I agree! if one finds a bass body tht feels great, then 75% of the instrument's requirements have been filled. The other 25%, that of sound or desire of particular tuning pegs or bridge, can be acquired for a couple of hundred dollars. Result: a custom designed bass with a great neck and your choice of tone.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3
- Thread starter john turner
- Start date
- Status
I agree! if one finds a bass body tht feels great, then 75% of the instrument's requirements have been filled. The other 25%, that of sound or desire of particular tuning pegs or bridge, can be acquired for a couple of hundred dollars. Result: a custom designed bass with a great neck and your choice of tone.
My manner of learing is to do things specifically, that is, one at a time. I would suggest just playing one exercise in 12 keys and then moving on to the next one. This isn't written in stone, but it gives one the opportunity to learn well that which they are practicing.
You would do well to find a bass whos neck and body feel great to you. You can always buy new pick-ups (if you wish) and change the tone.
Finally, for everybody reading this: Take your bass to a luthier and have them straighten the neck and adjust the bridge pieces if you don't know how to do this yourself. Let the luthier teach you how to work your bass and you can adjust it yourself later. Don't go to the store salesman to do this, but go to a qualified luthier. Often, there is a guy at the store where you bought your bass.
I also recommend that everybody lower their string gauges. If you play a four stringed bass like me then you probably use .45 .65. 85. 105. I recommened that you go to .40 .60 .80.100. You will not BELIEVE how much easier it will be to play your bass with these slightly lighter strings. My brand are DR Strings, the Lo-Riders. I love those strings because they are simple and they feel great under my hands. Nothing special, just great sounding strings. I have never believed in "special" strings, that is, different alloys, colors, or what have you. Plus, I really, really really don't like steel strings. For me, nickel strings, simple, to the point, are the best generic choice for anybody who wishes to get something excellent without complication. I don't like complication in the equipment that I use.
I never have to even consider being the "best" bass player in my area. No matter how hard I work, how much I practice, how many schools I attend, guys like Roy, Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, and the thousands of other bass players in Nashville will be too far ahead of me to catch up. Heck, there are probably little kids who can play better than I'll ever play.
My goal when I started playing was to be able to "play". Meaning, play in church. Play at a local coffee house. And most of all, play because I enjoy playing. Of course I want to get better, and I push myself hard to do so, but I never have any delusions that I'll ever be the "best" bass player I know. The best bass compliment anyone could give to me is, "He's a heck of a nice guy who is a decent bass player". Can't ask for more than that.
My goal when I started playing was to be able to "play". Meaning, play in church. Play at a local coffee house. And most of all, play because I enjoy playing. Of course I want to get better, and I push myself hard to do so, but I never have any delusions that I'll ever be the "best" bass player I know. The best bass compliment anyone could give to me is, "He's a heck of a nice guy who is a decent bass player". Can't ask for more than that.
I, with much tweaking of the truss rod and bridge saddles, finally got the low action I desired without getting fret buzz. What I'm curious about is the perceived change in string tension. The strings feel more taught to me now even though the action is as low as I had it before(when it was buzzing). I relaxed the truss rod and adjusted the saddles accordingly and the buzz is gone. I quite like the taught feel but I'm just wondering if there's some sort of explanation or if I'm beginning to display signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.
P.s I'm using 0.40-0.100 already.
Before I started playing bass I played guitar. I started playing at the age of 18 (I'm 56 now), and I've been playing for 38 years now (well, not so much guitar lately!). After several years of playing I came to the realization that there was really no such thing as "better than me" or "worse than me", just that some were further along the road than I was, and some were further behind than me. I figured that since Eric Clapton put his pants on in the morning the same way I do he's not any better than I am, just, to paraphrase one of his songs, further on up the road. As musicians, as everything else in life, we are the sum total of our experiences, and that's all we'll ever be. It's simply a question of where we are on the journey. I don't ever want to say that Jeff Berlin or Roy Vogt are better bassists than I am, more knowledgable, absolutely; further up the road, so far up I can't even see them with binoculars! And I must say that they've been extremely gracious in sharing their experience with us here at TB. But better, well, let's just say they put their pants on just like you or me!
I recently finished reading Zen Guitar, by Philip Toshio Sudo. As the title implies, it applies Zen teachings to guitar playing, but the teachings apply to bass, as well. A great read and I highly recommend it.
Even to write a children's book, you have to know the words. Learn the "words" of music and you might be surprised just how fast you rise through those ranks that you are talking about.
Who knows! It is what it is and for us, it really doesn't matter why unless of course you end up on Jeopardy (I'll take Tension of Bass Strings for a thousand Alex!)
People are no better than other people. But, oh Yes! Some bass players are better than you just as there are chefs who are way better than me. But, the trick of this is to inspire you to join their elitist club, and to do this, you have some work to get to. Absolutely, there is a reality about ability up to that point that art becomes the subective term to describe it. Is Dave Holland a better upright bass player than the guy who played with Elvis? You are darned right he is!
Jeff,
What is your view of fretboard graphs to show chord tones scales etc? They had a very limited use when I was taking regular lessons, but were used. Guys like Jimmy Bruno use them (I never studied with him but know some who have). The limitations are obvious, some exercises take you inbetween the obvious patterns etc.
