Whoa! You better do a little research into the company known as Acoustic before you posting your OPINIONS as fact. I think you'll be very surprised at what Acoustic designed, built and influenced when they were in their heyday.
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John Paul Jones and Acoustic 360
- Thread starter mwhan
- Start date
Whoa! You better do a little research into the company known as Acoustic before you posting your OPINIONS as fact. I think you'll be very surprised at what Acoustic designed, built and influenced when they were in their heyday.
Wow - such vehemence. Well - not every amp is going to make every person happy. I for one am not impressed with the Shuttles - but others will vouch for them. That is why we have so many different products out there - to fit many individuals. And I think that is just great.
Anyway - the new 360 is not an actual "Repop". Yes - it will look about the same and is based on much the same principles. But the cabinet was tuned a bit, it has a specially desighned 18 for the job, another secret weapon in the cab for improved full range, and the power amp and preamp are designed by the best in the business - all new.
I also have a "Modern" rig (SVT4-Pro and 610 HLF SLM issue) but really enjoy the 370 and 320. The 406 wide - with modern speakers - does outperform the 610. But - I am also willing to carry pounds and don't go through a PA - so not everyone's situation is mine. If I had a trustworthy PA and soundman I would scale back some (just some :->)
I will say that the new 360 will get that Led Zep sound. And will cost less than GC paid for the original rig
Anyway - the new 360 is not an actual "Repop". Yes - it will look about the same and is based on much the same principles. But the cabinet was tuned a bit, it has a specially desighned 18 for the job, another secret weapon in the cab for improved full range, and the power amp and preamp are designed by the best in the business - all new.
I also have a "Modern" rig (SVT4-Pro and 610 HLF SLM issue) but really enjoy the 370 and 320. The 406 wide - with modern speakers - does outperform the 610. But - I am also willing to carry pounds and don't go through a PA - so not everyone's situation is mine. If I had a trustworthy PA and soundman I would scale back some (just some :->)
I will say that the new 360 will get that Led Zep sound. And will cost less than GC paid for the original rig
The first tech that looked in to my 360 backin the day said
that it was way over built compared to all the amps he had seen up to that point. Everything was speced to exceed what others were using as standard wiring an parts. In short built like a tank. I guess Jaco, Larry Graham, and JPJ didn't have a clue to what a good bass amp sounded like? I think I smell a troll.
that it was way over built compared to all the amps he had seen up to that point. Everything was speced to exceed what others were using as standard wiring an parts. In short built like a tank. I guess Jaco, Larry Graham, and JPJ didn't have a clue to what a good bass amp sounded like? I think I smell a troll.
The first tech that looked in to my 360 backin the day said
that it was way over built compared to all the amps he had seen up to that point. Everything was speced to exceed what others were using as standard wiring an parts. In short built like a tank. I guess Jaco, Larry Graham, and JPJ didn't have a clue to what a good bass amp sounded like? I think I smell a troll.
No, hardly. I am 54 years old, and went to concerts all the time during that period. I am also a bass player, like all of you. I live in NYC, and saw Hendrix, Santana, the Airplane, Hot Tuna, The Allman Bros, etc., at the Filmore East, which I went to a lot. And then there was the Schaffer Music Festival in Central Park, which had four concerts a week all summer long. For $2. a pop, you could go just to see how bad someone was
In short, I saw a ton of concerts in the day. And EVERY time the rig was a 360, the tone sucked. NO low end. And the midrange always sounded "honky". And there was never an exception. But it was LOUD. Which is why a lot of bands used it. If there were multiple bands on the bill. and one of them had a 360, that guy had the worst bass sound of the night. You can say what you want, but I was there, and I heard it. Over and over again. I am not a troll.Not that this is a proper way to just a loud bass amp, but the local Sam Ash sold them, and they sounded terrible in the store too.
Regarding the names you mentioned:
Jaco - He was obsessed with being the loudest thing on the stage. I knew him when he lived in NYC, so I know this first hand. One night he sat in with a friend's band, and turned every knob on the house B15 to the top. He blew the speaker on the very first note, and left the band's bass player scrambling to find an amp. If xyz bass amp was louder than a 360, he would have used it. For what it's worth, I never saw him use a 360 in NY. He used whatever was at hand, and he either blew it up or he didn't. He used my amp one night at my gig, but it was at a club owned by Gordon Edwards, so maybe he thought he should behave himself, lol.
Larry Graham - double what I just said. I currently play bass with several of the P-Funk guys, and LG's obsession with volume is legion. We were driving back from a gig three weeks ago, and saw a trackor-trailer in front of us. On of them says, "That's for Larry's bass amp". Another one retorts, "Yeah, but just for the E and A strings". LG used to bring an entire PA for his bass. Not even the 360 cut it after a while, but it was a start.
