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Kanye West

#81
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Nicely done :D
My daughter loves Taylor Swift. It's perfectly good pop music. A lot better than most of the pop I grew up listening to, and better than a lot of pop out there now.
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I agree with you, love her new album.

On Kanye:
"DON'T LET ME GET IN MAH ZONE!"
(sorry)
I've only listened to a little bit of his first album (I'm going to listen to the whole thing soon just gotta have the time to sit and listen to hip-hop) I think his work with JAY-Z is pretty good (JAY-Z's flow is much better). From what I've heard he's no Q-tip or Phife Dawg. I've got a friend who really likes Kanye (he's not a Hip-hop head and he has a general good taste in music, so something about Kanye has to be good).

Kanye is EXTREMELY self-centered.
 
#84
Geezaloo. I never quite understood people's passion against rap/hip hop. Is it really all that serious?

Personally I think sampling is an art-form. Being to pull different instruments, from different songs, by different artist, in different keys, at different tempos, and being able to build all of that in to a cohesive song takes talent. If you don't believe so, please give it a go and tell us of your successes as a hip hop producer. Now is this the same as sitting down playing an instrument? I don't believe so, but to act as if it requires no skill is silly.

I'll agree much of the mainstream rap/hip hop isn't all that great, but isn't this true of most pop music. They make throw away music aimed at selling a product at the masses, that isn't always a fair representation of the genre they cleave to. There's good and bad in every genre of music, unfortunately it seems that the bad gets more airplay than the good. For instance, most anyone under 30 can recognize the pic below on the left, but you would be hard pressed to find someone who could identify the guy on the right, who IMO is infinitely more talented than the other. But, he doesn't fit the image that mainstream hip hop is pushing so you will likely never hear of him if you don't do some looking, which isn't likely if you're already completely turned off to the genre.

The guy on the right is Phonte Coleman btw one of my favorites. Raps and sings with the foreign exhange with no autotune... well maybe a little. ;)

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQ-BRuFb9URvJlOgkY9RfsysoGDz9yr-JRJXhgME0PEVGaSp5TEA.jpg
holidays.jpg


I understand and don't have a problem with people not liking rap/hip hop, but saying stuff like, it's not real music or it appeals to the lowest common denominator? Certainly we are above this. :hmm:

As far a Kanye, some of his older tunes were nice. He's just too over the top as of late.
 
#85
DiabolusInMusic said:
Ok, since an MPC is an instrument why don't you go play me a G major 7. Oh, wait, you cannot do that... samplers are not instruments, sorry. That is like saying a looper is an instrument.
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Cowbells, bongos, timpani, maracas, triangles, congas, djembes, cajons - just a few instruments you can't play a G major 7 with. Come on - that argument is ridiculous. And because something is not classified as an instrument doesn't mean that it can't be used as an instrument. Take, for example, the cajon - not an instrument to begin with but became a fundamental instrument where various styles of music are concerned. The idea that because an object needs to be "loaded" with a sound it isn't an instrument doesn't hold much water for me either. A horn doesn't make sound without a breath and an electronic keyboard doesn't make sound without (most likely) a sample. Turntables were not traditionally thought of as being instruments but they have, in the past few decades, been used to great effect as just that - instruments. People have always had a knack for making "non-instruments" into instruments and it's cool to see that spirit persisting today.
 
#86
DiabolusInMusic said:
I
A guitar without strings isn't an instrument though, you cannot make music with it aside from banging on it. That is like saying a hammer is still a tool without the head, it then becomes just a handle. By your standard anything is a musical instrument then because I can bang on anything and make noise.
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Of course anything can be an instrument. If you make music with it, it's a musical instrument. An instrument requiring you to take a bit of effort to make it create particular sounds is still an instrument; it just says a lot more about the "musician" who refuses to play anything that requires a bit of work than the instrument. And yes, a guitar is an instrument when it doesn't have strings. You put the strings on and you can play it.

Is your recording station an instrument because you can arrange music on it? I don't think anybody here would call it one.
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If you can use it to create music, then of course it is.

It's remarkably sad that the biggest opposition to the expansion of creative music is the prejudices and closed minds of other musicians.
 
#87
DiabolusInMusic said:
I come from the school of Paul Stanley, if you can't play your song on an acoustic guitar it isn't a song.
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Even by a wider definition of song there's still lots of music that isn't 'a song' - Holst's The Planets isn't a song, and nor is some guy playing the didgeridoo, and it's true that most hip-hop tracks mightn't be called 'songs' either. But definitions of words - whether 'song', 'instrument', or even 'music' - will always be debatable and ultimately deficient. Do they really matter as long as someone enjoys a noise?
 