Others, like Pat Martino would tell you where the position the line is to be played, but it is written in standard notation only.
What is your view of fretboard graphs to show chord tones scales etc? They had a very limited use when I was taking regular lessons, but were used. Guys like Jimmy Bruno use them (I never studied with him but know some who have). The limitations are obvious, some exercises take you inbetween the obvious patterns etc.
Others, like Pat Martino would tell you where the position the line is to be played, but it is written in standard notation only.
The goal in music is to play musically. Graphs can't take the place of music. Also, if you ask Jimmy Bruno if he learned via using graphs, I feel quite certain that he will say no. I just don't subscribe to methods that take the place of THE perfect method that exists, music itself!
But, that's just me!
When studying chord melody and theory of building chords there were no graphs, however when learning to comp I was to memorize the four inversions on a certain string group and the order of the chord tones. You would then raise or lower any note to alter the chord, this was the only time graphs were ever used by that teacher, and ONLY for the basic 7th chords.
It does seem the best way to learn is reading in the various positions.
One thing I am noticing in your discussions, is teachers deviating from the way they were actually taught! Some of this may be the fault of various editors and publishers though.
Oh, absolutely it is the fault of editors and publishers. They are editors and publishers and have no clue about what good music academia is or where it comes from. They are barely players anymore!
I am also not convinced that a lot of teachers actually learned music. I say this because many rarely talk about it. But, they do talk about performance, something that doesn't require instruction. They don't offer musical principles as much as I feel that they should because they don't know what they are. And they always almost without fail, they put a metronome into their academic setting which sabotauges the learning experience right from the first click.
Some players are fans of some guys and admire some musicians because of their playing reputations. But, being a fan of a musician is almost a guarantee that your development as a music will be halted if you simply go with the opinions of the guys who you love to listen to about how to learn. There are several guys and they are on several instruments.
Many of these guys are self-taught. They didn't learn music, but they learned their instruments through jamming and playing. Because they decided to offer instruction in a subject that they didn't research nor had any time involved with themselves (musical content), their focus is almost entirely on performance principles, not academic ones. Hence the terms, "groove" "pocket" chops" all done with a metronome.
I would add to this that not only string guage but string type can make a significant difference in your tone. Some players like flatwound strings, for example, because of their percussive response and tension, but not all flats are the same. I can take the exact same bass (and I've done this) and string it with LaBella flats, then Fender flats, then Thomastik Infeld flats, then DR flats, then D'Addario Chromes, etc. and the tone will be different. Experimenting with different strings can be a fun way to change your bass tone for the better without spending a grip.
And as for roundwounds, I'm also a fan of DR nickle Lo-Riders but their Sunbeams are nice too, less tension than the Lo-Riders but very warm.
I don't know the answer to this either, but I'm always tinkering with my basses and have sometimes noticed perceived changes in the string tension that I can't explain. I guess in the end you got a good result, so just enjoy it?
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
It's perfectly legal to revise one's approach-if you've learned in TAB, you can always quit/change. I was taught Simandl on URB because that's all that was available at the time, even though Rabbath fingerings and positions make more sense to me and feel like Home now.
Learning Music and also how to teach it is always a Work in Progress, IMO.
As far as TAB, etc., sadly it's REALLY entrenched in Music Method Press and it's almost impossible to get a book published without it (I even had to TAB Steve Bailey's and Victor Wooten's lines in Bass Extremes-which I find completely bizarre).
At least in Teach Me Bass Guitar one of my lessons is how to totally get rid of the TAB using an example from Bach's Cello Suite #1 in various keys. But the Publisher insisted I put TAB in the rest of the course because it's everywhere. TAB will increase a book's sales by 40% (this from a Very Important Person at Warner Brothers Music).
I think I'm going to write a "how to read and get rid of TAB reliance" method and see if I can get someone to publish it.
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
You're probably right, but I can always self-publish like Bruce Gertz has done on some of his stuff. Anthony Vitti has done this as well. Smaller numbers are OK if the entire operation is scaled accordingly, something MAJ and RWM Records have both figured out
Incidently, I will be in Chicago on April 13th at Durty Nellie's, 180 W. Smith Street
Palatine, Illinois. I am a sideman on a gig for Gannin Arnold, a simply marvelous guitarist from Los Angeles. The drummer is Simon Philips who used to play with Jeff Beck. I have never played this club before, but it sounds like a fun hit. So, if you live within a few miles of Chicago and you are free, come on over!
Palatine, Illinois. I am a sideman on a gig for Gannin Arnold, a simply marvelous guitarist from Los Angeles. The drummer is Simon Philips who used to play with Jeff Beck. I have never played this club before, but it sounds like a fun hit. So, if you live within a few miles of Chicago and you are free, come on over!
You're probably right, but I can always self-publish like Bruce Gertz has done on some of his stuff. Anthony Vitti has done this as well. Smaller numbers are OK if the entire operation is scaled according, something MAJ and RWM Records have both figured out
This is my joke for guys who actually offer content to the majority of musicians. I've long ago concluded that many bass players don't want good musical content, or, at least, may not aware of what it is, and so, it'll sell dozens.
I also made up a joke that goes, "My son came to me and told me wanted to be a doctor. I told him that he should also take up metal guitar playing so that he would have something to fall back on in case this doctor thing didn't work out.
- Status