JPJ - It was the loudest bass amp of the day, and he was up against several Marshall stacks, and John Bonham. I'd probably have done the same.
I stick by my original point, it was used because it was loud, but the tone was crap. When I saw Hendrix, Billy Cox used two Sunn 2000s heads with four cabinets, a total of 8 JBL D140 speakers. Now that was tone! Or Jack Casidy using an Alembic preamp into a McIntosh 2300 power amp. Or Rocco with an SVT. Or even Howard Johnson playing into a B15. All sounded infinity better than a 360, which out in the room sounded like a huge transistor radio. I am not a troll. I was there, and the tone sucked. Every single time. If there is a new one coming, and it sounds good, it will be because it is NOT a faithful recreation of the original, which would sound even worse now, now that we actually have bass amps that sound both loud, AND good!
OK...I'm a "tad" older than you...so weren't you like 15 when Jimi died? And, (and I'm not sure about the dates) but didn't Jimi LAST play the Fillmore in, like, 69? So, you were at the Fillmore when you were 14? OK....
Look, I can't cop to having known Jaco. Didn't. And I have never subscribed to the "bass god" thing...My belief is that "it was what it was"...but this is a thread about the Acoustic amp....and, yes, Jaco used one...
I have played through a number of them, and heard many, many more. I do not agree with your assertion at all; however, as opinions go - we're all entitled to ours...BUT, as another guy would say: "opinions are like a%$holes - we all have one and they all stink"...so there you go!
Frankly, I'm looking forward to the re-release of the new USA Acoustic line...if for nothing else than I always thought they looked cool as hell on a stage!
I just wish George would hurry up!!
Wow - such vehemence. Well - not every amp is going to make every person happy. I for one am not impressed with the Shuttles - but others will vouch for them. That is why we have so many different products out there - to fit many individuals. And I think that is just great.
Anyway - the new 360 is not an actual "Repop". Yes - it will look about the same and is based on much the same principles. But the cabinet was tuned a bit, it has a specially desighned 18 for the job, another secret weapon in the cab for improved full range, and the power amp and preamp are designed by the best in the business - all new.
I also have a "Modern" rig (SVT4-Pro and 610 HLF SLM issue) but really enjoy the 370 and 320. The 406 wide - with modern speakers - does outperform the 610. But - I am also willing to carry pounds and don't go through a PA - so not everyone's situation is mine. If I had a trustworthy PA and soundman I would scale back some (just some :->)
I will say that the new 360 will get that Led Zep sound. And will cost less than GC paid for the original rig
I'm very much like you...I, too, have went the "smaller" route..and I keep my MarkBass CMD121P to this day and I absolutely love it.
For gigs, however, I go big...I don't mind carting equipment and I still cringe when I see the post of a young blood who laments the idea of carrying a "big amp" to a show....Hell! That's half the fun!!!
In or around 1976 I used a 140/106 with a 361 plugged into the "booster" jack. Way better than the 360 preamp, and one hell of a combination. The two worked great together. I used to get compliments, and also had to keep myself in check, as it was easy to get out of hand.
Lets look for some common ground.
OK - even a really good amp will not sound nice if pushed too hard. Some amps do a certain sound better than others. If you try to make a rumble monster sound clackity or vs. vs - results will not be good. A person may be getting a sound he loves and another will hate it.
A W bin is not the weapon of choice for slapping in a funk band - but is great for finger style classic rock for back ground rumble.
Playing an Ampeg "Classic" 6x10, the Acoustic 406 2x15 (very heavy duty cab and colors the sound that way) and of course the 371 - they all have good and bads. The 406 is the best compromise for me as long as not a huge room or on a high stage. I suppose nirvana would be to lay the W bin on its side, lay an 8x10 SVT on side on top, and bi-amp. But - who is going to carry that anymore? Not to mention a rather upset soundman who finds his PA in most rooms is not irrelevant!
OK - even a really good amp will not sound nice if pushed too hard. Some amps do a certain sound better than others. If you try to make a rumble monster sound clackity or vs. vs - results will not be good. A person may be getting a sound he loves and another will hate it.
A W bin is not the weapon of choice for slapping in a funk band - but is great for finger style classic rock for back ground rumble.
Playing an Ampeg "Classic" 6x10, the Acoustic 406 2x15 (very heavy duty cab and colors the sound that way) and of course the 371 - they all have good and bads. The 406 is the best compromise for me as long as not a huge room or on a high stage. I suppose nirvana would be to lay the W bin on its side, lay an 8x10 SVT on side on top, and bi-amp. But - who is going to carry that anymore? Not to mention a rather upset soundman who finds his PA in most rooms is not irrelevant!
