just popped for a Yamahiko

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Mike Arnopol, Jan 9, 2015.


  1. SamuelHarris

    SamuelHarris Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    Detroit MI USA
    Flat back, how would you describe the difference in sound between the two elements bridged and the two elements sent to seperate channels? Have you tried running the two elements into the two channels of your focus?

    And I hear you about the tube amp. I once sat in on a jam session on my upright and sent my realist into the electric bassists' Aguilar db750 and 410 cab. It wasn't that it was loud, it just filled every nook and cranny of that place. Best my bass has ever sounded!
     
  2. Maple

    Maple Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    I thought I'd through this out there - Just got back from a workshop gig where I was able to quickly dial in a really nice sound with the yamahiko and ischell through a felix. Usually, there isn't much time to set up and tinker. This time, I was there a little early and got some help from the instructor before the rest of the band showed up.

    Afterward, I looked through the Felix manual hoping to find a knob setting notes page and didn't find any so I just whipped up a PDF (attached below). It's two pages and if you print it double sided, there's room for a hole puncher. ishell yama.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    s0707, Earl and Vunz like this.
  3. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Interesting,
    The settings for the Ischell are where you'd expect them to be, very flat while the Yamahiko is rolled back a bit. The HPF's on both channels are set higher than I'd use, but that's the beauty of the Grace Felix. You've
    favored the Ischell in the mix which makes perfect sense as well. That choice should give you a warmer sound.

    Ric
     
  4. SamuelHarris

    SamuelHarris Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    Detroit MI USA
    Is the yamahiko single or dual sensor?
     
  5. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    I didn't know about those eq blank pages....Totally useful.
     
  6. Maple

    Maple Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Hah, I marked the ischell's HPF wrong on the chart - it wasn't at noon but instead, at the 20hz (off) position. I use the default HPF built into the Ischell. I like to leave it that way so I can easily go simple and plug directly into an amp.

    This wasn't an exhaustive tuning effort - I had about 5 minutes of knob turning before it was time to start playing.

    About a month ago, I spent some quality time at home with my headphones on dialing in the two pickups through the felix. I don't remember those settings but it did involve some sculpting to the Ischell. But the result was that at the gig, I plugged in with those settings it just sounded bad through the amp. And so from then until just now, I was not using the Yamahiko outside of home.

    Its a dual sensor

    I just made them - I had these on an old SWR manual and missed them with all the knobs on the felix.

    BTW, I'd like to see some of you (@Ric Vice and @flatback and others) mark up some of these sheets and post them.
    I feel like I was just scratching the surface with these settings.
     
  7. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    J'ya know I never even try'd the eq the way you have it...But I try'd it since and I think it works better....Having the mid eq on the upper range (dip 3,4 up) I had it that way tonight and it sounded great on the Ischell. I gotta experiment some more with it, I thought the useful range was the lower....
     
    Earl likes this.
  8. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    Actually I just went and messed with it and at least on my bass, the dips need to be set to the lower range to be effectual in the sound.
     
    Ric Vice likes this.
  9. Maple

    Maple Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Mark up a sheet and post it!
     
  10. richhansen

    richhansen

    Oct 2, 2006
    Utah
    Endorser of the KSM Foundation Bridge.
    I got my Yamahiko single element with the 1/40NC threads yesterday, and installed it on my old Juzek. I'm very impressed with it. I agree with Mike Arnopol about the sound being reminiscent of the full circle, but a lot more natural. The construction is also far more robust and better designed than the full circle. Having the microdot connectors that you can disconnect from the element is great. I will have to wait a week to see how it is on the gig, but running it through my AI Clarus (cutting some mids) and MAS 4-6 cabinet it sounds great. It has a nice punch that should cut through the mix nicely in difficult rooms. It blends well with my Ischell as well.
    It's a keeper for sure.
     
    Earl, flatback and DaveAceofBass like this.
  11. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    I just had the Yamahiko installed on my Contrabassetto (small bodied bass with full size neck) I put both sides on rather then splitting the pickups between my two basses and I have just gotten around to mixing the two using the stereo jack that Kiyohiko made for me, so that each channel can be eq'd in the Felix and mixed with their phase inverted and one dominant in the mix (both those things make a big difference) man that is sounding really great on this little bass. I know it is overkill but it sure sounds good.
     
    Bassguyrob and Chris Fitzgerald like this.
  12. Bassguyrob

    Bassguyrob

    Jan 17, 2003
    Spokane WA
    What are you using to blend the signals and to deal with any potential phase issues?
     
