John Paul Jones and Acoustic 360

[Buster Brown]

Well, I can't sit here and explain the theory behind the "folded 18"...but there is one thing that I remember for CERTAIN...

The 18 would literally make your guts rumble the farther back you were from the cab.....Now, as to how that works? who cares! But work, it did!!

 

[mccartneyman]

Could you explain how that works?

What I meant was, a folded horn projects. As good as the 360sounded up close, it sounded better in the crowd in small venues. It was hard to tell on stage exactly how loud you were because so much of the sound went right under you if you stood close to the cab.

With cabinet technology having advanced over the last 40 years, I don't see the need for a folded horn cab in a small venue. I thought the 406 2x15 Acoustic cab with the vent in the middle was a better setup for small clubs. Sunn also used to make a 1x15 cab where the speaker faced forward but there was a scoop. Stack two of these and the sound was astounding.

 

[DaZombieWoof]

All sorts of stories of guys playing clubs on a tight stage rattling bottles off the bar and cussing they can't hear squat on stage. The available bass rigs of the day were dubious. Real revelation seeing Cream Reunion concert with Jack Bruce using modern gear so you could truly hear what he was doing. SVT seems to be only real survivor of that era in volume production.

 

[sailri]

If you are still looking for an Acoustic 360, here's a CL add for someone selling FOUR of them:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You can also try this Google Search term:
Site:craigslist.org "Acoustic 360"
(Copy and paste it as written into your Google search field)

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I saw a piece somewhere on JPJ's acoustic rig. The comments that came out about it were that they couldn't believe how loud it was with only 200 watts. They pumped that same amp output through some other cabs and never came close to the SPL's they got out of that 18" folded horn enclosure. Evidently it wasn't your normal straightforward folded horn design. Wish I could find that piece again!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

What I meant was, a folded horn projects. As good as the 360sounded up close, it sounded better in the crowd in small venues. It was hard to tell on stage exactly how loud you were because so much of the sound went right under you if you stood close to the cab.

With cabinet technology having advanced over the last 40 years, I don't see the need for a folded horn cab in a small venue. I thought the 406 2x15 Acoustic cab with the vent in the middle was a better setup for small clubs. Sunn also used to make a 1x15 cab where the speaker faced forward but there was a scoop. Stack two of these and the sound was astounding.

Back in the early 70's I was playing in a traveling nightclub group and my blackface Fender Bassman couldn't keep up. kept blowing those Jensen 12" speakers. We were playing a place called "Little Bo's" in Lincoln, Nebraska which was a big University of Nebraska hangout. Held about 600 people or so. Picked up a Standell bass amp there at Hospe Music. It was not a big amplifier. It had two 15" speakers 4 ports alongside them. Head was a pre-amp and speakers were a powered cabinet with 250 watts rms.

First night I set it on 5 and could hear myself over the Super Beatle Vox amps the keyboard and guitar player were using for the first time. Sounded fine to me but was absolutely killing everyone's ears out front. Had to pull it back down to 3. Ended up always setting that amp as far back as I could on stage. If you were within about 10-15 feet of it you had no idea how loud it really sounded. Needed to be out front because the thing projected so well.

I typically ran it at 3 indoors and could actually crank it up to 5 when we played outside gigs. Stand in front of it and you couldn't hear it very well even thought the air coming through the ports would be flapping your pant legs. Move in front far enough and everything just sort of blossomed out. So it doesn't surprise me one bit that the 360 sounded better out in the audience than it did onstage.

Dan

 

[seamonkey]

What I meant was, a folded horn projects. As good as the 360sounded up close, it sounded better in the crowd in small venues. It was hard to tell on stage exactly how loud you were because so much of the sound went right under you if you stood close to the cab.

With cabinet technology having advanced over the last 40 years, I don't see the need for a folded horn cab in a small venue. I thought the 406 2x15 Acoustic cab with the vent in the middle was a better setup for small clubs. Sunn also used to make a 1x15 cab where the speaker faced forward but there was a scoop. Stack two of these and the sound was astounding.

