Never heard a song I like from him and I like a good amount of hip hop. I think it's the auto-tune. I absolutely hate that sound.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Kanye West
- Thread starter DerHoggz
- Start date
Only the first definition. Consider the "or" in the second definition.music (my¡´zîk) noun
Abbr. mus.
1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.
Please notice that - by definition - music contains "melody" and "harmony"...
And I'm going to bet that some of the more respected music dictionaries go into deeper explanations where the term "music" is concerned...
1) I only listed the music I grew up on to let everybody know that I'm not some ignorant backwoods inbred who thinks that hank williams jr is God (no offense if anybody here is a fan
2) The majority of rap/hip-hop as well as most all popular music IS in fact about making a buck. I recall bone-thugs-n-harmony (excuse my misspelling of their name) in a interview where they said "...they can call it gansta, thugsta, whatever...it's all about the money, man". And that is more or less a direct quote. It was from years ago but statements that shallow usually stick with me...
3) I guess that the millions of people who play what are commonly thought as real musical instrument and I will just have to disagree with you on the MPC debate.
4) There are equally as many respected musicians who are NOT indebted to hip-hop culture. And this isn't about producers. While many producers play instruments (Bob Rock and Andy Leroque come to mind) I don't view them as "musicians" unless they are playing that role on that day. Bob Rock played bass with metallica during a show I believe so he was playing the role of musician that day. Metallica and countless other bands write their own music and then the producer helps to fine tune the songs IF need be...he doesn't write them for the band. If kanye needs someone else to "craft" a product for his chosen field that is indeed sad. I watched the video link and yes the drummer is good but doesn't make or break the song. I've seen worse and I've seen better. It was decent for about 30-45 seconds...until the verse/vocals came in and I had to close it out. The band Neurosis has stated that their sound (for a while anyway) was influenced by industrial machine. So you are correct in saying that machines can influence instruments.
5) Having played music in the rock genre for many years I agree that there are countless bands who should no exist and yet they do. But crappy bands/artists exist in ALL genre's. All the "REAL" musicians I know are NOT indebted to hip-hop while writing and crafting their music. And why bring "white america" into this? Do they market kanye's music? Or most hip-hop? Probably not but you are correct as they do know how to market products to the mindless masses (but that isn't just "white america" that does that now is it)? And if dream theater has respect for hip-hop producers then you should feel good about that I suppose. I've never read that in an article but hey stranger things have happened.
6) I was referring to gansta rap but musically the styles are pretty dang similar. And I know that the song content is usually about their society and life experiences. It's their outlet and means of expression I get that. Lot's of people express themselves though music however. And some is listenable and more-than-some is not-so-listenable. And yes ALL popular music is "whack" as you put it.
7) We will have to agree to disagree on what I think constitutes the rap/hip-hop song "writing" process.
8 + 9) Not sure how one argues who is the "best producer"...I very seldom give them any thought. And I tried to listen to your video links and just did not "get it". LOL though at the use of the phrase "clever rapper". I do appreciate a good wordsmith though.
10) I do KNOW that jazz is urban music thank you very much. Not sure why you brought up "white americas dinner music"...what did white america ever do to you? They seem to crap on everybody these days regardless of the color of one's skin.
11) Let me know in english what "flipping a sample" means and I will get back to you on this.
12) Not sure why you continue to bring up "producers" and "clever rappers" in a discussion about kayne...
