Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed

[JeffBerlin]

Thanks for dropping by.

I know what you you are saying about knowledge been essential for us bass players. I'm into it big time.
It's just in context of the reply from someone else I saw it more in aiming to solo application then anything else.

Sly

The beauty of learning is that the indirect, not direct application is applicable to most things musical. Example:
indirectly, a chord tone exercise might end up being a reggae bassline because they share similar tonality. But if you try a reggae bass line in 12 keys two octaves, you have an exercise to deal with. If an exercise is used to de-mystifyy musical issues and how to represent them on an instrument, then they are doing what they should be doing, which is teaching the instrument via factual musical methods. Scales, most reading material could be used in a loose way (because I don't believe in applying lessons to real time music) in performance. But the end goal is to explain harmony and where those spots on the bass neck best represent the harmony that you are presently investigating.

 

[JeffBerlin]

what exactly is a chord tone?

It is one of the only four notes that represent a chord. For example, a Cmaj7 is represented by C,E,G,B. The other notes are not essential to define this chord, and so they are used for other things. IN a more involved chord tone group, say, Bbmin7b5 you would have Bb, Db, Fb, Ab.

P.S. the correct note in this sequence IS Fb, not E because even if they share the same sound, they are not the same note.

 

[slybass3000]

Give him my best regards. That's great that he helps your students learn. +1

I will Roy,

Sly

 

[slybass3000]

The beauty of learning is that the indirect, not direct application is applicable to most things musical. Example:
indirectly, a chord tone exercise might end up being a reggae bassline because they share similar tonality. But if you try a reggae bass line in 12 keys two octaves, you have an exercise to deal with. If an exercise is used to de-mystifyy musical issues and how to represent them on an instrument, then they are doing what they should be doing, which is teaching the instrument via factual musical methods. Scales, most reading material could be used in a loose way (because I don't believe in applying lessons to real time music) in performance. But the end goal is to explain harmony and where those spots on the bass neck best represent the harmony that you are presently investigating.

+1 Thanks for these insights,

Sly

 

[Billnc]

Jeff, regarding the chord tone exercises, do you go through cycle 4 etc staying on one string, and also maybe go through the changes of Autumn Leaves on one string? Also, the same thing in moveable "mini positions" i.e. the 4 chord tones on two strings, two notes each string. (a Mick Goodrick term "moveable mini position")

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff, regarding the chord tone exercises, do you go through cycle 4 etc staying on one string, and also maybe go through the changes of Autumn Leaves on one string? Also, the same thing in moveable "mini positions" i.e. the 4 chord tones on two strings, two notes each string. (a Mick Goodrick term "moveable mini position")

Sure! A one string approach, playing your exercies in 12 keys are ways to deal with academic practicing. But, don't make the one string practice principle a dominant way of practice. It is simply a manner to deal with tonality factually, not artistically, at least not at first. Stick to the notes of the lessons and you can learn some permanent factual things that will serve you well. Just make sure to never use a metronome while you are learning new concepts because the click becomes the prioroty, not the musical content that you are investigating.

 

[bench]

Hi Jeff,

still a fantastic thread. just wanted to ask, if you already had a clinic in italy and if so, how was it?

thanks again for hanging around here and keep on having a good time in europe.

best, bench

 

[dukaruk]

Jeff,

I bought the book "Chord Studies for Electric Bass" because of this thread. I am feeling a bit underwater as I look through all of the exercises. I have read bass clef in the past (baritone saxophone) and have had 15 years of reading music on various instruments. But, I am finding that this book is a huge mental exercise for me on multiple levels. (in a good way). I have never tried to read on electric bass and I have never taken a serious interest in studying chord tones.

It's the first bass book that I have that actually focuses on the exercises and not large amounts of text describing music theory.

Is there any advice that you give students when working through the book?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Charlie Banacos sent out a statement about how he is doing and he ended his email this way:

"Please continue your prayers for me and keep practicing your usual 10 hours a day. It's nice to see real musicians that do music for music's sake."

