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Jule Amps Monique Part III

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#261
esa372 said:
I'm sure the same will happen to me when my Monique arrives - but I'll have my F1-X and WP-100 as my other 'flavors'. :hyper:

I've been meaning to ask you, Skies... how did having the fdeck HPF between Monique and the power amp work out?

nostatic thought that it was best not to put anything between pre and power. I respect both of your opinions, so I was wondering if you could share some of your experience having it placed after Monique.

I had thought that the HPF would be best placed after Monique, but nostatic makes a good point about it defeating the purpose of all that wonderful tubeiness.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your views on it, since you've had them both for several months now.

Thanks!
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I don't have ANY problem with the HPF-3 being behind the Monique. I did have to spend some time tweaking gain staging with it as a new intermediate stage (so as not to clip the HPF). The reasoning being that I usually run the bass knob in the 12 to 2 range, so boosted a bit, it shelves (centered around 56hz IIRC) and goes pretty low. The tubes also ADD a harmonic content down low, so having it before the Monique wouldn't necessarily limit the subharmonics.

I know this because I found myself clipping the input on my power amp at the signal level I'm used to feeding it with other pres, but when I rolled the lows back it was fine. I also noted that I was getting what I'd consider high excursion from my drivers. I don't feel that the HPF-3 impacts the harmonic richness or character of the Monique, but does limit the ultrasonic lows.

** also, the HPF gives me some semblance of peace of mind when I share my rig (which I do fairly regularly). While it won't stop someone from cranking the volume, it will at least limit the chances of someone sending huge sublows through my speakers and damaging them.
 
#262
BurningSkies said:
I don't have ANY problem with the HPF-3 being behind the Monique. I did have to spend some time tweaking gain staging with it as a new intermediate stage (so as not to clip the HPF). The reasoning being that I usually run the bass knob in the 12 to 2 range, so boosted a bit, it shelves (centered around 56hz IIRC) and goes pretty low. The tubes also ADD a harmonic content down low, so having it before the Monique wouldn't necessarily limit the subharmonics.

I know this because I found myself clipping the input on my power amp at the signal level I'm used to feeding it with other pres, but when I rolled the lows back it was fine. I also noted that I was getting what I'd consider high excursion from my drivers. I don't feel that the HPF-3 impacts the harmonic richness or character of the Monique, but does limit the ultrasonic lows.

** also, the HPF gives me some semblance of peace of mind when I share my rig (which I do fairly regularly). While it won't stop someone from cranking the volume, it will at least limit the chances of someone sending huge sublows through my speakers and damaging them.
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If I were sharing rig that would be a concern. I'm not sure how much harmonic content Monique is adding below a fundamental though. Jule?
 
#263
nostatic said:
If I were sharing rig that would be a concern. I'm not sure how much harmonic content Monique is adding below a fundamental though. Jule?
Click to expand...

Back when we were first kicking this around, I talked with Jule, FDeck, Dave Green, Passinwind, and a couple others working on or with tube preamps and it was soundly supported that tube preamps can add content. And I believe (and I paraphrase very loosely) Jule said something like "More is more so I consciously didn't limit Monique on the lows"
 
#264
BurningSkies said:
The tubes also ADD a harmonic content down low, so having it before the Monique wouldn't necessarily limit the subharmonics.
Click to expand...
nostatic said:
I'm not sure how much harmonic content Monique is adding below a fundamental though. Jule?
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Hmmm... I just spoke to Jule about this and he said that Monique would definitely not add any sub-harmonics. :confused:
Jule, can you clarify this for us? :help:


BurningSkies said:
I don't feel that the HPF-3 impacts the harmonic richness or character of the Monique, but does limit the ultrasonic lows.
Click to expand...
Good to hear!
Thank You. :)
 
#266
BurningSkies said:
Back when we were first kicking this around, I talked with Jule, FDeck, Dave Green, Passinwind, and a couple others working on or with tube preamps and it was soundly supported that tube preamps can add content. And I believe (and I paraphrase very loosely) Jule said something like "More is more so I consciously didn't limit Monique on the lows"
Click to expand...

I know they can add harmonics - just not sure about sub harmonics. Also not sure what Minnie does (it may have HPF baked in).
 
