Jule Amps Monique part 5

[peterpalmieri]

I get that because as maisbass said the inputs would have different coloration and loading. My test was with the Berg IPs. In that case there is only one input for the plate amp. I could plug either the Monique's line or DI into it.

Trying to interface the Monique into the AER was trial and error. The AER sounds great the Monique could make it better. The best was into the actual instrument input set to line. It can be set to mic. Into the pwr amp in, effects in etc. just didn't work.
It took a careful setting of the input to get the most Monique while not over driving input. Now it's set and forget. Hilarious at first gig I did everything but crank the Master so it was timid. After one song lightbulb moment. Crazy how live switching left to right to left brain troubleshooting/playing tune is chaos.

They'd be identical if you could impedance match each to exact standards? But that doesn't seem to be a realistic idea unless you have gear custom made to accept either to Monique's specs.

 

[BurningSkies]

Thanks gave that a shot didn't move the needle.

I'm starting to think they're just not a great match for each other. The line out on Mo in comparison to the XLR is brighter and more brittle. And the QSC is a bit brighter then your average bass amp. The Motown DI knocks off a lot of high end content and sounds really great. It gives you no control except the gain on the QSC but I can't get Mo to sound as good in any combination. If I still had a Reddi I'd like to hear how that would sound.

??? I've not found this in my experience at all. I've played both ways, but the DI out is wider and cleaner and precise and to my ears has less warmth and mojo than the line out.

 

[peterpalmieri]

??? I've not found this in my experience at all. I've played both ways, but the DI out is wider and cleaner and precise and to my ears has less warmth and mojo than the line out.

Sounds like we have two different amps. My goals may be unique but I've had 3 different Monique owners over my house who are all experienced players and gear whores. We all had similar thoughts on the differences in outputs. And similar experiences using each other's Monique.

 

[BurningSkies]

Sounds like we have two different amps. My goals may be unique but I've had 3 different Monique owners over my house who are all experienced players and gear whores. We all had similar thoughts on the differences in outputs. And similar experiences using each other's Monique.

I don't know what to tell you, beyond 100's of shows and multiple studio experiences. I would always consider the line to be warmer and have more 'mojo' than the DI which ends up being more suitable for 'studio ears' that are a bit fussier.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I don't know what to tell you, beyond 100's of shows and multiple studio experiences. I would always consider the line to be warmer and have more 'mojo' than the DI which ends up being more suitable for 'studio ears' that are a bit fussier.

I'm not looking to argue the point it is interesting that we've drawn different conclusions.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm not looking to argue the point it is interesting that we've drawn different conclusions.

I discussed it with Jule at one point. The DI is a 'more is more' philosophy enacted. What I hear is something that's a bit flatter and goes both higher and lower while remaining fairly pristine, although the sensitivity does impart some 'dirt' and tube harmonics in the very deep end of the pond on the DI. In recording, we found it remained as clean and possibly prettier if you roll the sensitivity back to below 9 o'clock in a direct recorded A/B that was subtle but noticeable on big genelec studio monitors.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Update - On running Mo with a QSC k12.2

I have found a solution that works for both the XLR and line outputs. Using channel B set to line level with the gain set at 0 or noon on the K12. On Mo I have both line level and sensitivity pulled out and the XLR level on the rear set to noon.

The real key to this is using a Mogami 1/4 to XLR cable. A cheaper hosa 1/4 to XLR doesn't sound the same and neither does 1/4 to 1/4 balanced or unbalanced. Unbalanced being a big fail.

I thank you all who pushed and debated me on this but now I have maximum flexibility. And will feel comfortable taking it out into the Wild.

 

[juledude]

Chadds is right. All we have for variables is impedance and level. There are few "standards," but 10k is often what is preferred as an input impedance. That is what Monique delivers. And if you have the Line Level knob pulled out you are adding +10db. That is way too much for most devices.

 

[juledude]

I recommend going wild whenever the opportunity arises.

Update - On running Mo with a QSC k12.2

I have found a solution that works for both the XLR and line outputs. Using channel B set to line level with the gain set at 0 or noon on the K12. On Mo I have both line level and sensitivity pulled out and the XLR level on the rear set to noon.

The real key to this is using a Mogami 1/4 to XLR cable. A cheaper hosa 1/4 to XLR doesn't sound the same and neither does 1/4 to 1/4 balanced or unbalanced. Unbalanced being a big fail.

I thank you all who pushed and debated me on this but now I have maximum flexibility. And will feel comfortable taking it out into the Wild.

 

[juledude]

Yes. Exactly.