I have heard a huge number of bands in various sized rooms and concert situations, and a lot of different rigs. It really depends on the bassist and how the amp is used, that determines what is heard. ANY amp will sound bad if it is overdriven, or has a crummy speaker, or hasn't been maintained properly.
In addition, we're all at the mercy of the soundmen/women, and how they think we should sound in relation to the all powerful kick-drum-God.
I did two nights at a casino here in Reno, just this past weekend. The sound I heard from my custom made 5 string with EMG 40 dc-5 pickups, and the full bqs eq setup was great in my in-ears only mix. Great bottom, plenty of mids and a lot of modern high end. A bassist friend sitting in the front row said he hard nothing like what I described I heard in my mix...and that it had almost all lows, and little else.
The point is that what you think sounds good may not be getting into the house at all! The days of huge, loud bass amps are rapidly coming to a close in professionally mixed live situations. Aviom mixers and in-ear monitors are gaining popularity.
I get a very pleasing bass sound like this, and am truly happy I don't have to carry my Cerwin-Vega B-36's, Sunn 2-15's or old SVT cabinets in and out of clubs anymore. I NEVER thought I'd ever say that! They won't let you use even a 4-10 cabinet in some venues here in Nevada now, unless it's outdoors!
I LOVE the look of the old 360's. I really would love to have one. The question now though is- Why? There aren't really any places to use one, what- in your home? The police will be arriving to tell you you aren't pleasing the neighbors. The 'tours' that will use them -may produce some sales for Acoustic, but there isn't a practical application for privately owned concert bass amps- except from a collector's point of view. If you don't live in an isolated area, or where the neighbors also make lots of noise, fuggedaboutit!
In addition, we're all at the mercy of the soundmen/women, and how they think we should sound in relation to the all powerful kick-drum-God.
I did two nights at a casino here in Reno, just this past weekend. The sound I heard from my custom made 5 string with EMG 40 dc-5 pickups, and the full bqs eq setup was great in my in-ears only mix. Great bottom, plenty of mids and a lot of modern high end. A bassist friend sitting in the front row said he hard nothing like what I described I heard in my mix...and that it had almost all lows, and little else.
The point is that what you think sounds good may not be getting into the house at all! The days of huge, loud bass amps are rapidly coming to a close in professionally mixed live situations. Aviom mixers and in-ear monitors are gaining popularity.
I get a very pleasing bass sound like this, and am truly happy I don't have to carry my Cerwin-Vega B-36's, Sunn 2-15's or old SVT cabinets in and out of clubs anymore. I NEVER thought I'd ever say that! They won't let you use even a 4-10 cabinet in some venues here in Nevada now, unless it's outdoors!
I LOVE the look of the old 360's. I really would love to have one. The question now though is- Why? There aren't really any places to use one, what- in your home? The police will be arriving to tell you you aren't pleasing the neighbors. The 'tours' that will use them -may produce some sales for Acoustic, but there isn't a practical application for privately owned concert bass amps- except from a collector's point of view. If you don't live in an isolated area, or where the neighbors also make lots of noise, fuggedaboutit!
I understand where you are coming from, and, for quite a while I used ONLY a MarkBass CMD121P...it's a nice fairy tale, but not for me. I still keep the little guy, but have returned to the big guys...remember: There is a volume knob for a reason...
I realize that a lot of guys subscribe to the "less is more" idea, and that's OK...but for me...NAW....!!!
I had the distinct pleasure Sunday of being asked by the sound man to turn my bass down because it was overwhelming the house. This from a Shuttle 6.0 with two, 112 cabs.
This from a Shuttle 6.0 with two, 112 cabs.
If you couldn't read that without paragraphs, you fail. Are you really that limited?
He probably couldn't hear the kick drum.
I stand right beside the drummer and he's just about all I can hear. What I find hilarious is, we have a kid playing sometimes who stands three feet from his amp, which is facing up at his ears on a stand, and he says he can't hear himself.
Well, some of the recent posts made me laugh...especially the one that said "he probably couldn't hear the kick drum!" That's damn funny, and it's absolutely dead-on reality. The sound mixing people here are all powerful when it comes down to it.
You can sound great, or like your playing a bass kazoo, depending on as little as if you didn't quite kiss the soundman's ass enough or he doesn't like the bass you play. Or your haircut. Think I'm kidding? If you were here on this circuit, you'd know it's true. It may be like this elsewhere, as I suspect it is. I once was known among the sound techs here for givin' them **** about burying the bass under the kick. Their opinions have changed due to that stopping. I simply show up, plug in and play now- they can do as they like, I have my own mix, and that's all I need.
