Jule Amps Monique part 4

[KJung]

Jule bounced me back. First, the weight of the Tardis DeMonique is 13 pounds. VERY nice! Couldn't find that info on the site.

Not surprisingly, the Level now acts like a master volume. I really didn't get into the logic of the push/pull level boost and what the impact is on the line out that is still on the unit (and on the internal power amp), since quite frankly, I don't care much about that. Of course, the push/pull boost on the sensitivity is basically just a version of the 'pad' or 'boost' input buttons on most amps, and is still useful with the integrated unit.

He said that the original Mini design was not even going to have a master volume on it, but is useful for using preamps with it that don't have the optimum output to drive the amp.

So, I'm good to go! Still a little 'strange' to me, and I would guess it would make the level 'master' a bit jumpy (i.e., it would be the same as you component folks running the mini wide open at all times). Most of the pictures I see of guys using the component version have the mini turned down quite a bit. Of course, looking at it the other way, I guess it is always good to remove any circuitry from the signal path that is not really needed. So, design decisions like any other product, and Jule seems to massively know what he is doing!

Wondering what that does to the signal noise also, since the typical logic of a pre/master/power amp set up is again to maximum the signal going into the amp to the highest 'clean' level and then turn the amp up to reach needed volume.

Oh well, I'm done I'll assume it will work fine (since Jule and Jim worked together to 'optimize' the relationship between the amp input and preamp output), and that the level control will have at least enough travel in it to adjust output volume easily on moderate volume gigs, even though the internal amp is 'dimed and fixed'.

I really like the form factor.... 13 pounds.... impressive!

So, Pat... I think you nailed it. I lose a touch of functionality, but it should be trivial, and the benefit is a single unit, one power cable, one speaker cable and done!

Thanks guys ( and Jule).

 

[BurningSkies]

First off 'noise' won't be a problem... The Monique is dead quiet. Even with the sensitivity cranked. Also, I would hesitate to consider the Sensitivity control to be an input gain control. It's not a linear thing like any other amp or preamp I've used. As Jule has explained it, it does a few things at once and I find the push/pull on it works in that realm...while yes it's an input pad it works as a tonal color with how your signal hits the tube path. I've often described the feel of that control as "elastic".

 

[KJung]

First off 'noise' won't be a problem... The Monique is dead quiet. Even with the sensitivity cranked. Also, I would hesitate to consider the Sensitivity control to be an input gain control. It's not a linear thing like any other amp or preamp I've used. As Jule has explained it, it does a few things at once and I find the push/pull on it works in that realm...while yes it's an input pad it works as a tonal color with how your signal hits the tube path. I've often described the feel of that control as "elastic".

+1. I understand it isn't a 1 to 1 volume to the complexity thing, so that is good given the 'master' issue we are discussing for sure!

The noise issue would not be driven by the Monique, but rather by having the Demeter dimed. With the deMonique, your level control IS the overall (and only) volume control, which again is a bit different. In your case. It would behave like always having your power amp dimed, no matter what volume you are playing.

Most likely wont be an issue, other than a possibly jumpy master volume situation. I agree about noise not being a concern in general, given the quality of this stuff.

I'm good... I'll post up will be in a couple/few months when it arrives!!!!

Thanks all for the discussion and results. Pat's post set my mind at ease, since he dug into this issue with Jule in the past, and came away with the conclusion 'a bit different with the internal amp, but no big deal for the vast majority of players'.

 

[nostatic]

You will be shocked at how quiet the pair is. It makes the Puma sound noisy.

One reason I like the separates is the ability to change how the preamp signal hits the power amp. I tend to do things differently that some others. I usually keep Minnie's level low (that is my master), and I run Monique's output a bit high. The sensitivity is somewhat independent of that relationship. That really is where you can change the character of how Monique responds to your playing. The level is essentially just a "volume" rather than a "gain" or "level" control on a typical preamp.

I think the difference between diming the power amp and controlling overall volume with Monique's level, and diming Monique's level and controlling overall volume with Minnie's level (only possible with separates) is subtle at best. Really the amp lives with the sensitivity and eq sections. And really for me, it is all about the sensitivity and the instrument and technique. The eq is just a bit of sauce for different rooms.

Monique is different than any other amp I've played in that respect. When I do a gig with the Puma I feel like I'm missing something. And the Puma is a great amp, so that is saying something.

 

[KJung]

You will be shocked at how quiet the pair is. It makes the Puma sound noisy.

