Keyboard Player Is a Piano Player

[MotorCityMinion]

If the man is any good at what he does, he should find that sonic space soon enough or perhaps get fed up with others not bending to his will. I find that piano playing in a band scenario can often broaden the variety of music being played. Also note that the lack of effects and gimmicks that can come with keys, bares all. With nowhere to hide, the skills can shine.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

So if I understand this correctly:

-He's a good musician but he doesn't play in a style suitable for your band.

-His gear is not only substandard but doesn't have the sounds you need.

-You've managed without a keyboard player for years.

Unless you are prepared to spend months or even years coaching him and waiting for him to buy the necessary gear I don't see how this is even up for debate.

 

[Nev375]

So you and the rest of the band talked, but the keyboard player is required to be telepathic?

 

[rtslinger]

I play in a mostly covers classic rock (with some soul / groove) group. Currently it's 2 guitars, bass (we all sing), and drums. We are all very experienced (thousands of shows played each) and pretty good at what we do individually, and as a band. We don't really have an official band leader, but I'm certainly the low man on the totem pole as I've found out when trying to negotiate our stage setup so I can stand next to the drummer and having been shot down categorically with no good reason given... The other 3 guys have known / played with each other for a long time and I've "only" known the guitarist for 7 years... That having been said it's a good group of guys, we communicate well for the most part, and we're friends.

So I go away for a few weeks, and I'm told there is a keyboard player coming on board, which we've talked about before. Great! I'm psyched. They jammed with him a couple of times while I was away. We schedule a rehearsal when I'm back. I meet the keyboard player, he's cool, nice guy. He has performance experience, but he's never played in a band before. He's a piano player, not a keyboard player. He's doing block chords with two octaves on the left hand the whole time. We all have pro gear and he's got a cheap yamaha keyboard which has no decent rhodes, wurly, or hammond sounds, he hasn't learned any of the actual keyboard parts for the covers.

So after the jam, one of the guys asks me what I think, and I more or less tell him--nice guy, has some talent, but is not a "keyboard player" and needs a lot of work before he would be gig ready with us. But at the same time I conceded that there are no experienced players with nord electros knocking on our door. He more or less agreed. I text one of the other guys (who was telling this "keyboard" player how good he sounded after the rehearsal) and let him know my issues, that I don't think he's a good fit. No response.

The goal for this band is to play a few local / regional gigs a month (for money), and to sound professional. I play in another band already so my "play music" fix is covered... So, what would you do in this situation?

Okay when I brought in my keyboard player his only experience was piano as well, he only bought a keyboard because I ask him to. I immediately steer him to leave out the left hand and I explain to him why. He had never worked with a band so he was easy to shape and willing to learn. You need to do the same if you are going to get any where with this guy. He has to learn the keyboard parts of the songs you're doing not the piano bar sing along he is use to doing.
If he wants to do this and fit the band he has to be a team player and adjust to a band situation. So I agree with your feelings and he needs to lay off the left hand stuff not to crowd your sonic space. good luck RTS

 

[Wesley R]

What you write suggests the members of the band don't place much value on your opinion or needs. A bass player requesting to stand next to the drummer is a pretty normal and defendable if you are focused on locking in the groove. You indicate the idea was pretty much summarily dismissed without consideration.

Your concerns about the keyboards stepping on the bass lines, may not bother anyone else. But most bass players find it very frustrating when keyboardist bang away randomly with their left hand. Playing parallel lines bass is totally appropriate with some tunes of course, but that not what I am talking about. In my experience, the easiest and most direct solution is for the keyboardist to stop using his left hand if he is not skilled or disciplined enough to avoid clashing with the bass. Course if you are the only one who complains, the keyboardist may not be motivated to change, so you may experience ongoing frustration or conflict.

If you don't feel you are respected and valued, why stay? Consider looking for greener pastures.

I lost a gig (beautiful gig great money, little equipment to move, close to home) due to a keys players left hand.