13) I also enjoy debates but I prefer mine to stay on topic. If I ever want to get into a discussion about hip-hop culture i will PM you
14) "Needs to be a sticky"? "Ignorant cats"? Not sure what that first part means and you insult many musicians with the second part. You DID get the jamerson part right though as he was truly influential and will be remembered LONG after kanye has been forgotten or at least when he isn't relevant anymore (which shouldn't be long given how long rap/hip-hop careers end to last). And I don't play sweet home alabama thank you very much. I'm sure that was a knock on me in some way
When I constantly refer to the producer, it's not the same role as, say, George Martin with the Beatles. In hip hop, a producer is someone who produces the beat. A "beat-maker" if you will. Therefore, all producers are instrumentalists by my definition of an instrument. Flipping a sample is using the sample. "Flipping" refers to the fact that it's used in a completely different sense to its original context, like this: ) That sample has been well and truly flipped
(look at heaps of the comments on that video). I know none of this has been directly associated with the OP, but there was a movement somewhere earlier in the thread to the usual "hip hop sucks" trend. My apologies for aiding in the derail. I can't really help but get my back up, as hip hop threads are the only ones that garner unwarranted opinions from all sorts of people. Nobody goes on a Jamerson thread to give their opinion about him being overrated (I don't think he is, I love Motown almost as much as hip hop), nobody goes on a metal thread just to say metal sucks (I also don't believe that, I just don't listen to it). In every single hip hop thread, though, someone has to say, without being asked, that hip hop is talentless, non-music, which is highly disrespectful, IMO. Maybe one day it'll be more widely accepted, it could be a generational thing. It's like when Coltrane and Dolphy were said to be creating anti-jazz. That's a pretty hurtful statement to two of the three most sincere musicians I can think of (J Dilla being the third). Just like there's a Church of John Coltrane, if I was that way inclined, I'd start a Church of J Dilla, that's what he means to me. Instead of listening to 'A Love Supreme' every week, it'd be 'Donuts', his masterpiece he made while dying in hospital.
"I guess that the millions of people who play what are commonly thought as real musical instrument and I will just have to disagree with you on the MPC debate." - I'm sorry, I don't know how you can speak for the millions of people who play those instruments. There have already been plenty of people on this thread alone stating that an MPC is an instrument. We're going to have to let this one lie, as it's not going anywhere, but I don't know how any tool used to produce music cannot be considered a musical instrument.
A lot of the things I said in my earlier post weren't a dig at you. I don't even know you, dude
, my apologies if they seemed that way. They were digs at frustrating trends on the bass guitar side of TB. (Don't even get me started on the frustrating trends on the dark side of TB) I meant no disrespect to any person in particular, just a collective unconscious that feels like I'm living with my grandparents or something 
My comments about "white america" etc were probably out of line. I'm not referring to white people in particular, as that's a pretty horrible assertion, but to the corporate world which, while dominated by people of all races, is pretty "vanilla"
these are the people who tell the masses what to like and what to listen to. The artist has very little to do with it. I mean, why would good hip hop be considered underground if the masses had taste?I understand the dislike of hip hop. It's just such a shame that hip hop has a bad rep cause of who are considered it's representatives (Kanye
), and insert any other mindless thug that has been and gone 
Come on, clever rapper is not an oxymoron at all
There are very, very many good wordsmiths in hip hop. Finally, I can't agree with you more on Hank Williams Jr and his father. His son is like rubbish hip hop. Some skewed, lame caricature of the real thing.
The ignorance happening in this thread is both disappointing and disgusting. It's one thing for someone to write off an entire genre of music as "not music" and ignore the massive amounts of creativity required to create it, but it's another thing for that attitude to be commonplace in a music-based community. For shame, TB.
Music does not require melody; it is possible for a piece of music to be entirely rhythm-based. Your statement is factually incorrect.
Music does not require melody; it is possible for a piece of music to be entirely rhythm-based. Your statement is factually incorrect.
Three times? And your username is bluesblaster?
Agreed on both counts.
And then whoever said music needs a melody tried to claim that drums can produce a melody. Yeah, sure, but how many drummers tune their kits and then think about the melody? Not many, if any.
Yeah, too bad it wasn't some wholesome rock. Like Robert Plant simulating an orgasm in Whole Lotta Love, ACDC's You Shook Me All Night Long, Aerosmith's Big Ten Inch, Buckcherry's Crazy Bitch, Nine Inch Nail's Closer, Kiss' Lick It Up, etc.