A bit of a side note: The Blue Box Pedalish thing did not have the Cinemag DI tranny designed in originally. Several solid state devices were said to be able to deliver the characteristics of the heavy iron in the Cinemag. Unfortunately that did not turn out to be true in the "wild world." Redesigning/Repackaging now.

I discussed it with Jule at one point. The DI is a 'more is more' philosophy enacted. What I hear is something that's a bit flatter and goes both higher and lower while remaining fairly pristine, although the sensitivity does impart some 'dirt' and tube harmonics in the very deep end of the pond on the DI. In recording, we found it remained as clean and possibly prettier if you roll the sensitivity back to below 9 o'clock in a direct recorded A/B that was subtle but noticeable on big genelec studio monitors.

 

[juledude]

Yes. Exactly.

A bit of a side note: The Blue Box Pedalish thing did not have the Cinemag DI tranny designed in originally. Several solid state devices were said to be able to deliver the characteristics of the heavy iron in the Cinemag. Unfortunately that did not turn out to be true in the "wild world." Redesigning/Repackaging now.

I discussed it with Jule at one point. The DI is a 'more is more' philosophy enacted. What I hear is something that's a bit flatter and goes both higher and lower while remaining fairly pristine, although the sensitivity does impart some 'dirt' and tube harmonics in the very deep end of the pond on the DI. In recording, we found it remained as clean and possibly prettier if you roll the sensitivity back to below 9 o'clock in a direct recorded A/B that was subtle but noticeable on big genelec studio monitors.

 

[maisbass]

Beware. Techy stuff follows. Sorry.

I suppose if we wanted to drive too many things (half a dozen or more of varying impedances) from the Line Out (while it is driving speakers) we would eventually lose both level and definition, but driving something like IEM's should be perfect.

The situation is that the buffered Line Out signal inside Monique goes from the Line Out to an Amplifier Interface (with additional buffering) and then to the Amplifier. Taking the signal from the Line Out on the back while you are using the Amp through the speakers is pretty straightforward because of all this buffering.

Go for it. The only thing that may be a pain is the Level going to your IEM's is now influenced by the Line Output Level on the front of your Monique.

The Amp Input is different. The Amp Input (only for the 700 watt Rack and Tardis-folk - not straight Monique-folk) will break the connection from Monique to the Amp (and go directly to the Amp) as soon as you insert a cable. That is how it is designed. This (again) was not my idea, but I like it. Playing the Amp directly from a Bass plugged into that Amp Input is one of the many standard tests before we ship out to the customer.

This brings up a situation where we can (I know a lot of folks hate them) put Effects in between Monique and the 700 watt amp. Cable from Line Out to Effect, and then a cable from the Effect to the Amp Input. When we do this, the volume is controlled by the level on the Effect, but it is a tool that might be handy.

It is pretty awesome how much I learn when I just shut up and listen. ;-)

@juledude

Hey Jule,

So I finally tried this in a live setting with my Monique 700 and IEM's and it didn't work for me. As soon as I plugged the line out into my IEM mixer (small Yamaha mixer), my signal dropped dramatically and sounded distorted through my Hathor 1203 cabinet(4 ohms). Unfortunately I never listened to the IEM signal to see if it had the same problem.

Some notes... I was using an unbalanced Mogami instrument cable going from Monique 700 line out to a line input on my Yamaha mixer. Unfortunately I did not troubleshoot more due to lack of time. Side note, I always use an unbalanced instrument cable into my Yamaha mixer with no issues from the line out of my Mesa subway Pedal so I know the Yamaha mixer is fine with accepting an unbalanced line input.

I will try to troubleshoot some more when I get a chance. Any ideas Jule? You had previously stated that there should be no issue with doing this. Could there possibly be a problem with my Monique 700? Once I pulled the cable out of the line out the signal shot up dramatically and I almost fell off the stage lol! Thoughts?

 

[juledude]

@juledude

Hey Jule,

So I finally tried this in a live setting with my Monique 700 and IEM's and it didn't work for me. As soon as I plugged the line out into my IEM mixer (small Yamaha mixer), my signal dropped dramatically and sounded distorted through my Hathor 1203 cabinet(4 ohms). Unfortunately I never listened to the IEM signal to see if it had the same problem.

Some notes... I was using an unbalanced Mogami instrument cable going from Monique 700 line out to a line input on my Yamaha mixer. Unfortunately I did not troubleshoot more due to lack of time. Side note, I always use an unbalanced instrument cable into my Yamaha mixer with no issues from the line out of my Mesa subway Pedal so I know the Yamaha mixer is fine with accepting an unbalanced line input.

I will try to troubleshoot some more when I get a chance. Any ideas Jule? You had previously stated that there should be no issue with doing this. Could there possibly be a problem with my Monique 700? Once I pulled the cable out of the line out the signal shot up dramatically and I almost fell off the stage lol! Thoughts?