One reason I like the separates is the ability to change how the preamp signal hits the power amp. I tend to do things differently that some others. I usually keep Minnie's level low (that is my master), and I run Monique's output a bit high. The sensitivity is somewhat independent of that relationship. That really is where you can change the character of how Monique responds to your playing. The level is essentially just a "volume" rather than a "gain" or "level" control on a typical preamp.

I think the difference between diming the power amp and controlling overall volume with Monique's level, and diming Monique's level and controlling overall volume with Minnie's level (only possible with separates) is subtle at best. Really the amp lives with the sensitivity and eq sections. And really for me, it is all about the sensitivity and the instrument and technique. The eq is just a bit of sauce for different rooms.

Monique is different than any other amp I've played in that respect. When I do a gig with the Puma I feel like I'm missing something. And the Puma is a great amp, so that is saying something.

+1 Per the above, this is the conclusion I've arrived at. Again, at this point, my ONLY concern is a possible lack to 'travel and precision' in the level control at lower volumes (since the power amp is 'fixed' at dimed), but that is true of many 'all in one' amps.

And yes, again, I understand the 'level control' is the post EQ volume control of the output of the preamp into a power amp . This is very typical on most stand-alone preamps (with a gain control to adjust for tonality and instrument output level... like the push/pull on the sensitivity, and the level to make sure you aren't either overdriving the input of the power amp, or sending too weak of a signal), and the true 'master volume' is on the amp itself. This is the entire issue we have been discussing (i.e., that you lose one volume control (a 'post everything master) in the all-in-one unit)!

 

[nostatic]

I haven't played the integrated unit so I don't know about the low volume issues. For most of the gigs you seem to play shouldn't be an issue. For some of my jazz gigs I have to be more on the quiet side for certain rooms and I'll admit that I tend to use the Monique line level as my fine control in those situations but I could use the master. Depends on how I'm sitting and turning back to the amp. I do tend to be a creature of habit.

 

[KJung]

I haven't played the integrated unit so I don't know about the low volume issues. For most of the gigs you seem to play shouldn't be an issue. For some of my jazz gigs I have to be more on the quiet side for certain rooms and I'll admit that I tend to use the Monique line level as my fine control in those situations but I could use the master. Depends on how I'm sitting and turning back to the amp. I do tend to be a creature of habit.

+1 I'm all in! Should be a fun unit to have with the P!!!! I've decided the simplicity of the all in one unit is a fair trade-off for the bit of loss in the control of the gain stages.

 

[Randyt]

You will be shocked at how quiet the pair is. It makes the Puma sound noisy.

One reason I like the separates is the ability to change how the preamp signal hits the power amp. I tend to do things differently that some others. I usually keep Minnie's level low (that is my master), and I run Monique's output a bit high. The sensitivity is somewhat independent of that relationship. That really is where you can change the character of how Monique responds to your playing. The level is essentially just a "volume" rather than a "gain" or "level" control on a typical preamp.

I think the difference between diming the power amp and controlling overall volume with Monique's level, and diming Monique's level and controlling overall volume with Minnie's level (only possible with separates) is subtle at best. Really the amp lives with the sensitivity and eq sections. And really for me, it is all about the sensitivity and the instrument and technique. The eq is just a bit of sauce for different rooms.

Monique is different than any other amp I've played in that respect. When I do a gig with the Puma I feel like I'm missing something. And the Puma is a great amp, so that is saying something.

Nostatic...what are your thoughts of the combination of Monique and the Puma 900?...rather than the Demeter?...as I have the Puma 900 and the M212 now...just wanting to add that finer tube feel and tame the HiFi sound?...thoughts please

Randy

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

Again, at this point, my ONLY concern is a possible lack to 'travel and precision' in the level control at lower volumes (since the power amp is 'fixed' at dimed), but that is true of many 'all in one' amps.

That won't be a problem for you at all. De-Monique's Level control is one of the smoothest sounding tapers I've heard, and the push-pull boost on it gives you two ranges of volume. I've only played mine at low-medium volumes, but I'll know more when she comes back from Jule in a week or two.

I don't know if the Demeter is set to sound best with the Level control pulled out or pushed in.