Low bass is omni directional.
Mids become directional.
Mids are really what most people ears are sensitive to. Even a folded horn has some minimal mids coming out, and these are what shoots by your knees. Any speaker needs to have the dispersion of the mids to hear it well. Some versions of folded horns include a front mounted mid driver that has better mid dispersion than the folded horn part.

 

[Stu_Bass]

Acoutic 360 became A.M.P. which became Gibson which is now Thunderfunk. Just something to think about. Eden and SWR also evolved from the 360.

 

[Buster Brown]

I saw a piece somewhere on JPJ's acoustic rig. The comments that came out about it were that they couldn't believe how loud it was with only 200 watts. They pumped that same amp output through some other cabs and never came close to the SPL's they got out of that 18" folded horn enclosure. Evidently it wasn't your normal straightforward folded horn design. Wish I could find that piece again!

Nah...it was a "standard" cab, but that was just the way they were...

I currently have and use a 370 amp and, in all seriousness, it is LOUD as all get out...but again, that was the way they were built back in the "dark ages"....God! I miss those days!!

 

[ZiggyDude]

The only real reason to use a big amp is if you are not in the PA (unless the stage volume is insane :-> ). With the two acts I am in – our PA is really for vocals only. If we are at a place that really requires a full system we rent. One guitar player goes through the PA also as he does not tote an amp. In all fairness it makes sense. After all – why haul two bass bins, crossover, wires, second power amp, and the time and crap to set it all up when I can do it by just dragging in a bigger box? Now – in all fairness I don’t mind the extra work and do drive a small pickup truck (Ranger).

I have ongoing experience with 3 of the rigs being mentioned. I use the 371, the 406 mentioned by another, and sometimes the 6x10 SVT. They are all good weapons but fit the right job. Usually the 406 gets to go to the gig. With two modern 400 watt RMS Eminence in it – it can be lethal. But for outdoor gigs or a high up stage – the 371 projects the low end better. The Ampeg is for smaller rooms and needs to be set up on the floor (or lose rumble). The 371 also “Thumps” the stage floor a lot more – the other guys tend to get a happy smile when I use it. The tone of the 406 is better up close to the critical ear – but in a large room the rumble impact of the W bin wins. Plus – only other bass players are going to notice tone and they should be someplace working!

So – different strokes for different folks….

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[mccartneyman]

Back in the early 70's I was playing in a traveling nightclub group and my blackface Fender Bassman couldn't keep up. kept blowing those Jensen 12" speakers. We were playing a place called "Little Bo's" in Lincoln, Nebraska which was a big University of Nebraska hangout. Held about 600 people or so. Picked up a Standell bass amp there at Hospe Music. It was not a big amplifier. It had two 15" speakers 4 ports alongside them. Head was a pre-amp and speakers were a powered cabinet with 250 watts rms.

Dan

Standel made a great amp, too. I used to run the 2x15 with the head built in. Later I added two 2x15 powered cabs and it killed.

 

[Buster Brown]

I'm like you Ziggy....all of these amps (Ampeg - Acoustic) are a bear to cart around...although, like you, I cart mine in a Dodge Dakota...but, after going the MarkBass route, I am glad to have returned to the big rigs...

Now, don't get me wrong...I absolutely LOVE my CMD121P..and I'm serious...I LOVE it...When we hold practice, it is so easy to grab and go....but nothing and I mean nothing, replaces the THUMP from a "full grown" rig!

The other thing that "sort of" irks me is the notion of many of the "young bloods" that a big rig is "too heavy" to fool with...C'mon guys!! Quit woosing out! Start lifting a few weights!! Eat a sandwich and put on a couple of pounds!! You don't know what you're missing!!

 

[D.M.N.]

I recognize that CL listing. I can see the hendrix posters in the background. That guy has posted pictures of his collection over on the Unofficial ACC forums, and it's incredible.......If I toured or had the money, I'd buy all four of those for my backline, and blast the skin off audience member's faces......

 

[ZiggyDude]

Buster is so right! The young ones are complaining about even carrying a 4x10! There is a "Big Cabs" thread and people were showing a 1x15! It is sad to break it to them that a 4x10 is not even a half stack - but a quarter stack. A full blown SVT is two of the 8x10 cabs.

