Jobs that don't allow you to support yourself

[Ericman197]

Yeah, Ambulance driver pay is so low it just astonishes me. Especially all the time it takes to actually get an EMT cert. Never understood how they got away with paying their employees that.

Probably supply and demand. I know a lot of kids my age (high school to college+) who are involved in different aspects of EMS. Some volunteer, others get paid. Of course there are different levels of experience/certification but pay is probably going to be on the low side if you have so many people who want to do your job.

You do lifeguarding right? Isn't that a similar situation? I would think you'd get a lot of competition from high school and college students who are willing to do it for pretty low pay.

 

[Vince S.]

Probably supply and demand. I know a lot of kids my age (high school to college+) who are involved in different aspects of EMS. Some volunteer, others get paid. Of course there are different levels of experience/certification but pay is probably going to be on the low side if you have so many people who want to do your job.

That usually holds true for EMT-Basics, but not paramedics. EMT-B is usually a 6 month course, and I would say the majority are probably volunteer. There are also plenty of college kids who work commercial EMS as a part time job. Medics usually go through about 2 years of training plus hospital rotations and precepting before they get cut loose.

The main problem is the lack of representation and cohesion in the EMS community. In a lot of places, EMS is merged (read: taken over) by fire departments who need the funding since EMS brings in cash from patient billing. There is still the debate as to whether EMS should be considered allied health alongside RNs, PA-Cs and MDs, or a branch of public safety alongside police and fire.

I'm personally one of those EMTs who believes that fire should have nothing to do with EMS. You don't see police departments fighting fires, or firefighters enforcing laws. It makes no logical sense to have a practice that has nothing to do with the fire service under it's command. In many fire based EMS systems, EMS is usually given little or no attention, and many firefighters want nothing to do with EMS. As such, patient care ultimately suffers.

I believe the best EMS model is the stand-alone, third branch public safety concept, with it's own funding and attention from municipal government, and uniformed work wages and benefits.

Unfortunately, there are only a sparse handful of EMS departments like that in the country. I can probably name only two in my home state.

 

[Bard2dbone]

What we mostly have up here (D/FW area, about 150 miles or so from Austin) are third service providers that compete for the opportunity to get the contract allowing them to manage the EMS services for a city or several cities. Then, once they've gotten the contract, they can basically never achieve the standards required to keep the contract and end up losing it before it is due to expire.

So we work like city employees, function as city employees, represent the city like city employees...and get paid a third as much as the city employees. Sure. That sounds fair.

And yes, there are a lot of volunteer paramedics. They are generally people who got into EMS for the same reasons I did, then found out how bad the money was and changed fields. But being a realtor or accountant just isn't making it for them, so they do a couple of free shifts a month as a paramedic, just to keep their certs current. My old keyboard player was a software engineer who did a volunteer shift a week as a paramedic.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Probably supply and demand. I know a lot of kids my age (high school to college+) who are involved in different aspects of EMS. Some volunteer, others get paid. Of course there are different levels of experience/certification but pay is probably going to be on the low side if you have so many people who want to do your job.

You do lifeguarding right? Isn't that a similar situation? I would think you'd get a lot of competition from high school and college students who are willing to do it for pretty low pay.

Actually my lifeguard job pays almost as much as my teaching job, if you break it down by an hourly rate. You have think that there aren't very many people that can do what we do. EMT's, that can swim like competitive swimmers with a knowledge of the ocean, it's currents, and how to operate the specialized equipment and management systems we run. From the outside it appears pretty simple, but in actuality, it's a fairly complex job. This is why it pays well. No benefits though. Since most guys are seasonable, the city won't spring for it.

 

[iamlowsound]

Actually my lifeguard job pays almost as much as my teaching job, if you break it down by an hourly rate. You have think that there aren't very many people that can do what we do. EMT's, that can swim like competitive swimmers with a knowledge of the ocean, it's currents, and how to operate the specialized equipment and management systems we run. From the outside it appears pretty simple, but in actuality, it's a fairly complex job. This is why it pays well. No benefits though. Since most guys are seasonable, the city won't spring for it.

Being a lifeguard at the beach is a lot different than being a lifeguard at a pool.

lowsound

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Being a lifeguard at the beach is a lot different than being a lifeguard at a pool.

lowsound

A lot different.

 

[iamlowsound]

A lot different.

Anyone that knows CPR and can float can be a lifeguard at a pool.

lowsound

 

[bassguppy]

$14 and $18 an hour measly?

Am I missing something?

That depends. If you're like me and live in the San Francisco bay area $18.00 an hour will get you nowhere. With the cost of housing, gas, utilities, insurance, auto, food that $18.00 won't be enough. Living in other parts of the country where the rents are not insane you can do better BUT, for example a customer service rep in SF will make $18.00 an hour (if they're lucky) that same rep will only make $9.00-$10.00 an hour in other places.

Sadly, $18.00 per hour jobs will be a thing of the past for the less educated and some 4 year degree holders as well (it's already there in a lot of career fields). Where I was from originally you could graduate high school, get a job in a local factory and make a decent wage where you could work hard & do OK for yourself (afford a small home, car, pay the bills, etc.). Middle class used to be $35-$50 thousand, now you're still called middle class with the same money but you have nowhere near the financial clout you had previously.

 

[bassguppy]

EMS providers make a whopping $11.00 to start in the Bay Area...that won't pay even half the rent.


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that's pitiful.

 

[Bard2dbone]

I made $6.25 to start.

 

[Depth_Charge]

Yeah, but mostly that means 'find a different profession'.

I got into EMS to save lives. But saving lives is apparently not a valuable skill set. I have had bosses tell me "Lot's of people do your job for free. Why should we pay you big money?" Big money is apparently defined as more than poverty level.

