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Keyboard Player Is a Piano Player

In the almost 40 years (wow, I just did the math and it really has been that long) that I've been a gigging musician, the majority has been as a keyboard player. There is a big difference between a "piano player" and a "keyboard player". This guy may not know that and how a keyboard needs to fit in a band. Unless there's a signature left hand lick, there's not a lot of work down below E3 (the E below middle C). There's a reason rock organists started leaving the pedals to their B-3s at home. And you have to watch your chord voicings and inversions. A lot of times, piano-turned-keyboard players will try too hard to be technical and try to play full "correct and proper" chords when they're not needed and will clash with the voicings the guitarist(s) play. If the guy's willing to put forth the effort, there may be hope. Talk with him about it. If he doesn't grasp what is needed, let him go.

As for the guy's "cheap" Yamaha and its lack of appropriate and/or needed tones (Rhodes, Wurly, Hammond), Yamaha makes several really good (and some not so cheap) digital pianos that don't have all the bells and whistles. My bottom keyboard these days is a Yammie P35 I bought from GC for $250. I use it for mostly for its acoustic piano sound. Nice weighted action and it weighs half of what my old Korg SP250 weighed and cost a fourth as much. My top keyboard these days is a Casio WK7600 (yes, a $500 Casio!). IMHO, it has very convincing Hammond tones (I own a Hammond M100 and an H100, and have played various A's, B's and C's) complete with 9 sliders that act as drawbars and a Leslie sim that ramps up and down well enough, although the fast speed might be a little too fast. The strings, brass, and woodwinds are very realistic sounding. The other sounds will get you through gigs if you need them. The keyboard has a decent enough synth-type action. It's durable enough to handle my heavy Jerry Lee Lewis when put into piano service (back in the 80's, American Music here in Jax used to keep replacement keys in stock for our band's Yammie PF10 because I'd routinely break them; our BL was stuck on the sound of that board for some reason) and has held up to Hammond glissandi without any issues.
 
Keyboard players (especially pianists) are primarily trained to be soloists. Finding one that can instinctively stay within their allocated sonic space and not step all over the other band member’s respective turfs without some band experience under their belt is rare. Rare as in unicorn and golden fleece rare.

As far as your guy goes, you gave your honest opinion that he’s not ready nor a good fit for the band at this point in time. (An opinion I agree with btw.)

But you’ve done you part. I’d leave it at that for the time being.
 
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Tell that jackleg to stop stepping all over your sonic space with his crummy keyboard, and if he don't like it- he can git out!
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Forty replies and only two or three of you hint that there’d be some benefit to sitting down with the new guy to work out the things that sound good vs. the things that conflict. Maybe even a bass and keys woodshed session?

Depends on if he’s that good, and you’re so gung-ho on adding keys, that you want to take on an apprentice training project.

No one size answer fits every band or situation.
 
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I play in a mostly covers classic rock (with some soul / groove) group. Currently it's 2 guitars, bass (we all sing), and drums. We are all very experienced (thousands of shows played each) and pretty good at what we do individually, and as a band. We don't really have an official band leader, but I'm certainly the low man on the totem pole as I've found out when trying to negotiate our stage setup so I can stand next to the drummer and having been shot down categorically with no good reason given... The other 3 guys have known / played with each other for a long time and I've "only" known the guitarist for 7 years... That having been said it's a good group of guys, we communicate well for the most part, and we're friends.

So I go away for a few weeks, and I'm told there is a keyboard player coming on board, which we've talked about before. Great! I'm psyched. They jammed with him a couple of times while I was away. We schedule a rehearsal when I'm back. I meet the keyboard player, he's cool, nice guy. He has performance experience, but he's never played in a band before. He's a piano player, not a keyboard player. He's doing block chords with two octaves on the left hand the whole time. We all have pro gear and he's got a cheap yamaha keyboard which has no decent rhodes, wurly, or hammond sounds, he hasn't learned any of the actual keyboard parts for the covers.

So after the jam, one of the guys asks me what I think, and I more or less tell him--nice guy, has some talent, but is not a "keyboard player" and needs a lot of work before he would be gig ready with us. But at the same time I conceded that there are no experienced players with nord electros knocking on our door. He more or less agreed. I text one of the other guys (who was telling this "keyboard" player how good he sounded after the rehearsal) and let him know my issues, that I don't think he's a good fit. No response.

The goal for this band is to play a few local / regional gigs a month (for money), and to sound professional. I play in another band already so my "play music" fix is covered... So, what would you do in this situation?

Seriously... start looking for another situation. If you can't even get these guys to let you stand beside the drummer at gigs in a 4 piece band, and they decided to bring this guy onboard without consulting you, it is clear that your opinion is not valued. Try and project that to further on down the road, when this dude is plopping keyboard turd bass all over your lines, and you are gong to get blamed for playing to loud or ignoring balance. In my humble opinion, a keyboard player that doesn't know how to fit in an ensemble (block chords and octave bass) will never learn.