#88
keithbroussard said:
For the record I grew up on cajun and country music as a young lad then I got into rock and metal in my teen years. My taste progressed into heavier as well as more diverse styles of music. I have been into everybody from george jones to the beatles to napalm death to iron maiden to Frank Sinatra and the list goes on. I also like big band/swing and doo-wop as well as blues and opera and classical. I try to keep an open mind when it comes to "music". And when I listen to radio I toggle back and forth between talk radio and k-love. I do believe that rap/hip-hop is heard on the "radio" if I'm correct. That would be where the "utter BS" is heard according to you right? So by default and using your logic kayne is "utter BS"...?

And no I do not listen to rap/hip-hop because I appreciate (and prefer) musicianship and musical talent (kanye is as much a musician as the spice girls but at least they were nice to look at for a while and a few of them could at least half-ass sing UNLIKE kanye). If I wanted to "listen" to an "entertainer" I would probably pick taylor swift. She's the "entertainer" that kanye pulled a big time douche-bag move on if you remember correctly. I would label that a "disservice" to a fellow "entertainer" who "earned" that particular award that evening.

As many here have already stated an MPC is NOT a musical instrument. The mindset according to you is: countless stolen samples + roland drum pattern #xxx + "speaking in a rhythmic manner" + overly slick production = creating music? The "attitude is far too prevalent" for a reason...ask any REAL musician and they will be more than happy to tell you. Especially the ones in those "half-assed rock bands" that you mentioned earlier. I'm sure they appreciate you talking down about their attempt at actually creating and writing their OWN music on instruments they can actually play. Also ask the guys in dream theater how much "consideration" they put into their music. On a side note kanye's band actually CAN play...but alas they are actual musicians.

And because I don't view kanye as a musician I am doing an entire culture a disservice? The "culture" needs to put their big boy pants on and not be so sensitive. It's just a little bit ironic for a culture who acts "hardcore" and "from the street" if you ask me. Much to my dislike hip-hop/rap will continue to thrive as it's (usual) lyrical shallowness and stolen music samples are "crafted" to appeal to the lowest common denominator. And the same idea applies to most all uber popular music also. I hope I didn't offend anyone here with my little reply. Once again I hope everybody has a good day/evening. :bassist:
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What does what you grew up on have to do with it? I grew up on Coltrane and Muddy Waters. I listen to a very, very wide range of music, but I'm not quite sure how that's relevant.

Yes, I do consider Kanye, currently, to be utter BS. Your whole concept of hip hop culture is based off of the whackest representations that are playing a game to make a buck. None of them have much to do with hip hop culture at all. Hip hop isn't just music, it's an attitude. Amiri Baraka is just as hip hop as Wu-Tang. Thelonious Monk is probably the most hip hop cat there ever was.

An MPC IS an instrument. The OED says an instrument is: "That which is used by an agent in or for the performance of an action; a thing with or through which something is done or effected; anything that serves or contributes to the accomplishment of a purpose or end; a means". You know, like a tool, or implement. Do I have to make where I'm going with this any more clear?

This idea that hip hop is "stolen samples" "roland drum pattern" "overly slick production" "speaking in a rhythmic manner" all comes from, once again, your idea of hip hop. You've got the wrong end of the stick. As for asking a REAL musician... I can point to countless great, great musicians who are highly respectful of, and indebted to hip hop culture. D'Angelo, Prince, Michael Jackson, James Poyser, Michael League, J Dilla (he's a producer but he played many of the drum, bass and keys samples that he used). This could be a very long list. Hell, Robert Glasper blew up in a more mainstream sense recently when he decided to blend the two musics he loves and grew up with (hip hop and jazz) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25IGnjE-iSM - check the way that cat is playing drums, like he's a drum machine. You know, these INSTRUMENTS can influence 'REAL' instruments, too.

As for the "half-assed rock bands" comment, I wasn't taking a dig at the music. I love a lot of different kinds of rock n roll. All I was saying is that it tends to be rock musicians in shi**y bands, playing shi**y renditions that you wouldn't want your dog to hear, that have this stupid attitude cause it doesn't necessarily confirm their world view. All of the "REAL" musicians that I personally know are indebted to hip hop while making their own music of various styles. I'm sure hip hop artists appreciate you talking down about their entire culture based off of what white america considers profitable (a.k.a the idiots). Hell, I bet dream theatre has respect for hip hop producers.