We were doing a supper club gig with way, way low volume until 9:00pm when we could crank it up to low volume. During big bad LeRoy Brown the keys guy opens up his volume and does a loud walking bass pattern. The BL just glares at me, and I had already stopped playing. Got chewed out at break time. I tried explaining and the guitarist stuck up for me, yet I ended up sacked.

 

[mellowinman]

Get rid of him. Obvious answer. If band disagrees, get rid of them.

 

[lfmn16]

I'll even do extra sessions to help bring things together.

Why? It sounds like the band is at the level that you should be able to find someone that can already play. The guy has no band experience, junk for equipment and didn't bother to learn the songs. Why would you take your time to work with someone like that? He needs to learn to play in a band and that's on him.

You get what you’re willing to accept.

Exactly! I've never been treated disrespectfully because I refuse to accept it. I had great mentors and I've never felt that bass was an inferior instrument and never gave off the vibe that maybe I could be treated like a second class citizen. The thought that the band could tell me where to stand is just inconceivable. I stand next to the drummer, period.

 

[lfmn16]

Get rid of him. Obvious answer. If band disagrees, get rid of them.

Or if they disagree, I know a guy that knows a guy. I'm just saying.

 

[shwashwa]

Just ask him to lay off the low octave notes because it's in your range and it's getting muddy. I've done that many times. No problem. Once I've actually walk over and held the keyboard players left pinky off the keys

 

[mellowinman]

Just ask him to lay off the low octave notes because it's in your range and it's getting muddy. I've done that many times. No problem. Once I've actually walk over and held the keyboard players left pinky off the keys

How does that solve the problem that the KB player doesn't have pro gear? He adds crappy sound. Nobody gets to add crappy sound to my band.

 

[mellowinman]

Or if they disagree, I know a guy that knows a guy. I'm just saying.

Best answer yet.

 

[CoffeeLove]

He needs to learn the specific parts to each song quickly, and plays them, or he goes. Keys and piano are worlds apart as far as application in a band, and it will kill your sound if he does not figure it out. Good luck

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I play in a mostly covers classic rock (with some soul / groove) group. Currently it's 2 guitars, bass (we all sing), and drums. We are all very experienced (thousands of shows played each) and pretty good at what we do individually, and as a band. We don't really have an official band leader, but I'm certainly the low man on the totem pole as I've found out when trying to negotiate our stage setup so I can stand next to the drummer and having been shot down categorically with no good reason given... The other 3 guys have known / played with each other for a long time and I've "only" known the guitarist for 7 years... That having been said it's a good group of guys, we communicate well for the most part, and we're friends.

So I go away for a few weeks, and I'm told there is a keyboard player coming on board, which we've talked about before. Great! I'm psyched. They jammed with him a couple of times while I was away. We schedule a rehearsal when I'm back. I meet the keyboard player, he's cool, nice guy. He has performance experience, but he's never played in a band before. He's a piano player, not a keyboard player. He's doing block chords with two octaves on the left hand the whole time. We all have pro gear and he's got a cheap yamaha keyboard which has no decent rhodes, wurly, or hammond sounds, he hasn't learned any of the actual keyboard parts for the covers.

So after the jam, one of the guys asks me what I think, and I more or less tell him--nice guy, has some talent, but is not a "keyboard player" and needs a lot of work before he would be gig ready with us. But at the same time I conceded that there are no experienced players with nord electros knocking on our door. He more or less agreed. I text one of the other guys (who was telling this "keyboard" player how good he sounded after the rehearsal) and let him know my issues, that I don't think he's a good fit. No response.

The goal for this band is to play a few local / regional gigs a month (for money), and to sound professional. I play in another band already so my "play music" fix is covered... So, what would you do in this situation?