#267
Fat240 said:
With using the CrownXTI, the only function's of the DSP that I use is the HPF and the -3db limiter. I honestly cannot tell a difference when I have the DSP enabled or off.
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Where is the HPF? That's sort of the important question. The FDeck unit is set @ 30hz(?) IIRC. And yes, it doesn't change the sound of your rig, it changes the sound of the room. :)
 
#269
Quick update, I did try the 2 channel solution, and I really like it. I have one path that is bass to Monique to the return on amp 1, and the other path is bass to verellen to the return on amp 2. Each preamp is doing what it should on its own. I run the Monique through a 4x10 that handles 70% of the volume/output and the verellen is into a 2x10 with the remainder. Just what I wanted, but I didn't know until I tried.
 
#271
BurningSkies said:
In other Monique news, I've been using a Sylvania 6SL7 NOS/JAN in the V1 of my Monique since late fall, when I had the RCA blackplate JAN go bad. And it may be totally psychological, but I really miss the RCA. I can't explain in specifics, but I really liked the bottom end that the RCA had, more weight and extension and the Sylvania seems a bit 'cold' to me. I haven't really had any money to throw at it lately though, and a new one will probably run me a good chunk of change.
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Not your imagination. I have used a Sylvania in the second position as it doesn't have a sonic effect. The RCAs sound excellent.

The new Russian Rectifier tubes make for punchier more complex forward mids than the relaxed old RCA in that position.
 
#272
Fat240 said:
24db butterworth @ 35 hz, I guess I was trying to say that the HPF is in the Power amp and it does not effect Moniques tonal output.
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So you're basically running a very similar HPF in the same position I do, after the Monique, before the power stage...and oddly, you're getting the same result! :)

chadds said:
Not your imagination. I have used a Sylvania in the second position as it doesn't have a sonic effect. The RCAs sound excellent.

The new Russian Rectifier tubes make for punchier more complex forward mids than the relaxed old RCA in that position.
Click to expand...

I've had a bunch of Sylvania tubes (12AX7, 12AU7, 5751, 6SL7, etc) and they all sound kind of cold and clinical to me. I've liked the RCA's the best and the GE's as a second best. I know that's a vast generalization, but its one that works for me.

I ended up with a sweet sweet (then NOS) GE branded Mullard (Blackburn) made rectifier for stupid cheap and that's been in the Monique since last summer. I just haven't had the nerve to spend the extra bucks right now on a 60-100$ tube. The last blackplate 6SL7 JAN/NOS didn't last very long...but it sounded so good when it did work.

...But then, I also haven't bought bass strings since 2008. ;)
 
#274
nostatic said:
I know they can add harmonics - just not sure about sub harmonics. Also not sure what Minnie does (it may have HPF baked in).
Click to expand...

It is pretty easy to accurately see (oscilloscope with audio oscillator input) low end principals and harmonics in the testing environment that every Monique goes through. In testing we run from 20K to 5 HZ, just to confirm all is as it should be - not that you and I want that full range. There just isn't any sound coming out of Monique unless you and I put it there.

Everything there shows up very well on the scope. We would be able to see sub-harmonics if they were being generated by Monique. She does not do so.

If a tube is adding low or high end (high end are much more prevalent) harmonics then it is a bad tube. I have seen this occasionally with micro-phonic tubes. Often in this case you can tap the glass envelope of the tube and you will see (oscilloscope) the harmonic developing. Kinda fun to watch, but not good for performance.
 
#276
B'Boom said:
At the moment, we can buy tube RCA 6SL7GT - VT229 dating 1940s at Cryoset store for 70$ each.
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=369&osCsid=e4m0cjj2bnkg77k74htqu0s6g7
I ordered four tubes : two for Monique and two others for my Alessandro Basset hound amp.
Do not ask me how is the tone, because I have not settled them yet.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced that cryo is worth much when it comes to tubes...I think I'd rather save the 30 bucks and spend it on a spare.
 
#280
chadds said:
A gym sock under the strings accomplishes the same thing. :)
Click to expand...

As a former basketball player I say, "ouch." :)

Want to thank my current customers for their patience with production delays this week. We are getting back on schedule in part because my son took time off from his day job to work with me this week. He is a more crazy/hard worker than I am. His day job is installing wiring in new Apple Stores around the world. His next stop is Berlin.

We are also enlisting the skills of Dallas Electronics, a company here in Santa Cruz who already does wiring for Burl Audio and Universal Audio. The owner started out doing point to point wiring for the Apollo Moon Mission electronics. She was excited to see what I'm doing with Monique.
 
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