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John Paul Jones and Acoustic 360

#141
There is a lower mid range that needs EQ out - (unless your into that).

In situations like that you also wonder the rest of the gear. In the 70s I had the Cerwin Vega version of the 301 and a Traynor head, later went solid state with a PeaVey Mark IV everyone started using in the 80s. (That was a nice improvement.) Back then I was using an EB3 - and there was no low end problem. I just read a review by Entwistle that complained that P basses lost the low end when you turned the treble up - so he went to Thunderbirds (and later all sorts of stuff).

I am not doubting your observations - just wondering why so many others had different experiences - so other variables come into play. It would be nice to have a time machine...
 
#142
The first Led Zepplin album, is still a vivid memory for me...we used to hang out and listen to it a lot. It really was a shock to me as a bassist...how funky bass playing could fit into heavy hard rock music. Rick Danko was the other bassist that did so at the time.

JPJ WAS Led Zepplin's mastermind, even though they were all great players. His sound.. I'm reasonably sure they weren't using Acoustic 360's in England in 1969. At least not in a recording studio. He is using a Jazz bass, more than likely...possibly the old P-bass with the tele- style headstock too. Flatwounds! Roundwounds were still in their infancy here, maybe less so in England, but he was a veteran session bassist- traditional tone and feel were something he was accustomed to- This is an important part of his tone...and who knows what set of flats he had on there.

When bands of that era played out live, there weren't very many large amplifiers to choose from. In the U.K., Marshall, Hiwatt, Vox, Sound City, and other amps were originally 50 watts, and the old bass heads were 100 r.m.s.! By today's standards barely adequate for a small club gig! Here in the U.S., we had what? Fifty watt Fender Bassmans, and 100 watt Showmans, early 60- 100 watt Sunns, some early 100 watt Ampegs, and what was imported from Britain, I had a Marshall Major 200 watt head and a 4-15 cabinet, got it in 1971. The live backlines started using the higher powered tube amps like the Sunn 2000S and SVT Ampegs right around that time, '69. It seems like 1969 is the key year here, I had a '69 SVT head, I think it was one of the first made. Legend has it that The Rolling Stones commissioned Ampeg to produce those amps for their touring backline.

The Acoustic 360 was one of the prominent amps in the Woodstock concert, seen in footage, and heard on some of the famous tracks from that concert. I, personally remember hearing some of those live recordings thinking the bass sounded, well, distorted. It may have been operator error, or faulty electronics, but I do remember that. All the 360's I've played, and there were a lot, in backlines, rehearsal studios, and friend's amps- were good amps if you weren't standing too close to them. I also feel that they sound quite different from a 370-371 rig, also an amp I'm quite familiar with.

P.S., I own five folded horn cabinets currently. I love them. The live Zepplin stuff I've heard imho, isn't the sound, or the playing/overdubs and production quality from the recordings...so, therefore...can a really good 'modern' rig, a good Fender jazz bass with flatwounds, and a strong player with a keen ear for tone approximate JPJ's studio sound?

I also have and use- played it at an outdoor show today- an Acoustic B-200 combo...an Acoustic in name and appearance only. I really like the amp, but its not the American made product from the 60's and 70's. I also had a 450 head and a short 106 cabinet with Altec 421-8h's, maybe the best 2-15 I ever had.
 
#143
LHbassist said:
The first Led Zepplin album, is still a vivid memory for me...we used to hang out and listen to it a lot. It really was a shock to me as a bassist...how funky bass playing could fit into heavy hard rock music. Rick Danko was the other bassist that did so at the time. JPJ WAS Led Zepplin's mastermind, even though they were all great players. His sound.. I'm reasonably sure they weren't using Acoustic 360's in England in 1969. At least not in a recording studio. He is using a Jazz bass, more than likely...possibly the old P-bass with the tele- style headstock too. Flatwounds! Roundwounds were still in their infancy here, maybe less so in England, but he was a veteran session bassist- traditional tone and feel were something he was accustomed to- This is an important part of his tone...and who knows what set of flats he had on there.
When bands of that era played out live, there weren't very many large amplifiers to choose from. In the U.K., Marshall, Hiwatt, Vox, Sound City, and other amps were originally 50 watts, and the old bass heads were 100 r.m.s.! By today's standards barely adequate for a small club gig! Here in the U.S., we had what? Fifty watt Fender Bassmans, and 100 watt Showmans, early 60- 100 watt Sunns, some early 100 watt Ampegs, and what was imported from Britain, I had a Marshall Major 200 watt head and a 4-15 cabinet, got it in 1971. The live backlines started using the higher powered tube amps like the Sunn 2000S and SVT ampegs right around that time- seems like 1969 is the key year here, I had a '69 SVT head, I think it was one of the first made. Legend has it that The Rolling Stones commissioned Ampeg to produce those amps for their touring backline. The Acoustic 360 was one of the prominent amps in the Woodstock concert, seen in footage, and heard on some of the famous tracks from that concert. I, personally remember hearing some of those live recordings thinking the bass sounded, well, distorted. It may have been operator error, or faulty electronics, but I do remember that. All the 360's I've played, and there were a lot, in backlines, rehearsal studios, and friend's amps- were good amps if you weren't standing too close to them. I also feel that they sound quite different from a 370-371 rig, also an amp I'm quite familiar with. P.S., I own five folded horn cabinets currently. I love them. The live Zepplin stuff I've heard imho, isn't the sound, or the playing/overdubs and production quality from the recordings...so, therefore...can a really good 'modern' rig, a good Fender jazz bass with flatwounds, and a strong player with a keen ear for tone approximate JPJ's studio sound? I also have and use- played it at an outdoor show today- an Acoustic B-200 combo...an Acoustic in name and appearance only. I really like tha amp, but its not the American made product from the 60's and 70's. I also had a 450 head and a short 106 cabinet with Altec 421-8h's, maybe the best 2-15 I ever had.
Click to expand...