I had this exact situation. I had a heart to heart and explained to him that his left hand was becoming a problem. He really did try to work on it, but when he would get into it, he would go back to old habits. When he did that, I just stopped playing. I just stood there are stared at him.
I do agree that a piano player is not necessarily a keys player. They will tend to do everything on piano.
So, the only thing you can do is discuss it and explain he doesn't have to do it all. Either he will take it to heart and work with you or he won't.

 

[ColonelZulu]

Thanks! Also it's just nice to vent.

Can’t imagine you don’t have a decent shot at getting a good legit keyboard player up near Boston. How actively have you guys searched? How many auditions?

 

[esoxhntr]

It sounds like the band is at the level that you should be able to find someone that can already play.

Exactly... If the group is going to spend any extra time, it should be on finding the right guy in the first place. Short term pain for long term gain. The other issue here is that they have made a decision. You weren't part of it. Getting them to change their decision based on your input will be difficult at best.

There is a little voice in the back of my head that wonders - since they did this when you were away - if they thought that they might be able to replace you with keyboard and left hand bass. Kill two birds with one stone, so to speak... Maybe I'm going a little too far here, but when stuff gets done without your input, and while you're not around, well... that's not how a professionally oriented, effectively communicating band works.

 

[ColonelZulu]

I lost a gig (beautiful gig great money, little equipment to move, close to home) due to a keys players left hand.

We were doing a supper club gig with way, way low volume until 9:00pm when we could crank it up to low volume. During big bad LeRoy Brown the keys guy opens up his volume and does a loud walking bass pattern. The BL just glares at me, and I had already stopped playing. Got chewed out at break time. I tried explaining and the guitarist stuck up for me, yet I ended up sacked.

So the BL can’t tell the difference between your bass sound and the keyboard? He looked at you, and saw that you weren’t playing, yet he blamed you for the KB’s volume, and even with the guitar player vouching for you, he launched you?

Band leader is an idiot.
Keyboard player has no honor.
Guitar player, who stayed with that band after witnessing this, has no self esteem.

...Or something else was going on.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Can’t imagine you don’t have a decent shot at getting a good legit keyboard player up near Boston. How actively have you guys searched? How many auditions?

No matter where you are, finding a keyboardist with all this:

1. Talent
2. Equipment
3. Knowledge of playing in a band, and
4. Availability

Is the hardest thing to do.

 

[ColonelZulu]

No matter where you are, finding a keyboardist with all this:

1. Talent
2. Equipment
3. Knowledge of playing in a band, and
4. Availability

Is the hardest thing to do.

It’s pretty hard. That’s true

I’d take someone with any three of those four and be better off than with the guy he’s talking about with just #1 and #4 (assuming).

 

[Savage_Dreams]

He's a piano player, not a keyboard player. He's doing block chords with two octaves on the left hand the whole time.

while i agree he doesnt sound like he's cutting it for what you want, to me you have a fairly odd concept of what a piano player is and how you differentiate between a keyboardist and pianist.

 

[And I]

How come nobody’s asked why he’s not allowed to stand by the drummer? Sounds like OP is more of an employee than a band member. I only say this because I know what it’s like. It sucks. And the best day I had this year was telling them where they could stick it. Thanks for listening. TB is cheaper than a therapist. ✌

We want to all have line of sight, the drummer sets up stage right turned 90 degrees towards center stage. the 3 string players stand in a line. i like that setup but want to stand next to the drummer as i'm a lot more comfortable there. i've been told the issue is not negotiable. i've always been asked to stand far stage left. It's odd cuz they certainly value my opinion in other areas, just not this one...

as far as the keyboard player being brought in while i was away, i have no issues with that. we had someone before who didn't work out. we've talked about bringing someone in. i was happy they did. but unhappy at this person's lack of keyboardiness, and lack of good a sounding keyboard (it's one of those with built-in speakers, 5 usable sounds and 123 poopy sounds).

i do play in another band. i don't want to put an ultimatum on them about it, but i will let it be known that i ain't got time to teach someone how to play their instrument...