THIS is the real way to improve. Of course I wouldn't necessarilty practice 10 hours a day because this can be a bit much for some guys. But a couple of hours isn't too much to ask for. His statement that it was nice to see real musicians that do music for music's sake is a fantastic thing for him to say. I've been saying literally the same thing for months and I never knew that Charlie would utter the exact same words. Neither did he know that I've been saying these words. The fact is, real musicians are people who pursue music, not music entertainment, not musical employment. You learn music for its own sake, because it IS. Music isn't easy. If is was, then everybody could do it.

I invite as many of you who will read this, not ask questions such as what I mean by "real music" or "real musicians". You know exactly what I mean, but some act confused, which tells me that some aren't interested in practicing good stuff. 100% of anybody who is serious works out how to improve. Charlie knows this. So do all the great teachers in the world. Herb Pomeroy, John LaPorta, Gary Burton, Bill Dobbins, Jamey To learn how to play well, YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER IT! There is more majesty in a 6 year old violin student struggling with Mozart than there is in a generation of bass players learning licks and thinking themselves musically capable. If you love music, then learn it for its own sake. All the great ones know what I am talking about. Thank God for people like Charlie Banacos.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Jeff,

still a fantastic thread. just wanted to ask, if you already had a clinic in italy and if so, how was it?

thanks again for hanging around here and keep on having a good time in europe.

best, bench

Tomorrow I start a string of 8 clinics with Dennis Chambers. We intend to talk about our respective instruments and what and how to imrprove in music. This should be great fun and I hope that some of these guys understand the message about learning slowly, steadily, dedicatedly, over time, reading, soloing, practicing all kinds of new melodic and harmonic principles all for academic improvement, not artful improvement. It is hard to teach art if somebody hears something different than you do.

 

[4001]

Dennis Chambers kicks ass!

http://www.youtube.com/v/EmYYvgBjW2U&hl=en_US&fs=1

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff,

I bought the book "Chord Studies for Electric Bass" because of this thread. I am feeling a bit underwater as I look through all of the exercises. I have read bass clef in the past (baritone saxophone) and have had 15 years of reading music on various instruments. But, I am finding that this book is a huge mental exercise for me on multiple levels. (in a good way). I have never tried to read on electric bass and I have never taken a serious interest in studying chord tones.

It's the first bass book that I have that actually focuses on the exercises and not large amounts of text describing music theory.

Is there any advice that you give students when working through the book?

This is a book that is effective only with players who understand facts of harmony before they get to this book. It is a hard read and doesn't come easily to anybody who is in the earlier stages of musical development.

The reason that I love it so much is because it was actually written by a trombone player, Phil Wilson. Because a trombone player put this book together, this is the reason that it instantly caught my attention when I discovered this book in 1972. Bass players didn't know about this book until I showed it to Richard Appleman and explained to him that electric bass books even up to today, are not very good method books to work out of in general. The reason is that electric bass players, in general, haven't been raised on a diet of melodic and rhyhmical practic methods. Plus, the Nanny and Smandel books are primarily arco literature. But, trombone players have ONLY been raised on solid musical content to practice. Today's electric bass method books can't compare with the solid musical content of great trombone literature. They are written in our clef, they go into the ledger lines, and they are harmonically far more related to chordal harmony. It is THE best muscial vitamin for beginner or intermediate students to use to work on reading and instrument de-mystification. So, when I found this gem, I started to practice out of it when I was 19 years old. Thank God for those violin lessons because the reading out of this book was a piece of cake compared with what I was working on when I was 12 to 14 years old.

If you have real trouble with this book them don't use it. Get some good trombone literature and work on IT for a coupel of months. As your reading improves and your understanding of your instrument goes up as well, then try the Chord Studies for Electric Bass.