For practice I use a little Ampeg BA112. Single 12 kickback. If the band is loud an old Acoustic 122 single 15 combo (with a modern Eminence) and that sucker is loud. But you can not change the laws of physics - big thump requires moving big air.

As far as the Led Zep sound - probably any decent amp can sound like it - but if you want the people to hear it farther away and feel it - either the PA or the stage amp needs to be big.

"Whole Lotta Love" is on the radio right now - yeah - you need serious air.......

 

[Buster Brown]

Buster is so right! The young ones are complaining about even carrying a 4x10! There is a "Big Cabs" thread and people were showing a 1x15! It is sad to break it to them that a 4x10 is not even a half stack - but a quarter stack. A full blown SVT is two of the 8x10 cabs.

For practice I use a little Ampeg BA112. Single 12 kickback. If the band is loud an old Acoustic 122 single 15 combo (with a modern Eminence) and that sucker is loud. But you can not change the laws of physics - big thump requires moving big air.

As far as the Led Zep sound - probably any decent amp can sound like it - but if you want the people to hear it farther away and feel it - either the PA or the stage amp needs to be big.

"Whole Lotta Love" is on the radio right now - yeah - you need serious air.......

You know...you DO bring up an interesting point. What the heck is a "good" PA? I mean seriously! We use 4 cabs with 2X15s and horns in each- 6,000 watts with all the little bells and whistles..monitors (both in-ear and floor - I prefer the floor) and STILL, I don't like running bass through the PA...just doesn't seem to go through the mix well....but that's me....guess I'm just too "old school".....

 

[seamonkey]

How do you know it doesn't go through the mix well?
Do you listen to yourself out front where the audience hears you?
Or do you mean just on-stage mix? Do you mean just hearing yourself on-stage?

 

[KramerBassFan]

Buster is so right! The young ones are complaining about even carrying a 4x10! There is a "Big Cabs" thread and people were showing a 1x15! It is sad to break it to them that a 4x10 is not even a half stack - but a quarter stack. A full blown SVT is two of the 8x10 cabs.

For practice I use a little Ampeg BA112. Single 12 kickback. If the band is loud an old Acoustic 122 single 15 combo (with a modern Eminence) and that sucker is loud. But you can not change the laws of physics - big thump requires moving big air.

As far as the Led Zep sound - probably any decent amp can sound like it - but if you want the people to hear it farther away and feel it - either the PA or the stage amp needs to be big.

"Whole Lotta Love" is on the radio right now - yeah - you need serious air.......

Then there's the people who consider a big rig two 12's....

 

[Buster Brown]

How do you know it doesn't go through the mix well?
Do you listen to yourself out front where the audience hears you?
Or do you mean just on-stage mix? Do you mean just hearing yourself on-stage?

Well, what I mean is that out in the audience, when (on rare occasion) I have gone through the PA...I get complaints that it isn't "cutting through"...maybe "muddy"....AND, I don't care for the way it get's back to me through the monitors...(mine's a 12" AL).

I think that my problem is that I am OLD....

I still prefer a time when PAs were for VOCALS.....

 

[ZiggyDude]

I use a radio - all the time. Get the best you can find. Walk out and hear it yourself. I can tell you now that it opens an entire new world. When you get about 20 to 30 feet out - life just changes. When i was in MLB it sounded sooooo good on stage that I was stunned just how bad out front. I use it not just to check settings and tones from bass to bass (I use 4 every night) - but also the room. Not to mention you can hear all the other crap from vocals to other instruments. So - when I say that I "Know" - I do.

And - it is great to flirt!!!!!!

 

[mark107]

I have to go against the grain here, and say that I always thought the 360 sounded horrible. It was LOUD, and that's why it got used. Why was it so loud? Because, in spite of having an 18 in it, it has no real low end. It's all mids. Sort of like a huge transistor radio. I saw this amp in use in countless concerts when I was a kid (late 60's, early 70's). It ALWAYS sounded like crap (as did every transistor amp from that period). If there were several bands on the bill, the one with the 360 always had the worst bass sound. It was mainly used by the ultra loud bands, for the aforementioned reason. But tonally, it was always lousy.

Keep in mind that back in those days, you could hear the bass amp coming off the stage. We're not talking DI into a PA sound here.