 

[juledude]

@juledude

Hey Jule,

So I finally tried this in a live setting with my Monique 700 and IEM's and it didn't work for me. As soon as I plugged the line out into my IEM mixer (small Yamaha mixer), my signal dropped dramatically and sounded distorted through my Hathor 1203 cabinet(4 ohms). Unfortunately I never listened to the IEM signal to see if it had the same problem.

Some notes... I was using an unbalanced Mogami instrument cable going from Monique 700 line out to a line input on my Yamaha mixer. Unfortunately I did not troubleshoot more due to lack of time. Side note, I always use an unbalanced instrument cable into my Yamaha mixer with no issues from the line out of my Mesa subway Pedal so I know the Yamaha mixer is fine with accepting an unbalanced line input.

I will try to troubleshoot some more when I get a chance. Any ideas Jule? You had previously stated that there should be no issue with doing this. Could there possibly be a problem with my Monique 700? Once I pulled the cable out of the line out the signal shot up dramatically and I almost fell off the stage lol! Thoughts?

If a signal level drops when a device (any device) is plugged into it that tells us the device being attached has an impedance that is lower than expected by the sending device. That means in your case a buffer of some kind will be required. There are a bunch of signal splitter/buffers out there that should work for your situation. An advantage of a splitter/buffer is that you will not have to be quite as concerned about connecting cable lengths or capacitance.

Another idea is to send the DI to the FOH and have them give you a signal for your IEM. I prefer the DI out in ears rather than the Line Out. Both work. Just personal preference.

 

[juledude]

The signal splitter/buffer should be an active device. If it has a FET input, that is better.

If a signal level drops when a device (any device) is plugged into it that tells us the device being attached has an impedance that is lower than expected by the sending device. That means in your case a buffer of some kind will be required. There are a bunch of signal splitter/buffers out there that should work for your situation. An advantage of a splitter/buffer is that you will not have to be quite as concerned about connecting cable lengths or capacitance.

Another idea is to send the DI to the FOH and have them give you a signal for your IEM. I prefer the DI out in ears rather than the Line Out. Both work. Just personal preference.

 

[chadds]

I was responding to the OP. My interpretation was he was hearing an extreme difference between the DI & Line and it was his aforementioned issues that would be the obvious cause. Actually the two do sound different. I do hear the difference enough to use the DI in studio/live to FOH sessions and Line into the IPs. They do both sound exactly Monique.

Kudos to Jule because, I repeat, soundpeople smile during my sound check.

 

[maisbass]

If a signal level drops when a device (any device) is plugged into it that tells us the device being attached has an impedance that is lower than expected by the sending device. That means in your case a buffer of some kind will be required. There are a bunch of signal splitter/buffers out there that should work for your situation. An advantage of a splitter/buffer is that you will not have to be quite as concerned about connecting cable lengths or capacitance.

Another idea is to send the DI to the FOH and have them give you a signal for your IEM. I prefer the DI out in ears rather than the Line Out. Both work. Just personal preference.

Hey Jule. Thanks for the info and reply. I actually don't prefer the tone coming back from FOH because I feel some of the mojo is lost due to the ADA conversion that is happening at my sound engineer's mixing console. He is not using a high end digital console.

I will do some experimenting.

Thanks!

 

[juledude]

Hey Jule. Thanks for the info and reply. I actually don't prefer the tone coming back from FOH because I feel some of the mojo is lost due to the ADA conversion that is happening at my sound engineer's mixing console. He is not using a high end digital console.

I will do some experimenting.

Thanks!

I am with you on sound going through multiple interfaces. More is not always better. It may be the easiest solution in some cases, but I do understand that you might prefer as direct as possible.

The JHS buffered splitter is the kind of thing I would consider for your situation. Invalid Link Removed I have not used it but it sounds like it mighty work.

 

[krispn]

Got the amp back from the tech. He did extensive testing and couldn't see a fault. Could just have been a gremlin day as I tried different cables from the bass to the head as well as alternative speaker cables.

Gonna fire it up tomorrow and enjoy the tones again!

The tech mentioned that he really liked the design and thought the unit sounded great. He was also quite interested in the hypex power module.

Fingers crossed all remains ok from here on in. I really wanna play this head out live.

 

[krispn]

Had a quick play through after waking up (been on night shift since last Thursday) and no issues

Ahh it's a such a great sounding head. I was playing for 45minutes just switching between my two basses and using the sensitivity control before I even touched the eq!. Word is a last minute band rehearsal could be called for tomorrow night. I'm in and bringing the rig!