 

[Commreman]

The only version of Chord Studies for Electric Bass I have been able to find is the Berklee Press version by Rich Appelman, et al. Is this the book that you are speaking of, or should I dig deeper for a different version?

 

[JeffBerlin]

The only version of Chord Studies for Electric Bass I have been able to find is the Berklee Press version by Rich Appelman, et al. Is this the book that you are speaking of, or should I dig deeper for a different version?

The original that I found in 1972 was the same one that I showed to Appleman, the same one using the exact same notes (as far as I know) as was included in the trombone book. Richard put fingerings onto his book for a couple of the pages, and then I think that he stopped. You should email him at Berklee to ask if his book is identifacl to the one written by Phil Wilson, because I believe that they are.

Now to some road horror stories.

When I flew from Tampa, Florida to Rome, Italy, I put my bass in a hard case and sent it as baggage. I always do this these days because I got tired of sometimes getting my instrument into the plane and often having it put into luggage in just a soft gig bag. When I got to Italy, the first thing that happened was that the line to go through customs wasn't moving even while lines to the left and to the right of me were moving just fine. Almost an hour later, we are still moving one guy at a time. I admit it! I lost my temper and when I finally got to the window, I said to the lady that the flight to Italy was faster than passing through her customs window. She glared at me, stamped my passport, and in 15 seconds after I arrived at her window I was through customs.

The next thing that happened to me was that my bass didn't show up in Rome. My luggage got there all right, but my bass was nowhere to be found. Realize that I only own one bass guitar, the Dean Jeff Berlin bass that I always play. If this bass was lost, then I would have to get another guitar and get familiar with it. I went to the luggage office where the representative asked me to go to the oversized luggage area to look for my guitar, which I did three different times. No bass!

I went back and filled out a missing bag report. Then I realized that I didn't have the address of the hotel that I was staying at. I told this story to the customs person and asked if they would let me out to drop off my suitcase with the guy who was giving me a ride, and then let me back inside the customs area so that I could give the proper hotel address to the luggage counter lady. I did this, filled out my paperwork and then was taken to the hotel.

Today, the airline brought me my bass, but busted up the flightcase, absolutely opened it up. This is hard to do and so they really must have done a job on the case to make this happen. But the guitar was fine and I actually trembled a little bit when I got it back in my arms. I just LOVE this bass and it was a real joy to hold it again. I wasn't sure that I would see it again.

The ironic part of this story is that Dennis Chambers showed up a couple of hours ago from a flight from Japan without his luggage. The airlines lost it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True story! Ah, the joys of touring on the road. Goes with the territory, I guess.

Ciao for now.

Jeff


That night Dennis Chambers showed up and he told me that the airlines lost his luggage. He didn't even have a clean pair of sox to wear.

 

[Commreman]

Thanks Jeff! I'll e mail Rich and ask the question.

That is quite a horror story. Thank God you and your bass are safe and sound.

 

[Mastermold]

Charlie Banacos sent out a statement about how he is doing and he ended his email this way:

"Please continue your prayers for me and keep practicing your usual 10 hours a day. It's nice to see real musicians that do music for music's sake."

THIS is the real way to improve. Of course I wouldn't necessarilty practice 10 hours a day because this can be a bit much for some guys. But a couple of hours isn't too much to ask for. His statement that it was nice to see real musicians that do music for music's sake is a fantastic thing for him to say. I've been saying literally the same thing for months and I never knew that Charlie would utter the exact same words. Neither did he know that I've been saying these words. The fact is, real musicians are people who pursue music, not music entertainment, not musical employment. You learn music for its own sake, because it IS. Music isn't easy. If is was, then everybody could do it.

I invite as many of you who will read this, not ask questions such as what I mean by "real music" or "real musicians". You know exactly what I mean, but some act confused, which tells me that some aren't interested in practicing good stuff. 100% of anybody who is serious works out how to improve. Charlie knows this. So do all the great teachers in the world. Herb Pomeroy, John LaPorta, Gary Burton, Bill Dobbins, Jamey To learn how to play well, YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER IT! There is more majesty in a 6 year old violin student struggling with Mozart than there is in a generation of bass players learning licks and thinking themselves musically capable. If you love music, then learn it for its own sake. All the great ones know what I am talking about. Thank God for people like Charlie Banacos.