Since they decided in your absence to bring him on, be prepared to still be low man on the totem pole. Bottom line, if this guy is musically going to be a problem, you are going to get zero support in solving it. A band looking to gig, who is bringing on another mouth to feed without any consideration for proper musical contribution... well the chances for success are not great. It seems that for whatever reason, they think that your group just NEEDS a keyboard player.

Sorry, but as @Wasnex said earlier, greener pastures... actually, I should have just quoted his whole post - he nailed it.
 
guys in metal we use samples and recordings very & limited keys.. it's much cheaper to get a 25 key midi controller and program the sample in a laptop.. that limited range would actually help him adapt to.. worse case scenario use a backing track that the drummer triggering the samples.
 
Since my crippled left arm won't allow me to play guitar any more on gigs where I'm not the bassist, I've become a de facto piano player. Not keyboard...I bought a great 88 weighted key digital piano, and I'm mostly doing rhythm and fills. Simple stuff, and mostly above middle C. Every sound man I've worked with has complimented me on staying out of everyone's way.
 
Since my crippled left arm won't allow me to play guitar any more on gigs where I'm not the bassist, I've become a de facto piano player. Not keyboard...I bought a great 88 weighted key digital piano, and I'm mostly doing rhythm and fills. Simple stuff, and mostly above middle C. Every sound man I've worked with has complimented me on staying out of everyone's way.

I used to play jazz with a guy who had been a competition accordion player as a kid. He had amazing right hand technique on piano and keyboard, but never really developed a lot of left hand facility as the style of accordion he played used buttons for the bass. I never had any trouble with him stepping on my bass lines.
 
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Depends on if he’s that good, and you’re so gung-ho on adding keys, that you want to take on an apprentice training project.

No one size answer fits every band or situation.
I don’t know about the guy’s skills but if he’s got some skills he should be able to adapt quickly to changes in his arrangements so the band sounds good. In the OP’s case it was the rest of the band that brought the guy. It’d be worth a good faith effort on the OP’s part (i.e. a few sessions, not a teaching career) to try to help him fit in. If he’s not a good fit then you made the effort and you’ve got a basis for reporting that it won’t work. Then be ready to be replaced (or stepped on) by a left hand if they want to keep him anyway.

I am often taken aback at how many people here are uninterested in even trying to bring a new guy up to speed.
 
Forty replies and only two or three of you hint that there’d be some benefit to sitting down with the new guy to work out the things that sound good vs. the things that conflict. Maybe even a bass and keys woodshed session?

I think that is a reasonable thought, but the 40:2or3 ratio may also reflect the number of folks who have tried that solution (some more than a few times), and have experienced futility. Count me in the 40, no matter how nice a person is, style and groove are very hard to concepts to teach. You kind of either have enough of them to fit, or you don't, especially if - as the OP says - the group has professional ambitions.
 
John Cascella, who played keys with John Mellencamp until he suffered a fatal heart attack in his early 40's, was a national champion accordion player as a teenager (he studied with Ed Miller, a good friend of mine). This background made him the perfect band keyboard player, and he even spearheaded the return of the accordion on Mellencamp's records. Plus, John Cascella was a really nice guy!
 
I think that is a reasonable thought, but the 40:2or3 ratio may also reflect the number of folks who have tried that solution (some more than a few times), and have experienced futility. Count me in the 40, no matter how nice a person is, style and groove are very hard to concepts to teach. You kind of either have enough of them to fit, or you don't, especially if - as the OP says - the group has professional ambitions.

This was my thought, too. Been there done that. Not banging my head against that brick wall again. Life's too short. I'm all for being nice, communicative, and patient, but there are certain times when you need to bring your life lessons into play.
 
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I don’t know about the guy’s skills but if he’s got some skills he should be able to adapt quickly to changes in his arrangements so the band sounds good. In the OP’s case it was the rest of the band that brought the guy. It’d be worth a good faith effort on the OP’s part (i.e. a few sessions, not a teaching career) to try to help him fit in. If he’s not a good fit then you made the effort and you’ve got a basis for reporting that it won’t work. Then be ready to be replaced (or stepped on) by a left hand if they want to keep him anyway.

I am often taken aback at how many people here are uninterested in even trying to bring a new guy up to speed.

The guy may be a super talented and skilled piano or keyboard player, and still not posses the required skills to play in this setting. I don't think it would take long to figure it out, so sure take a bit of time to see if there is any potential. But if the ability to translate chords into voicings appropriate for the repertoire are lacking, it's not an easy fix, and I don't understand why you think anyone in the band would be qualified to teach this guy how to play keys. It may be worth the effort to encourage and help the guy learn, but he has to demonstrate the ability to recognize there is a problem and show a willingness to take responsibility for fixing it.
 
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When it comes down to it, IMHO this should be viewed as an employment decision. The keyboard job requirements determine the knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSA) the player must possess to perform satisfactorily. I would consider the keyboardist a conditional hire. If he isn't able to demonstrate the necessary KSAs, I would let him go and try to hire a qualified player.

This is not personal, it's business. I am not saying it's how you should run a band, but it is what I would do.

Course the OP is not the group leader...maybe he should start his own band ;).
 

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