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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed
- Thread starter JeffBerlin
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Jeff, so would you say that one should remove the 'genre' from their practise routine? Is is more important to focus on learning music, universally, than focusing on the minutae of a particular style?
How does you're methodology relate to world music--where the feel, rhythms and style may have evolved from different cultural elements?
How does you're methodology relate to world music--where the feel, rhythms and style may have evolved from different cultural elements?
Generally, yes! If you look at academics in any field, they are generally bland in nature, yet perfect in its information. It is sort of like astronaut food from the 1960's; it can sustain life, but sometimes it tasted pretty bad. In music, once the particulars are learned, then they can be practiced in different ways.
Example: in Spanish lessons we learned Yo voy a la playa. Tu vas a la playa, ellos van a la playa nosotros vamos a la playa (I, you, they, we go to the beach). But there isn't a Spanish speaking person in the world who talks this way. Therefore, the lesson is factual and the application is hard to do. And yet, through lessons like these, I turned into a pretty good Spanish speaker. Facts rule and many people don't know the facts about music and when they play, you can hear that they don't. Learn music via academics and also play. It is a multi-vitamin guaranteed to help you grow in musical health.
Gotcha. In college, instead of blazing through licks in 12 keys, I worked out of Simandl for the 2nd or 3rd time. (I was playing upright exclusively.) I would rather spend my time on technique and intonation. If there was a phrase that caught my ear, I would try to study the underlying principle/concept instead of just the phrase. Even though I was a jazz major, I spent alot of time working on solo classical peices and it really helped my intonation, timing, phasing, technique, bowing, etc.
I still practise this way today. Is this a good way to approach practise? Also, when do you start to incorporate more advanced concepts into the routine?
Arco'ed instruments require a lot more time on them just to make them sound good, sometimes years. Piano or drums is different; they don't require any effort to make them sound good as instruments. But now I would add harmonically valuable musical exercises to your day, that is, if you are interested in music other than the broad classical repertoir.
Once again, Jeff, thanks for taking the time to post.
Can you offer any insight into learning world musics--where there might be a different tradition than the Euro/American 'school' of music? Would you approach ALL music the same way, or would you try to study the history of the specific music/culture/pedegogy?
Can you offer any insight into learning world musics--where there might be a different tradition than the Euro/American 'school' of music? Would you approach ALL music the same way, or would you try to study the history of the specific music/culture/pedegogy?
I don't want to argue either. But, I've thought this through for a long, long time and one thing is clear; if you do away with certain devices or approaches to learning how to play, then you have to replace them with other ideas to work on. I suggest that players should learn music, itself. People have practiced music for centuries and it has never, not once, failed anybody who learned the correct things the correct ways. Learning music has no weaknesses, it has no limits.
Another thought is this; you had mentioned that your job is to “sight-read new music (easy or tricky) almost everyday with a click or sequence or loops." You said that this skill comes in part "from practicing scales (all of them) with a metronome for years.” I asked you how you learned to read by practicing scales with a metronome when scales don’t include rhythmical notations nor include different time signatures which must come with some of the new music that you may be reading. My logic tells me that one cannot sight read by practicing scales because the two experiences are different and don't include the same principles. Reading music means to interpret the rhythms of the notes that you are reading. The mostly non-rhythmically written scales that you practiced can't teach you what they do not include. If you are skilled enough to be hired as a sight-reading bass player, then you acquired this skill by reading much more complete musical parts before you got this gig. This is logical.Would you agree? Thanks for your input!
I guess we can say that there are different levels of learning. When i did practice my 16ths rhytms at first I couldn't do them with a click. I needed to learn them by counting my subdivisions. But not long after I putted them at test with a click to make sure it was accurate. Then I started to sight-read them and then perform them with clicks.
As far as scales since they don't have rhytms we can make them anything we want. You just gave me the idea of putting them in 7/8 or 7/16 since most of them have 7 notes.
Thank you ;-)
sly
Music sucks in large part due to the lack of strong voices on the subject. Serious music is just about dead because too many people want to 'get long' rather than be honest in their observations. Please be a kinder JB but dont loose your edge younger players lost in a sea of alternate tuning BS need you.
I'm not sure! I've always stuck with trombone music to teach one how to read as it was written to be melodically meaningful and rhythmically not-always-so-eighth-notey. Jazz is the best academic music you can learn. Trombone music is some of the best reading music you can find. From there, you have to pursue other avenues of reading because there are a lot of great books out there to regard. Big band charts are also fantastic because they are complete parts to read. Great stuff those big band parts!
Thank YOU! Incidently, here is a question for you and for everyone else. How many notes are there in music, not scales, but in typical western music?
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
A metronome is a tool and, if used in the manner for which it was made, quite an effective one. The hammer is a tool and is effective in the same way. And in the same way you would not "blame" the hammer for being a bad tool because somebody is trying to use it to paint a house, one shouldn't call a metronome useless because it gets misused. We disagree on this point and will continue to disagree. Do you also insist that working on ear training with a "pitch constant" (like a piano) is as useless/pointless as working on your time with a "rhythmic constant" (like a metronome)?
The people who question JB crack me up. I think his mastery of the intrument and his thriving school validates his teaching methods. Thanks to JB for stopping by and giving some free education.
No, my point is specific. A metronome is not effective in helping one to develop good time. A piano is an instrument of music. They are two different items.
Sometimes it amuses me as well! I have noticed that some guys take my comments to be as insulting as if I called their family a bad name.
But, to be fair, there is almost none of this on this thread, which makes our hang a pleasure. I don't want to argue with anybody, but I've been around. I've done things, learned things, studied things, played in places and under a variety of situations, hung and played with the best musicians who ever lived, and still study. You pick up a few things doing this. Ultimately, the truth is this; either one can play or they can't. If they can't then there is time to change this. But you really have to want to change, and this is the challenge! Most don't want to change!
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
As I said, I disagree because, as I have stated anytime we have had these discussions, that's how I developed good time. In precisely the same way I use a piano to work on ear training, by proper application to the work at hand.
JJK - happy you're amused.
Jeff, how would you advise a player to improve their time without the use of a metronome? Assuming that they've been playing for years, have decent time already, but really want to hone in on their small timing issues? Or would you say that small timing issues aren't really a problem in the first place? And if that's the case, let's assume that they have horrible timing.
He's only amused with those guys who wear their feelings on their sleeves.
Take a DbminMaj7 chord tone arpeggio and play it going up and down the neck. You can't do it because you haven't learned the notes. Now take the same apeggio and learn it slowly, fixing each note when you make a mistake playing it. Eventually you will learn how to play this piece of music in time. You make the same mistake that some guys make who feel that their improvement comes from another source than where it came from. Some people eat well and take tons of vitamins and believe that they are healthy because of the high amount of vitamins that they take. But, they would have been healthy whether they took those vitamins or not. Metronome users do the same thing. They would have always learned how to play in time if they used a click or not, but don't have the musical experience to know this.
Try the DbminMAJ 7 arpeggio and practice it without the metronome until you've learned it well. Then play it without the click. If you can play it in time, then you never needed a metronome in the first place. Let me know!
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