Kanye West

[superheavyfunk]

People that don't consider hip hop real music or see its roots in funk, rock, and poetry should wear a dunce cap and sit in the corner.

+10

 

[bass12]

There's plenty of non-pop rap out there. Dalek is one that comes to mind- the backing beats and music is often really dark and noise-oriented.

Well, that depends on how you define pop. Of course there's lots of hip-hop that is less "commercial" in design than what Kanye and his ilk have to offer, but I'd argue it's still very much pop.

 

[SirMjac28]

"I am not going to deny it takes time and effort to make a beat, but the talent part is minimal at best, it takes a good ear and in Kanye's case, well secured licensing rights to old hits. If you start with a hit song, it makes it a lot easier to make a hit song".


I agree I mean it's not real music and anyone with a good ear can take an old song add some senseless minimal talented beats and make a hit song I mean it doesn't matter if the music of some of these old artists who today's kids never heard of gets some new legs? I have a really good ear so I'm off to make a hit song wish me luck.

 

[bass12]

I agree I mean it's not real music and anyone with a good ear can take an old song add some senseless minimal talented beats and make a hit song I mean it doesn't matter if the music of some of these old artists who today's kids never heard of gets some new legs? I have a really good ear so I'm off to make a hit song wish me luck.

What is "real" music?

 

[lucathakid]

Kanye wasn't always a millionaire and he Didnt always have a team of label guys at his disposal to clear any sample he wants. There's a reason he made it to the top and its not because of American idol . Fact is a lot of people think rap is just talking over a beat someone made by pushing buttons on a machine. And dj ing is just moving records back and forth. There's a bunch of dead folks that though the electric guitar wasn't real music when it came out. I guess this is just the new wave.

 

[bluesblaster]

Music would imply that there is a melody of some sort somewhere in the song, rap is a cousin of the beat poets IMO, instead of bongos they sample electronic beats from a machine and/or a computer. Its something.... what, is for history to decide. If your a fan can you do the rest of us a favor and turn it down a couple notches at the traffic light, theres nothing more annoying after a long day at work then when some little punk with his hat on sideways has his super turbo bass hiphop jams going full tilt, have a little respect rap fans, its all Im sayin

 

[MatticusMania]

If your a fan can you do the rest of us a favor and turn it down a couple notches at the traffic light, theres nothing more annoying after a long day at work then when some little punk with his hat on sideways has his super turbo bass hiphop jams going full tilt, have a little respect rap fans, its all Im sayin

Generalizing much?

 

[David Jayne]

Saw him on SNL recently. Maybe I don't get it.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

A keyboard is a layout- it doesn't have to have any piano sounds in it at all (no one's going to mistake a Moog for a Steinway once you play it). And again, the only reason you can just sit down and play it is because someone already loaded it with software and samples. That's a very bizarre way of trying to define what an instrument is. That's like saying a bass isn't an instrument if it doesn't have strings on it because you can't just sit down and play it. Of course it is- just put the strings on and play.

And chord progressions can't be copyrighted. There's a reason why most rock songs sound like a song you've heard before. It's because most of the progressions have been played umpteen times before in other hit songs. Most orchestral musicians spend most of their lives playing other people's music. I've never heard an orchestra and said, "Pffft, they're not musicians- they're just playing someone else's music!"

The beats in rap are seldom the thing that interests me most anyways. It's the rhythm of the phrasing. I even listen to some rappers whose lyrics I really dislike if their rapping skills are great. That's music in and of itself- a great rapper is like a great drummer. Keeping up 3-5 minutes of non-repeating constantly spoken lyrics continually phrased in interesting rhythms is not even close to easy, and is an art in and of itself to me.

Ok, since an MPC is an instrument why don't you go play me a G major 7. Oh, wait, you cannot do that... samplers are not instruments, sorry. That is like saying a looper is an instrument.

The analogy of it being like a bass without strings makes no sense, since a keyboard does come loaded with sounds, unless it is a MIDI controller, then it isn't called a keyboard, it is a piano style MIDI interface.

Chord progressions cannot be copyrighted, but melodies can be. It is the melody that makes a great song, and there is a big difference between using a I-vi-IV-V in whatever key and using the melody to "Don't Stop Believing", the latter being song stealing in my opinion. And since now you have to license music when you sample it, it would appear everybody else agreed that sampling was tantamount to stealing.

I don't get the orchestra comparison, that is like a cover band, nobody said hip hop isn't full of talented performers but I will say they aren't creative in a musical sense.

I enjoy a good rapper but the sad fact is that rap/hip hop is the most conceded genre, as I said before no other genres spends nearly as much time talking about how much better they are than everybody else or about how much stuff they own/money they can afford to waste.