Probably very interesting but sadly almost unreadable without paragraphs. Please hit return occasionally!

Alex
 
#144
I seem to remember JPJ using 2 370's at the Oakland Coliseum in the early 70s. Until a few years ago I owned a 1970 Acoustic 360. I was playing a jam at a small club and let someone else sit in. Up to that point I thought the bass blended well with the band. When I went in to the restroom the bass literally was the only part of the band you could hear. It was painfully loud. I took a break and went outside. Across the street the 360 turned the whole building into a bass amp. The Klipch folded horn design really projected bass better than any other cab I've owned. I used to boost the low mids just a tad with the variamp. I never had it turned up wide open that would have been lethal. The acoustic 360 really shined outdoors. Larry Graham had 4 of them at the Snack Concert and in the nosebleed seats he had the best bass tone I've ever experienced at an outdoor concert. Now if I could just find a 2-12 folded horn ?
 
#145
alexclaber said:
Probably very interesting but sadly almost unreadable without paragraphs. Please hit return occasionally!

Alex
Click to expand...

You know, I spell correctly, use the right grammar, and have a pretty good knowledge of the subject material. Incredible, the one omission- forgetting to hit return... was it really THAT horrible to have to endure that without making a comment about my shortcomings?
 
#146
rumblethump said:
I seem to remember JPJ using 2 370's at the Oakland Coliseum in the early 70s. Until a few years ago I owned a 1970 Acoustic 360. I was playing a jam at a small club and let someone else sit in. Up to that point I thought the bass blended well with the band. When I went in to the restroom the bass literally was the only part of the band you could hear. It was painfully loud. I took a break and went outside. Across the street the 360 turned the whole building into a bass amp. The Klipch folded horn design really projected bass better than any other cab I've owned. I used to boost the low mids just a tad with the variamp. I never had it turned up wide open that would have been lethal. The acoustic 360 really shined outdoors. Larry Graham had 4 of them at the Snack Concert and in the nosebleed seats he had the best bass tone I've ever experienced at an outdoor concert. Now if I could just find a 2-12 folded horn ?
Click to expand...

I have a 2-12 folded horn!
 
#147
LHbassist said:
You know, I spell correctly, use the right grammar, and have a pretty good knowledge of the subject material. Incredible, the one omission- forgetting to hit return... was it really THAT horrible to have to endure that without making a comment about my shortcomings?
Click to expand...

Yes. There's a reason paragraphs exist. They make it easier on the eyes to read things.
 
#149
ihixulu said:
They also organize your thoughts into cohesive units which, chained together, form the narrative flow of your post.

PS, any word on the alleged 360 repro's in the works at the new GC/Acoustic?
Click to expand...

Quite so. A long post with paragraphs appears more organized than one without, because organized writers tend to use them.

Btw, when did the old Acoustic brand end?
 
#154
Has anyone had a chance to see yet what Amps JPJ is using with Grohl and Homme in Them Crooked Vultures recently , like at Lollipopluza :rolleyes: or the post shows in Chicago or whatever? Is he stuck on SWR still? I'm thinking that may change in the near future...just a guess :D

Play On!:bassist:
 
#155
He played on Jimmy Falon with someone not to long ago and i do believe he was using SWR rig . Has anyone checked out danmark radio though? Its on youtube and the latest dvd in black and white . It is from 69 they play all stuff off lz 1 . It rocks .It doesnt look like a acoustic cab or head or is it?
But yeah cant wait to hear more TCV great line up!!!
 
#156
Ihixulu asked: "PS, any word on the alleged 360 repro's in the works at the new GC/Acoustic?"

They have built several and are in the final stages of testing. I think that at least one tour is planning to use them. George is taking orders now - they are not cheap - but are state of the art.
 
#157
Gee Zig,

I wonder just who's tour that could be...:confused:

Might there be three runes, one new but of four sticks, and their seems to be a feather not yet landed after dancing with such a pretty bird who gathers her bow...? :D

More than a quarter left, in the year of 09, but the bankers must have their fee, so perhaps we'll never see.:atoz:


Play On!:bassist:

Bassmore
 
#158
ZiggyDude said:
Ihixulu asked: "PS, any word on the alleged 360 repro's in the works at the new GC/Acoustic?"

They have built several and are in the final stages of testing. I think that at least one tour is planning to use them. George is taking orders now - they are not cheap - but are state of the art.
Click to expand...

How could a repro of an turn of the 70's solid-state bass amp be "state of the art"? Have you ever played thru one of those turkeys? There's a reason they went out of business rather quickly. Unless "loud" is your only criteria, I think you will be shocked at how awful they sound.
 
#160
mark107 said:
How could a repro of an turn of the 70's solid-state bass amp be "state of the art"? Have you ever played thru one of those turkeys? There's a reason they went out of business rather quickly. Unless "loud" is your only criteria, I think you will be shocked at how awful they sound.
Click to expand...

Why, yes! yes I have and do so now (370) and I prefer it over my mainstay - the SVT4Pro....Granted, not a HI-Fi sort of rig (for all the "purists"), but I absolutely LOVE the 370!!

I will purchase one of the new 360s as soon as they are available.

I understand that a lot of folks "don't get it"...and that's fine...But I do...and I will :D
 

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