"Hard core"? "From the streets"? Gangsta rap is what you're referring to and, once again, it's a very small part of hip hop culture only amplified by MTV. When hip hop artists mention violence, greed, pride, lust etc, it's not always a representation of the artist, but of the society they come from. Do you think Wu-Tang, when saying, "cash rules everything around me" are saying money is all they care about? Come on. Yes, all "uber popular music" is whack. ALL of it. That includes all "uber popular" hip hop.

Lets take your notions of what hip hop is. If I've understood you correctly, you think it's all stolen samples, basic drum patterns, shallow lyrical content blah blah blah.

J Dilla (best producer of all time, IMO) with Common and D'Angelo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdZK0HeYkwM

MF DOOM (a rapper who wears a mask as a protest to the image fetish in popular hip hop, who is also probably the most clever rapper today) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4iR668Ki3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-9TcDTKa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpaonSDPw7Y

That song ^ is produced by Madlib, a wizard of the MPC and various other INSTRUMENTS who referred to J Dilla as the 'Coltrane of Beats' and was given permission by Blue Note Records to use anything from their vaults to remix their catalogue because they understood his contribution to the culture of urban music. That's right, jazz is urban music, not white americas dinner music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMrJNZaatE

Seriously, look up the way J Dilla flips a sample if you think all he's doing is stealing bits of other songs. At least school yourself before you start talking.

The good thing is all these people that I've mentioned are having a positive effect on hip hop. All the guys who are rising up from the underground now are, in some way, from the MF DOOM school of rapping. All the producers I can think of today, and that's a lot, are 'post-J Dilla'.
https://soundcloud.com/chillchildren/lunch-lightsabers
https://soundcloud.com/chillchildren/gardens
^ A couple of mates of mine whose work you've dismissed, and are very, very clever.

Sorry for the essay. Nah, jokes, I'm not. I can't change your opinion about hip hop, but I hope you at least realise your opinion is based off of a very skewed representation of what hip hop is. If I'm successful, this was worth the time. If I'm not, I'm procrastinating so I don't really care.

Damn, this sh** needs to be a sticky so ignorant cats can be pointed here. Nah, lets go back to talking bout Jamerson and you lot have fun playing Sweet Home Alabama
 
#89
keithbroussard said:
It's rap and by default doesn't qualify as "real" music...not to my ears anyway. This is just my opinion so try to not get all defensive. I'm sure that are but a handful of real musicians who frequent these forums that will classify kanye as a "musician". I prefer people who can either really "sing" or play their own instruments. And that covers most all genre's incuding rock, metal. country, folk, bluegrass, opera and so on but does not include rap or hip-hop or related styles as they are far removed from being "musicians". And my apologies to you if you don't agree. Have a great evening everybody.
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What a cliché response. I'm with you 1,000 percent.
 
#91
Bryan R. Tyler said:
No it wouldn't. Music just need the presence of melody, rhythm, or harmony, or any combination thereof. Otherwise you'd be dismissing all the drum musics that have been prevalent around the world for centuries.
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acoustic drums are capable of playing a melody

Did I not say there needs to be some sort of melody? I never said what instrument it should be played on.


All you urban troubadors out there, If your mouth is your instrument then please use it wisely, all Im sayin.
oh yeah, and turn it down, not everyones a fan.
 
#93
Shakin-Slim said:
What does what you grew up on have to do with it? I grew up on Coltrane and Muddy Waters. I listen to a very, very wide range of music, but I'm not quite sure how that's relevant.

Yes, I do consider Kanye, currently, to be utter BS. Your whole concept of hip hop culture is based off of the whackest representations that are playing a game to make a buck. None of them have much to do with hip hop culture at all. Hip hop isn't just music, it's an attitude. Amiri Baraka is just as hip hop as Wu-Tang. Thelonious Monk is probably the most hip hop cat there ever was.

An MPC IS an instrument. The OED says an instrument is: "That which is used by an agent in or for the performance of an action; a thing with or through which something is done or effected; anything that serves or contributes to the accomplishment of a purpose or end; a means". You know, like a tool, or implement. Do I have to make where I'm going with this any more clear?