 

[nostatic]

Nostatic...what are your thoughts of the combination of Monique and the Puma 900?...rather than the Demeter?...as I have the Puma 900 and the M212 now...just wanting to add that finer tube feel and tame the HiFi sound?...thoughts please

Randy

I ran Monique into the effects return of my Puma 900 and it sounds great. I mostly ordered Minnie for aesthetic reasons but also found that it does sound a bit different. While the Puma 900 is a great amp with a low noise floor, the Monique/Minnie combination is even quieter. And the power section of the Puma has a bit more edge to it than Minnie.

Subtle and not sure how much you'd hear in a mix, but steubig and I did some listening tests and we both noticed a difference.

 

[KJung]

That won't be a problem for you at all. De-Monique's Level control is one of the smoothest sounding tapers I've heard, and the push-pull boost on it gives you two ranges of volume. I've only played mine at low-medium volumes, but I'll know more when she comes back from Jule in a week or two.

I don't know if the Demeter is set to sound best with the Level control pulled out or pushed in.

Excellent! Thanks! That was my last little smidge of concern put to rest I'm pumped to get this thing! The 13 pound weight is very nice given the wump of that power module, and the top of the line tube preamp. Very impressive. Even with its size, I should be able to bag it for the schlep!

 

[maisbass]

Nostatic...what are your thoughts of the combination of Monique and the Puma 900?...rather than the Demeter?...as I have the Puma 900 and the M212 now...just wanting to add that finer tube feel and tame the HiFi sound?...thoughts please

Randy

I presently gig with a Dove cage Monique and Puma 900. I also use Monique with my Crest Prolite 2.0.

I can tell you first hand there is a difference. I notice it most of all when I do outdoor gigs.

I agree with Nostatic about the 900 power section being a bit edgy. But fiddling with Monique a bit can get you around this to some extent. It's a matter of getting the line out on Monique just right to your ears. I still think this combination sounds fantastic and I gig with this combination 90% of the time.

Basically my rule of thumb is outdoor gigs I use my crest power amp, indoor gigs Puma power section. Here's why..

The crest seems to provide more girth, thickness, a bit warmer, and really pushes air, hence why I like it for outdoor gigs. For mostly anything else I will use the Puma with the exception maybe of a few clubs I play which are really large rooms with large stages, but in those cases I use it more for selfish reasons ! Hehe

All in all, Monique / Puma 900 sounds fantastic and provides plenty of power for most gigs when using two cabs. You won't be disappointed. Plus it's nice to have the option of using the Puma in a pinch heaven forbid if something happened to Monique on the gig. Yikes!!

Would I like to try and maybe purchase a Minnie? Absolutely. But right now I'm too busy saving for a backup to my Fodera!

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

I used Monique through the power section of both an EA IAmp Pro and an IAmp Micro for about a year before I asked James Demeter to build me the first Minnie. When I explained that I wanted it to be the same chassis size as the Monique, he asked Jule to send him a blank chassis and the rest is history. The Pro sounded a bit more open, whereas the Micro seemed a tad more compressed, but the Minnie sounds better than both and it seems to have WAY more headroom. Enough to convince me to sell the Pro and keep the Micro as a backup head. You guys can thank me later....

 

[AmazingMumford]

First off 'noise' won't be a problem... The Monique is dead quiet. Even with the sensitivity cranked.

I can get a noticeable noise floor with Sensitivity dimed and pulled out if I push the Line Out past 3:00, but then I'm playing a passive Fender P through it, and I would *assume* that it's just a faithful amplification of the noise coming off the bass...not an issue in real-world applications.

 

[KJung]

I can get a noticeable noise floor with Sensitivity dimed and pulled out if I push the Line Out past 3:00, but then I'm playing a passive Fender P through it, and I would *assume* that it's just a faithful amplification of the noise coming off the bass...not an issue in real-world applications.

Those seem to be some pretty extreme settings, so it wouldn't surprise me that any amp would put out some noise there. Most amps I own and/or have used/tried are 'quiet enough' that there would never be a problem on stage with any of them. The GK line of micro's has a noise floor that is a bit above my comfort level (most likely due to the very aggressive top end baked into those things), but even those would be fine on any gig, since on soft gigs where you notice the noise, the amps would be turned down enough to, well, lower the noise for the most part

Using a pre in a studio is of course a totally different issue, and the Monique seems particularly suited for that, from the posts here.

 

[AmazingMumford]

I saw that new Berg....damn it....

Sealed 15 with 6" mid driver, 8 ohms, a bit over 50 pounds. Pretty much perfect (it would seem) for the Monique and....... a P Bass!

Terrible combination. You'd be infringing on my tone.