I don't think other genres would be so tolerant of such petty self-serving lyrics. Could you imagine a jazz singer who just sings about how her **** don't stink and she has 7 cars in her garage? It'd would be rather pathetic quite frankly.

 

[SirMjac28]

What is "real" music?

I was being sarcastic but that is a really good question.

 

[SirMjac28]

What is "real" music?

+1 Well said I'm out of here and everyone keep rocking,rapping,Dj'ing and doing whatever you do to make music no matter if it's beating two pots together never let anyone tell you it's not "real music"

 

[Kmonk]

I can't stand him or his so-called music. He is an idiot. Three incidents pretty much sum up everything you need to know about him.

Incident #1: Hurricane Katrina

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Kanye West participated in a televised Red Cross program to raise money for Hurricane Katrina survivors. Instead of reflecting upon the horrors of Hurricane Katrina, Kanye West decided it was the perfect time to announce George W. Bush was a racist.

In one of the most controversial moments ever said on national television, Kanye West said the following:

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."


Incident #2 AMA LOSER!

At the American Music Awards, Kanye was up for the Best New Artist award, but he ultimately lost out to the country star.
This resulted in Kanye leaving the show, causing one of the most controversial moments to hit the AMAs.

When asked later about the incident, he said "I'm not going to give any politically correct (expletive) comment. I was the best new artist this year."

Incident 3#: Taylor Swift

As Taylor Swift began thanking the crowd for winning in the Best Female Video Category, Kanye ruined the moment by storming the stage and taking the microphone away from 19-year-old Swift.

"Yo Taylor, I'm really happy for you," began West, "But Beyonce has one of the best videos of all time. One of the best videos of all time!"

 

[topo morto]

Ok, since an MPC is an instrument why don't you go play me a G major 7. Oh, wait, you cannot do that... samplers are not instruments, sorry. That is like saying a looper is an instrument.

An MPC has a couple of ways to play a G major 7, which is a couple more ways than a drum kit...

But even if it isn't an instrument
(I'd call it a sampling workstation - others would call it a drum machine, or a sequencer) why is that so important? A lot of music beautiful to the ears can't be played with the fingers...

 

[lucathakid]

Every genre of music has traditional themes. Blues being sad heart broken, gospel about faith. Just so happens rap lyrics are traditionally about having dope sneakers and partying. You have to understand where the music came from to understand how it got to where it is. This music or genre of music was made by dirt poor kids that Didnt have access to any type instruments or instruction. So they created their own sound using stereo equipment turntables and microphones at parties. And what were the lyrics about, things they wanted things they were proud to have, how cool they wanted to be the girls they got and the street people they idolized. Pretty innovative considering its the most popular genre of music today and it was Literally created from scraps. Yeah there's a lot of terrible rap music and its popular. There's a lot of terrible rock music too. I work at a music distribution company I hear terrible music from a lot of different genres daily.

 

[Nev375]

In one of the most controversial moments ever said on national television, Kanye West said the following:

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."

In all fairness it's a 50/50 statement. He was bound to get one right by accident at some point and that time, he did.

 

[iamlowsound]

I liked his first album, but I can't stand him anymore. If I want to listen to someone with REAL talent, I listen to Macklemore.

lowsound

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Ok, since an MPC is an instrument why don't you go play me a G major 7. Oh, wait, you cannot do that... samplers are not instruments, sorry. That is like saying a looper is an instrument.

The analogy of it being like a bass without strings makes no sense, since a keyboard does come loaded with sounds, unless it is a MIDI controller, then it isn't called a keyboard, it is a piano style MIDI interface.

I'm not sure how you're not getting it. A keyboard doesn't have to have loaded sounds. I can tear the soundcard out. It's still an instrument because you can music music with it by loading another one in. A guitar doesn't have to come with strings. You can cut them off. Put a new set one and you can make music with it. An MPC can be loaded with whatever samples or MIDI files you want and you can make music with it. Judging what "is" an instrument simply by saying anything that fits "what is the least amount of effort I need to exude to make it make noise" is ludicrous. If you don't teach someone how to play a GM7 on a piano, they won't be able to play it either. That doesn't mean the piano isn't an instrument MIDI keyboard controllers (generally) have no samples loaded into them at all. You have to plug them into a brain or sampler. Play a Beethoven piece on one and....you're not playing an instrument? That's got to be the silliest idea of what an instrument is that I've ever heard.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Music would imply that there is a melody of some sort somewhere in the song

No it wouldn't. Music just need the presence of melody, rhythm, or harmony, or any combination thereof. Otherwise you'd be dismissing all the drum musics that have been prevalent around the world for centuries.