I think I understand what you mean by "real musicians." Most players I know -- myself included -- are what I would perhaps call "recreational players." We play well enough to gig, some even make a living at it, but never reach the skill level you and your colleagues have. Whether it's for lack of talent or devotion (or both), I suspect most players fall into this category. Personally, I make my living outside of music, and with work and family (3 kids!) I can't devote more than an hour a day to practice but still strive to improve where I can. I know I'll never reach the level you have in mind for being "real" but I love music nevertheless and playing for its own sake, and I'm glad for every opportunity I can take advantage of to improve. That's why TB is so great, and why I appreciate your perspective, because it's good advice whether or not people take advantage of it.

 

[Trapezius]

Hey Jeff!

With all due respect.. How the **** can you not have a backup bass? I can't imagine having only one bass if I break a string onstage, it's stolen, broken or whatever. That would be a major crisis for me, unless I already have a backup I'm familiar with. Why not just own two of the same bass? Set it up like your main bass, play it every now and then...

I just think you're taking too big a risk. I hope Dean reads this and ships a few basses your way.

Anyway, enjoy Italy, it's a great place. The food, the wine, the women...

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Again, nobody, not one person even could find a flaw with my question, "What is best learned in time?" Nobody could answer this because there is no answer. If this philosophy applies to EVERYTHING, then why is music exempt?

Flying.

You cannot learn to fly an airplane out of time. Take-off and landing must be learned in time. One might argue that there are flight simulators for that (larger aircraft), but even then, the simulations are in time.

Where's my prize?

But I do agree, music is best learned out of time as is with most other things.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Flying.

You cannot learn to fly an airplane out of time. Take-off and landing must be learned in time. One might argue that there are flight simulators for that (larger aircraft), but even then, the simulations are in time.

Where's my prize?

But I do agree, music is best learned out of time as is with most other things.

not really.......much is done out of time in ground school before you even see an airplane or simulator

 

[JeffBerlin]

I think I understand what you mean by "real musicians." Most players I know -- myself included -- are what I would perhaps call "recreational players." We play well enough to gig, some even make a living at it, but never reach the skill level you and your colleagues have. Whether it's for lack of talent or devotion (or both), I suspect most players fall into this category. Personally, I make my living outside of music, and with work and family (3 kids!) I can't devote more than an hour a day to practice but still strive to improve where I can. I know I'll never reach the level you have in mind for being "real" but I love music nevertheless and playing for its own sake, and I'm glad for every opportunity I can take advantage of to improve. That's why TB is so great, and why I appreciate your perspective, because it's good advice whether or not people take advantage of it.

You may have done something quite good here by your honest assessment of your musical interests. You never said that you donj't like to play. But you defined your time and interestn in playing bass making you a "Recreratuinal Player", somebody who doesn't take musid that seriously, but who doesn't dismiss it's importance in your life either. Is this an accurate description? Because if it is, they you have just liberated an entire generation from trying to talk as if they were in the Victor Wooten area of bass accomplishment. Golfers into the millions fall in the recreatioanl area and who do not seem to mine. But if you even suggest to some bass players that they really arenìt that serious about playing, they will shoot you for this overload of truthful information.

Embrace your recreational status because it can be as temporary as walking from one location to another, you just have to do some things to make the move. Most don't make the move, they TALK about making the move and why some guys who did make the move into another area of music are now worthy of criticism. Where you are in music is always a tenuous position, a few business decisions and a year's worht of great lessons and you are suddnely anything but a recreational player.

Meanwhile congratulations for identifying the neighborhood that you live in because if you aren't happy with this "address" you have the power to change your address at any time.