This idea that hip hop is "stolen samples" "roland drum pattern" "overly slick production" "speaking in a rhythmic manner" all comes from, once again, your idea of hip hop. You've got the wrong end of the stick. As for asking a REAL musician... I can point to countless great, great musicians who are highly respectful of, and indebted to hip hop culture. D'Angelo, Prince, Michael Jackson, James Poyser, Michael League, J Dilla (he's a producer but he played many of the drum, bass and keys samples that he used). This could be a very long list. Hell, Robert Glasper blew up in a more mainstream sense recently when he decided to blend the two musics he loves and grew up with (hip hop and jazz) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25IGnjE-iSM - check the way that cat is playing drums, like he's a drum machine. You know, these INSTRUMENTS can influence 'REAL' instruments, too.

As for the "half-assed rock bands" comment, I wasn't taking a dig at the music. I love a lot of different kinds of rock n roll. All I was saying is that it tends to be rock musicians in shi**y bands, playing shi**y renditions that you wouldn't want your dog to hear, that have this stupid attitude cause it doesn't necessarily confirm their world view. All of the "REAL" musicians that I personally know are indebted to hip hop while making their own music of various styles. I'm sure hip hop artists appreciate you talking down about their entire culture based off of what white america considers profitable (a.k.a the idiots). Hell, I bet dream theatre has respect for hip hop producers.

"Hard core"? "From the streets"? Gangsta rap is what you're referring to and, once again, it's a very small part of hip hop culture only amplified by MTV. When hip hop artists mention violence, greed, pride, lust etc, it's not always a representation of the artist, but of the society they come from. Do you think Wu-Tang, when saying, "cash rules everything around me" are saying money is all they care about? Come on. Yes, all "uber popular music" is whack. ALL of it. That includes all "uber popular" hip hop.

Lets take your notions of what hip hop is. If I've understood you correctly, you think it's all stolen samples, basic drum patterns, shallow lyrical content blah blah blah.

J Dilla (best producer of all time, IMO) with Common and D'Angelo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdZK0HeYkwM

MF DOOM (a rapper who wears a mask as a protest to the image fetish in popular hip hop, who is also probably the most clever rapper today) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4iR668Ki3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-9TcDTKa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpaonSDPw7Y

That song ^ is produced by Madlib, a wizard of the MPC and various other INSTRUMENTS who referred to J Dilla as the 'Coltrane of Beats' and was given permission by Blue Note Records to use anything from their vaults to remix their catalogue because they understood his contribution to the culture of urban music. That's right, jazz is urban music, not white americas dinner music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMrJNZaatE

Seriously, look up the way J Dilla flips a sample if you think all he's doing is stealing bits of other songs. At least school yourself before you start talking.

The good thing is all these people that I've mentioned are having a positive effect on hip hop. All the guys who are rising up from the underground now are, in some way, from the MF DOOM school of rapping. All the producers I can think of today, and that's a lot, are 'post-J Dilla'.
https://soundcloud.com/chillchildren/lunch-lightsabers
https://soundcloud.com/chillchildren/gardens
^ A couple of mates of mine whose work you've dismissed, and are very, very clever.

Sorry for the essay. Nah, jokes, I'm not. I can't change your opinion about hip hop, but I hope you at least realise your opinion is based off of a very skewed representation of what hip hop is. If I'm successful, this was worth the time. If I'm not, I'm procrastinating so I don't really care.

Damn, this sh** needs to be a sticky so ignorant cats can be pointed here. Nah, lets go back to talking bout Jamerson and you lot have fun playing Sweet Home Alabama
Click to expand...
New Zealand's schooling the U.S. on hip-hop culture! :D

Just teasing - lots of good points made in your post.
 
#99
I'm not a huge fan of modern day rap by any means. But when the opportunity to see him live in concert presented itself for a VERY good price, I went.
And let me tell you, that was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. The production was completely awesome. And at the end of the show when he was thanking people, he put up on the huge screens a camera that was backstage that showed his entire band. It was a huge band that was playing live the entire time. I was blown away that it wasn't just a backtrack he was rapping to. That was very impressive.

Oh, also, N.E.R.D. opened up and that... was by far was a mind blowing experience. Two drummers, two guitarists. two keyboards, a bass player, tons of rappers on stage.
WOW! Those drummers were unbelievable. Check out some YouTube videos of N.E.R.D. on that tour.

http://youtu.be/4aZsbWOd_I0

(drum solos at the end of video)
 
#100
Pumping gas today, me and everyone else around were treated to several very loud, booming verses of f@#k that s#!t.
The guy just left his car running while he went inside, so we could all enjoy that wonderful "music".
It made me think of this thread.
Glad my grandmother or daughter weren't there.
 

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