What's funny is that if you look at some of the blues that preceded Coltrane you'd find a lot more in common with the Lil Wayne excerpt than the Coltrane excerpt.Made me think of this:
Made me think of this:
Is that a tiny vestigial saxophone hanging from Wayne's chain?
None of the hip-hop defenders here have mentioned Deltron 3030 yet, so I'll go ahead and do that.
.
.
I mentioned this already in the thread but since there's so much discussion about Kanye's music not being "real music" (whatever the hell that means)...
Check out Kanye's second album, Late Registration.
Co-produced by multi-instrumentalist/composer/producer Jon Brion
Lots of incredible music on that album, really being played by humans.
Kanye apparently was watching "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" and the soundtrack caught his ear and he tracked down Jon the composer and put him to work on "Late Registration"
Pretty awesome for a hip-hop wunderkind (at the time) to have ears that open and to take such a big risk on his sophomore album by bringing in a producer who's never done anything remotely related to hip-hop.
And if you read interviews with Jon Brion about the process of working with Kanye, it's pretty clear the experience gave him a lot of respect for Mister West and his abilities.
Great words too. Anyone who thinks Kanye sticks to boilerplate rapper boasting probably hasn't listened to much of his work.
Check out Kanye's second album, Late Registration.
Co-produced by multi-instrumentalist/composer/producer Jon Brion
Lots of incredible music on that album, really being played by humans.
Kanye apparently was watching "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" and the soundtrack caught his ear and he tracked down Jon the composer and put him to work on "Late Registration"
Pretty awesome for a hip-hop wunderkind (at the time) to have ears that open and to take such a big risk on his sophomore album by bringing in a producer who's never done anything remotely related to hip-hop.
And if you read interviews with Jon Brion about the process of working with Kanye, it's pretty clear the experience gave him a lot of respect for Mister West and his abilities.
Great words too. Anyone who thinks Kanye sticks to boilerplate rapper boasting probably hasn't listened to much of his work.
- Apr 6, 2013
- 425
- 466
- 57
- Disclosures
- Agent for Scandinavian countries: Stick Enterprises Inc.
I used to say that hip-hop was the one music genre I had no intereset in.
Then I found myself working as a musical director at a youth club and hip-hop was the only music they young 'uns were interested in: I asked for advice, listened to a lot of reference CDs and ended up loving a lot of the stuff.
I recorded bass, guitar and keys and helped arranging beats, it is some of the most fun I've had with music.
Reading that samplers are not instruments and that hip-hop is not music reminds me of my own opinions before I actually sat down and listened...
Oh, and Kanye is a jackass. A talented one though
Then I found myself working as a musical director at a youth club and hip-hop was the only music they young 'uns were interested in: I asked for advice, listened to a lot of reference CDs and ended up loving a lot of the stuff.
I recorded bass, guitar and keys and helped arranging beats, it is some of the most fun I've had with music.
Reading that samplers are not instruments and that hip-hop is not music reminds me of my own opinions before I actually sat down and listened...
Oh, and Kanye is a jackass. A talented one though
Funny how a thread specifically about Kanye West turned into a debate about the merits of hip-hop in general. Does that happen to threads about artists in any other genre?
From what I've seen here, it happens in metal and country threads, too. Actually I think the threads are really identical because you have:
Multiple links to bands that no one is going to be swayed by.
Judgment of the genre based on either a few bands or groups (cookie monster vocals, gangsta rap, urban cowboy.)
Judgment of whole genre based on the listeners behavior. You'll see this pop up in jazz and indie band threads as well.
This is just from what I've seen so far
Yeah, too bad it wasn't some wholesome rock. Like Robert Plant simulating an orgasm in Whole Lotta Love, ACDC's You Shook Me All Night Long, Aerosmith's Big Ten Inch, Buckcherry's Crazy Bitch, Nine Inch Nail's Closer, Kiss' Lick It Up, etc.
You consider that hearing:
f@#k that s#!t repeatedly, followed by f@#k that b!#ch, and repeated use of the "N" word
to be on the same "offensive" level as those songs?
Come on.