So all those volunteer fire departments out there are screwing me over, it seems.

I would say we can't all be CPA's, but maybe I should have. Then I'd make good money, at least. But I don't think my karmic balance would be as healthy as it is.

I have a theory on low paid jobs that have high value to the community. If they paid a great wage, they would stop attracting people who actually cared about doing the job well and would start attracting people in it for quick buck and both the service quality and staff turnover would be a lot worse. Probably wrong but it's a theory I like.

I work a 37.5 hour week for a government/statutory authority type agency in IT Service Delivery. I get about $27 an hour before tax, or roughly $54000 a year, and with my partners pension and the large family tax breaks we get, we are still stuggling to pay off our mortgage and bills and maintain quality of life.

Because I am classed a public officer, if we want to work outside the organisation we have to put in forms to ensure it doesn't conflict with works interests. I had to tell them about being in a band and get it signed off, because you know land registration processes are such a popular topic for songwriters or I might divulge secrets between cover songs. . .

 

[Bard2dbone]

I have a theory on low paid jobs that have high value to the community. If they paid a great wage, they would stop attracting people who actually cared about doing the job well and would start attracting people in it for quick buck and both the service quality and staff turnover would be a lot worse. Probably wrong but it's a theory I like.[snip]

I don't think what I do has a high value to my community. If it did, I would be paid better. The fact that medics aren't paid well means that keeping people alive isn't important. After all there are new ones born every day.

 

[FuturePrimitive]

I'm personally one of those EMTs who believes that fire should have nothing to do with EMS. You don't see police departments fighting fires, or firefighters enforcing laws. It makes no logical sense to have a practice that has nothing to do with the fire service under it's command. In many fire based EMS systems, EMS is usually given little or no attention, and many firefighters want nothing to do with EMS. As such, patient care ultimately suffers.

I disagree with this completely. I've volunteered in 2 fire departments, one with integrated EMS, and one without. Guess which one had a serious lack of team work between EMS and Fire? Guess which one had longer average response times for joint EMS/fire calls?

The reason EMS and Fire are so closely linked is because their roles are essentially the same. You're both there to save lives. It's quite unusual to have no injuries on a fire ground, even if it's just a firefighter who gets a little overheated or exhausted. Likewise it's very common for EMS to require fire on scene for extrication or manpower/lifting assistance.

Now, this isn't to say that pro/career EMS providers are paid a fair wage. I absolutely agree with you that the pitiful payscale for EMS is ridiculous. However, I think the solution is to move EMS even closer to the fire service, in fact integrate it completely so that medics could join the IAFF and get a decent wage. (Now I've probably really pissed off a bunch of firefighters!)

 

[scottice]

...I think the solution is to move EMS even closer to the fire service, in fact integrate it completely so that medics could join the IAFF and get a decent wage. (Now I've probably really pissed off a bunch of firefighters!)

Very interesting proposition! I kinda' like that idea.

 

[Sundogue]

The whole idea of competition is fear based, and really archaic.

I'm finding more and more that there is abundance for everything and the more that "competing" companies and small businesses work together, the more everyone benefits.

You'd think it wouldn't, but it does.

I work with two art groups and three galleries that used to compete with one another. After a few lectures and workshops I gave, and meetings with all of them, they are now all helping each other out...and now ALL are way more successful than they were than when they were competing with one another.

I know of three local businesses (different areas of business) that not only allow employees to take side jobs in the same field, they actually encourage it. Those businesses' profits have increased by allowing their employees to get out on their own and promote themselves and the companies they work for. It also allowed the companies to identify those employees that excelled on their own, but were being stifled within the company. Those employees ended up with promotions and better pay.

Businesses (like individuals) would do do much better if they stopped being so afraid.

 

[bassguppy]

I don't think what I do has a high value to my community. If it did, I would be paid better. The fact that medics aren't paid well means that keeping people alive isn't important. After all there are new ones born every day.

I don't know if I could do that job. A friend of mine works for a local EMS agency & he says 1 of the worst things of the job are the smells. Nothing like the odor of an infection.

He once moved a severely overweight man from a chair that he had been sitting in it for a couple weeks. HE NEVER GOT OUT IN THE TWO WEEKS. He said the man and chair had maggots on them. Those guys need to make triple to do that crap.

 

[aborgman]

However, in both cases these people trained to do these jobs, this IS their job skill. It's impossible to get full-time work in either one of those fields, and yet you can't get two jobs in the same field--even if that is your skill and all you can do.

Then they screwed up and picked the wrong job. It sucks, but it's reality. If you choose a field with bad financial prospects, you reap what you sow.

 

[aborgman]

Since when is it a businesses authority to govern what you can do outside of work as long as it isn't illegal and you do your job?

When you sign an employment contract giving them that authority.

 

[aborgman]

Yeah, but mostly that means 'find a different profession'.

Yep... met a lot of buggy whip manufacturers, farriers, or elevator operators lately? Reality is that we have to make choices.

I got into EMS to save lives. But saving lives is apparently not a valuable skill set. I have had bosses tell me "Lot's of people do your job for free. Why should we pay you big money?" Big money is apparently defined as more than poverty level.

Saving lives (like any other skill set) is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it - no more, no less.

I would agree that it is sad that people don't attach a higher value to it (along with quite a lot of other things the public undervalues) - but it's reality.

I would say we can't all be CPA's, but maybe I should have. Then I'd make good money, at least. But I don't think my karmic balance would be as healthy as it is.

You choose to trade monetary benefit for karmic. So be it.

 

[rzm61]

Since when is it a businesses authority to govern what you can do outside of work as long as it isn't illegal and you do your job?

Annoying isn't it?

It's an invasion of privacy that for some reason is accepted.