 

[keithbroussard]

An MPC is an instrument :scowl: I know you said don't get defensive, but I consider it important to defend hip hop. This attitude is far too prevalent, particularly on TalkBass. To create music is to be a musician, and nobody has the right to define the parameters of who is "in" and who is "out" of the club. More consideration goes into producing a good beat on an MPC than most people in half-assed rock bands are even capable of.

Do you listen to any hip hop? Most people with this attitude have never heard anything except the utter BS on the radio. Hip hop hasn't been an important culture, as well as music, since the 80s for nothing.

I'm not going to say you're doing an incredible disservice to hip hop culture because it will, for better or worse, continue despite these ridiculous opinions. Probably even thrive off of them.

For the record I grew up on cajun and country music as a young lad then I got into rock and metal in my teen years. My taste progressed into heavier as well as more diverse styles of music. I have been into everybody from george jones to the beatles to napalm death to iron maiden to Frank Sinatra and the list goes on. I also like big band/swing and doo-wop as well as blues and opera and classical. I try to keep an open mind when it comes to "music". And when I listen to radio I toggle back and forth between talk radio and k-love. I do believe that rap/hip-hop is heard on the "radio" if I'm correct. That would be where the "utter BS" is heard according to you right? So by default and using your logic kayne is "utter BS"...?

And no I do not listen to rap/hip-hop because I appreciate (and prefer) musicianship and musical talent (kanye is as much a musician as the spice girls but at least they were nice to look at for a while and a few of them could at least half-ass sing UNLIKE kanye). If I wanted to "listen" to an "entertainer" I would probably pick taylor swift. She's the "entertainer" that kanye pulled a big time douche-bag move on if you remember correctly. I would label that a "disservice" to a fellow "entertainer" who "earned" that particular award that evening.

As many here have already stated an MPC is NOT a musical instrument. The mindset according to you is: countless stolen samples + roland drum pattern #xxx + "speaking in a rhythmic manner" + overly slick production = creating music? The "attitude is far too prevalent" for a reason...ask any REAL musician and they will be more than happy to tell you. Especially the ones in those "half-assed rock bands" that you mentioned earlier. I'm sure they appreciate you talking down about their attempt at actually creating and writing their OWN music on instruments they can actually play. Also ask the guys in dream theater how much "consideration" they put into their music. On a side note kanye's band actually CAN play...but alas they are actual musicians.

And because I don't view kanye as a musician I am doing an entire culture a disservice? The "culture" needs to put their big boy pants on and not be so sensitive. It's just a little bit ironic for a culture who acts "hardcore" and "from the street" if you ask me. Much to my dislike hip-hop/rap will continue to thrive as it's (usual) lyrical shallowness and stolen music samples are "crafted" to appeal to the lowest common denominator. And the same idea applies to most all uber popular music also. I hope I didn't offend anyone here with my little reply. Once again I hope everybody has a good day/evening.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

An MPC has a couple of ways to play a G major 7, which is a couple more ways than a drum kit...

But even if it isn't an instrument
(I'd call it a sampling workstation - others would call it a drum machine, or a sequencer) why is that so important? A lot of music beautiful to the ears can't be played with the fingers...

I come from the school of Paul Stanley, if you can't play your song on an acoustic guitar it isn't a song.

I'm not sure how you're not getting it. A keyboard doesn't have to have loaded sounds. I can tear the soundcard out. It's still an instrument because you can music music with it by loading another one in. A guitar doesn't have to come with strings. You can cut them off. Put a new set one and you can make music with it. An MPC can be loaded with whatever samples or MIDI files you want and you can make music with it. Judging what "is" an instrument simply by saying anything that fits "what is the least amount of effort I need to exude to make it make noise" is ludicrous. If you don't teach someone how to play a GM7 on a piano, they won't be able to play it either. That doesn't mean the piano isn't an instrument MIDI keyboard controllers (generally) have no samples loaded into them at all. You have to plug them into a brain or sampler. Play a Beethoven piece on one and....you're not playing an instrument? That's got to be the silliest idea of what an instrument is that I've ever heard.

A guitar without strings isn't an instrument though, you cannot make music with it aside from banging on it. That is like saying a hammer is still a tool without the head, it then becomes just a handle. By your standard anything is a musical instrument then because I can bang on anything and make noise.

Any single person on this forum can sit down with a keyboard and make it play music in some form, I would wager that with pretty well any instrument from brass to woodwind. Nobody here can make a single note from an MPC without pre-loading sounds into it. Not an instrument.

Is your recording station an instrument because you can arrange music on it? I don't think anybody here would call it one.