  13. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    THe Grace Felix allows you to have one cord from your instrument (with a stereo jack) and then it splits it into each channel which can be phase inverted HPF'd and eq'd separately. It has a blend knob (in addition to setting the gains independently) which allows you to choose which is dominant. I mostly use it flat but favoring the G side pickup with the phase inverted on the E side and the HPF on that up a bit. Very clear yet thumpy. If you leave the phase uninverted on one channel it is like tying the two pickups together but with the eq and blend.
     
    Ric Vice and Bassguyrob like this.
  14. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    BTW in agreement with Mike Arnopol on this (after a lot of experimentation) a phase dial on one channel for this type setup would be so useful. As far as I can tell the only device that allows this is the EA doubler. Why? I guess I am going to try and get a doubler, anybody have one they want to loan out? Why is a phase dial so rare?
    THe rub is this: if you have two pickups that are identical and on opposite sides of a bridge, the way they interact causes phase cancelations (some of which can be helpful and some not) If the pickups are out of phase (one pickup with phase reversed) the sound (of both pickups blended) is super thick, too thick. It can be thinned with eq and HPF but is seems counter intuitive, it feels like the RIGHT phase relationship is somewhere in between (and may change slightly in different rooms) Ideally a preamp like the Felix would have the possibility to adjust this relationship. An external box would be a drag because it would also need to be an impedance buffer (because if you put it after the preamp the two ch. would already be blended.)
     
  15. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg

    Jul 7, 2004
    Chicago
    The pickups have to be identical to be out of phase?
     
  16. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    I think ( I could be wrong) that any two pickups across the same circuit can be out of phase. So, say if you had a single element Yamahiko and something
    else, they could also be out of phase. Walter Woods older MI Amps, had a phase switch that worked pretty well. The variable phase on
    the EA Doubler is a bit more sophisticated. The difference, at least on the Walter Woods, was audible but also subtile. It was there to help eliminate feedback.


    Ric
     
  17. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    As it turns out, in my experience, mixing a stat B and Yamahiko does not have the issue even though they are on opposite sides of the bridge (Stat B E side and Yamahiko G side) that by the way is an excellent (also overkill) sound. I would use it except that the Stat B needs it's own cord AND the 12v internal jumper on the Felix which then renders that channel only for Stat B use. If I was dedicated to that pickup I would do it but the 2 sided Y pickup with one cord into the Felix is pretty cool...the two sides sound similar yet emphasize different parts of the sound (G side mids and low mids and E side Bass and low mids) so using the blend knob is like an eq by itself.
     
  18. Chris Symer

    Chris Symer

    Dec 13, 2009
    Seattle,Wa.
    I run my Stat B and an Ehrlund into my Felix with a stereo cord powering the Stat on channel 2 and sending the Ehrlund to channel 1. I can use the Stat mono cord and run the Remic on channel 1 if I wish, or turn off the 12volt dip switch and run whatever I want into the thing. I don’t understand why you think setting one (or both) channels for 12volts means you are stuck with it. Internal jumpers let you set which channel (1, 2, neither or both) you want to send the 12v to, you can set where it goes ( tip or sleeve ) on each one and the dip switch turns it on or off.
     
  19. statsc

    statsc Supporting Member

    Apr 23, 2010
    Burlington, VT
    Man; this sounds way complicated; my head hurts reading it! You guys should just get a ToneDexter, make some wave maps, get rid of your mic, and be done with it!
     
    Ric Vice and flatback like this.
  20. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    Hey Chris, The reason is this: if you turn on the 12v it voids the impedance settings on that channel...instead of it being 20M or 10M it is super low impedance making that ch not suitable for a piezo. For a Remic it does not matter it is a mic and Im not sure about a Ehrlund. I can make it work using the Y on ch 2 and the Stat B on ch 1...then I can use the Remic on ch 1 but ...in terms of this setup with the Y being split to two channels, it can sound really un piezo like and good (like you don't need a mic) so I am digging that especially with the no feedback. Honestly the Stat B, Y combo into the Felix sounds as good as anything and I am certainly at this point way beyond just having a good choice or two, I have a lot: THe Y and Remic are way good, the Y and Ischell are stellar on my big bass (just the Ischell on my big bass is utterly fantastic) but getting the right sound for the little travel bass has been a challange. So far the two Y pickups split is crazy good, while contact mics or other pickups can emphasize the mids too much and in an unpleasant way...If I had the phase dial I'll bet I could find the sweet spot super easy and quick.
     
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