(Just a) Fender ASP/Tony Franklin Fretless -> Monique Rack -> various power amps -> Berg NV115

(Actually, until another TB member can work up the cash for his half of our collective purchase of a used pair, that's 2 x NV115 with a QSC PLX1802 bridged. I'm being a very gentle custodian--the second 115 never leaves my house and the PLX is kept low--but after a month the curiosity was killing me. :scowl

Oh, and as an amateur equipment whore who aspires to be Tom Bowlus when he grows up, I can say that the combination works just fine with any of my other basses, including a Dingwall Super J. But, yes, it does beg for a P.

P.S. I've also tried NV115 + HD112 with Monique. Love it near-field at practice volume, but I've never tried it in a gig situation.

 

[AmazingMumford]

Those seem to be some pretty extreme settings, so it wouldn't surprise me that any amp would put out some noise there.

Absolutely--I just tested the range of gain (with the EQ flat) to see where noise crept in.

 

[juledude]

That won't be a problem for you at all. De-Monique's Level control is one of the smoothest sounding tapers I've heard, and the push-pull boost on it gives you two ranges of volume. I've only played mine at low-medium volumes, but I'll know more when she comes back from Jule in a week or two.

I don't know if the Demeter is set to sound best with the Level control pulled out or pushed in.

The idea was to be able to max the 800-D amplifier that is the "De" of the Rack Mount or Tardis De-Monique with the Line Out pushed in.

 

[juledude]

Jule bounced me back. First, the weight of the Tardis DeMonique is 13 pounds. VERY nice! Couldn't find that info on the site.

Not surprisingly, the Level now acts like a master volume. I really didn't get into the logic of the push/pull level boost and what the impact is on the line out that is still on the unit (and on the internal power amp), since quite frankly, I don't care much about that. Of course, the push/pull boost on the sensitivity is basically just a version of the 'pad' or 'boost' input buttons on most amps, and is still useful with the integrated unit.

He said that the original Mini design was not even going to have a master volume on it, but is useful for using preamps with it that don't have the optimum output to drive the amp.

So, I'm good to go! Still a little 'strange' to me, and I would guess it would make the level 'master' a bit jumpy (i.e., it would be the same as you component folks running the mini wide open at all times). Most of the pictures I see of guys using the component version have the mini turned down quite a bit. Of course, looking at it the other way, I guess it is always good to remove any circuitry from the signal path that is not really needed. So, design decisions like any other product, and Jule seems to massively know what he is doing!

Wondering what that does to the signal noise also, since the typical logic of a pre/master/power amp set up is again to maximum the signal going into the amp to the highest 'clean' level and then turn the amp up to reach needed volume.

Oh well, I'm done I'll assume it will work fine (since Jule and Jim worked together to 'optimize' the relationship between the amp input and preamp output), and that the level control will have at least enough travel in it to adjust output volume easily on moderate volume gigs, even though the internal amp is 'dimed and fixed'.

I really like the form factor.... 13 pounds.... impressive!

So, Pat... I think you nailed it. I lose a touch of functionality, but it should be trivial, and the benefit is a single unit, one power cable, one speaker cable and done!

Thanks guys ( and Jule).

The Tardis De-Monique is 17 1/4" wide, 12 1/4" front to back, and 4" tall. It sits on feet that are 1/2" tall so that makes the overall height 4 1/2" tall.

Add to the front and back dimensions about 3/4" for the knobs up front, and 1/2" for the goodies on the back for the full space required.

For comparison, the steel Rack Mount De-Monique is 18 pounds. The only difference is the steel rather than aluminum enclosure. Heavy, dense steel is required in studio rack environments to make sure nothing "talks" to an adjacent chassis. That is why good folks don't use aluminum for rack gear.

 

[KJung]

The Tardis De-Monique is 17 1/4" wide, 12 1/4" front to back, and 4" tall. It sits on feet that are 1/2" tall so that makes the overall height 4 1/2" tall.

Add to the front and back dimensions about 3/4" for the knobs up front, and 1/2" for the goodies on the back for the full space required.

For comparison, the steel Rack Mount De-Monique is 18 pounds. The only difference is the steel rather than aluminum enclosure. Heavy, dense steel is required in studio rack environments to make sure nothing "talks" to an adjacent chassis. That is why good folks don't use aluminum for rack gear.

Thanks again Jule! (and everyone else on the thread).

I am very excited to get the DeMonique! I promise I won't bother you for at least a month