when I see them in music.
You mentioned earlier in the Part 1 of this thread that you would never do a method DVD or something like that again. Ever consider writing a book with many of the common exercises you give to students including some of the chord tone exercises/studies you mention?
If you consider what is required in a school education in relation to the numbers now in education the figures don't add up.
Every subject is under pressure not just music, if you studied biology,art, drama, you would find your subject cut.
It is easy for anyone to talk about or point out the problems but none are in a position to do anything about it. Even here on TB with all the good will and work that say this thread tries to do in the end it has no budget and no responsibility to anyone reading or following its instruction. There is no wage, fuel, stationary, equipment, security checks, rent,instrument, technical,etc etc......
It deals with one subject, and a subject that is subjective at that. In essence music is part of an Arts Programme, not a subject that is necessary for a working life, music education is a choice, and one that the player makes.
That is why serious players will always find teachers, and great teachers at that, for their subject.
Anyone can set up a forum, but it costs money, so if anyone feels that this thread gets out of hand, a thread on an open and free, that is free forum, can if they want start up their own forum, take the responsibility for its up keep and management.
Education has a duty to turn out students that can function in the work place and society, and i'm sorry to say but music is not a functional necessity in a modern eduction system.
Never mind students that there are those who can't read music, and don't know what notes comprise a Cmaj7 chord. What about those that can't read and write, understand basic arithmetic, have social skills to interact in life?
Music has a place for those who choose it, education has more pressing issues than who is getting great music instruction.
That come later and the student funds that.. not tax payer.
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