In the band I'm in, I'm not permitted to have an amplifier onstage, none of the musicians in the band want it. Not just the house rules. My gig depended on me learning to adapt to this situation, even though I feel it is insultingly stupid and unfair, as they all use a live foldback monitor. But, it's not my band or call to make. They bury the bass to a lower than I'd mix it level, and it's lame, but again, not my call.
I have a storage unit filled with miscellaneous stuff, and some big, old school folded horn cabinets. The last time I used one of those was outdoors, 2.5 years ago. I just played the same outdoor stage recently, I used a new Acoustic B-200 combo and went direct. The sound of the bass got many compliments from the many musicians that were in attendance. I didn't need my beloved Cerwin-Vega B-36mf to be heard!
I have not only adapted to not using an amp, I prefer it now..I'm 57, and have played professionally since about 1970. I also use a GK-1001 RB3 with a shaker platform. It feels like there's a huge cabinet behind me, but no one can hear it. This makes me, and the band members very happy. So, in reality, If I show up with a 360, and piss the sound guy, and everyone in the band off, will that get you re-hired on the gig? Some of my friends that are playing with 'name' performers tell me that this is the way it is going on concert stages now- in-ear monitors, or small amps facing the player. That's the future. Adaptation is the key.
You can sound great, or like your playing a bass kazoo, depending on as little as if you didn't quite kiss the soundman's ass enough or he doesn't like the bass you play. Or your haircut. Think I'm kidding? If you were here on this circuit, you'd know it's true. It may be like this elsewhere, as I suspect it is. I once was known among the sound techs here for givin' them **** about burying the bass under the kick. Their opinions have changed due to that stopping. I simply show up, plug in and play now- they can do as they like, I have my own mix, and that's all I need.
In the band I'm in, I'm not permitted to have an amplifier onstage, none of the musicians in the band want it. Not just the house rules. My gig depended on me learning to adapt to this situation, even though I feel it is insultingly stupid and unfair, as they all use a live foldback monitor. But, it's not my band or call to make. They bury the bass to a lower than I'd mix it level, and it's lame, but again, not my call.
I have a storage unit filled with miscellaneous stuff, and some big, old school folded horn cabinets. The last time I used one of those was outdoors, 2.5 years ago. I just played the same outdoor stage recently, I used a new Acoustic B-200 combo and went direct. The sound of the bass got many compliments from the many musicians that were in attendance. I didn't need my beloved Cerwin-Vega B-36mf to be heard!
I have not only adapted to not using an amp, I prefer it now..I'm 57, and have played professionally since about 1970. I also use a GK-1001 RB3 with a shaker platform. It feels like there's a huge cabinet behind me, but no one can hear it. This makes me, and the band members very happy. So, in reality, If I show up with a 360, and piss the sound guy, and everyone in the band off, will that get you re-hired on the gig? Some of my friends that are playing with 'name' performers tell me that this is the way it is going on concert stages now- in-ear monitors, or small amps facing the player. That's the future. Adaptation is the key.
I was in a band (MLB) for a long time that did not want to hear bass on stage. Actually - in the mix either. Everyone in the band retired except me. Now both current acts want to hear mega bass on stage and out front. One band is almost old farts and the other on the almost young side.
It matters on the folks you play with. Looking back - I should have jumped ship from MLB a long time before they fell apart. But - like most acts you have been in a long time - it is sort of like family - you take the good with the bad. You just hang and take it.
Life is good when your guitar player tells you to turn up. Or - my drummer said once "I want you to turn it up and keep turning it up until I tell you to stop".
So - the lesson I learned. Seek out the band mates that make a constructive and happy life.
It matters on the folks you play with. Looking back - I should have jumped ship from MLB a long time before they fell apart. But - like most acts you have been in a long time - it is sort of like family - you take the good with the bad. You just hang and take it.
Life is good when your guitar player tells you to turn up. Or - my drummer said once "I want you to turn it up and keep turning it up until I tell you to stop".
So - the lesson I learned. Seek out the band mates that make a constructive and happy life.
I had the distinct pleasure Sunday of being asked by the sound man to turn my bass down because it was overwhelming the house.
Probably something else bleeding through - or a muddy guitar player or boomy kick drum mike. All too often the bass player gets blamed for stuff we don't do. I don't know how many times I had to go on a hunt to find what was really booming - or else picking me up - just to clean up the sound and get folks off my back. Sometimes it can just be a mike stand sitting on a more than resonate stage.
Like Rodney said - just can't get no respect!
Thought I'd suggest the Peavey BAM 210 combo or the head. It has a 360 emulated cabinet on it that sounds like what you're looking for.
