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Keyboard players with heavy left hands

#42
Bands have sections that play in unison from time to time, and your band can also use that to your advantage. Bassists don't own the low end anymore than they should never venture above the 5th fret. BUT... whatever is being played needs to sound good. And, especially in the low end, it almost always needs to be very tightly in unison to keep it from turning to mud. Talk, rehearse, listen, adjust.

Here's some IMO great advice given by @Wood and Wire in a previous thread about the same question:

1) Actively engage with Fred, and the rest of the band, to listen to the effect of both instruments playing in the same range, and decide if it's a help or a hindrance (we already know the answer, but they need to have that epiphany themselves).

2) Figure out when both playing in unison adds power, and excitement (it can work really well, but both players have to nail identical parts - the keys need to be using either a punchy staccato synth sound [think typical Moog type sound, with adjustable resonant filter, with a short attack & release envelope] or something with rich harmonics [such as a bright piano] that takes overdrive / distortion well).

3) Figure out passages when one of you can hold down the low end, and the other can venture higher up (punchy synth bass sounds great with a bass guitar playing high melodies [Joy Division / New Order made a career of this], or conventional bass parts combined with a synth pad filling out the mid-range can give the guitars ample opportunity to stretch their legs, before the synth lets rip another octave up, with a lead sound).


Record your rehearsals, and highlight the moments that work, and those that don't (keep pointing back to this evidence, if things start to slip).
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#43
DonaldR said:
Can you HPF the keyboard player at 200Hz or higher?
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No, it's about parts clashing. If the piano is banging out root notes and the bass is trying to move (or vice versa, or if both parts are moving in uncoordinated ways, etc) you get musical mush.
Sam Evans said:
Situational. It's not really about the range; it's about the arrangement, and how things are mixed.
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Yes, and in improvised comping, it's really about listening, and understanding that an instrument that can cover the entire orchestral range doesn't need to cover that full range.

Most skilled pianists understand this and appreciate the freedom to do two handed voicings in higher registers when they've got a bass holding down the bottom.

This is similar to a drummer or who can only play loud or a guitarist who plays a constant wall of power chords with no spaces in between. A basic lack of ensemble musicianship IMO.
 
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#49
Use this to secure his left hand to the leg of his chair:
1721430846418.png

If that doesn't work, use this:

1721430786772.png
 

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#50
TheReceder said:
Amputation.
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Just kidding. Ran into the same situation at a church service... director told me to turn down... I did... told me I was still too loud... turned down more... he was getting irritated... told me I still was overpowering... So I turned all the way down... again... turned my amp off... again.... unplugged my bass. I then noticed the Keyboardist bashing away with the left hand.... showed the diirector I was unplugged and asked him if he wanted me to play in the parking lot.

Good luck... it's tough to get keyboardists that live in the bass lane to merge right.
 
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#52
Oscar Peterson seemed to do alright with both Ray Brown and Nils Pedersen, and none of them were shy about using the entire range of their respective instruments.

Musicianship always includes understanding and anticipating what everyone else on stage is playing, and collaborating to make everyone on stage sound good in the audience.
 
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#53
Pep said:
I'm sure we've all had to deal with this at one time or another. Two of the bands I work with have keyboard players who love to "live in my operating area".
I joined one of these bands about 7 months ago, came out to hear them before joining and listened to their mix and the bass player.
Let me clarify in this particular instance we are a house band every Thursday. There are PA speakers aiming towards the crowd but they're for vocals and sax. Everything else comes from the stage.
You could barely hear the bass.
They asked me to sit-in for a couple of numbers, which I did and at that point I understood the situation. The bass was really low on stage and even I had difficulty hearing it standing in front of the bass cab.
I brought it up a bit and it brought some life to the band and everyone seemed more excited. Things were punching for a bit until the keyboard player dropped he left hand down an octave and started clashing with my notes.
I joined the group and this has been a bit of an ongoing problem. My remedy has been to just drop out and quit playing when he does it. Then some of the members look my way and I just nod towards the keyboard player so they know the problem. Every time this happens he gets the hint and moves his left hand back up but it's starting to
I stand next to him and last night he asked me to turn down because he wasn't able to hear what he was playing so I did. Just to be hones, he was blasting away and I could hear nothing but him. Since we were apparently too loud for each other I suggested next week we stand in front of each others cabs. He looked bewildered.
Next week it's going to be my bass cab on a stand so I can hear my self even if I'm not loud enough out front. If that doesn't work it may be the end of the road for me and that band.

I have a similar problem with the other band and I deal with it in much the same way.

In both of these instances neither keyboard player plays the exact same notes that I'm playing. It's usually an embellishment of the bass line that's supposed to be there and sometimes a full chord on the left hand which effectively kills what I'm doing. Ad the sustain pedal to that and you have a complete mess.

I'm open to suggestions on how to effectively deal with this situation. Please help!!!
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I've had this happen to me many times and basically for me it's a no tolerance policy. I straight tell them, "hey man, your left hand is totally clashing with my bass notes. Would you mind keeping out of that range?" or I'll say "do you mind cutting the low end on your rig/tone? You're overpoweing my tone." They always comply.
 
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#54
People gonna play how they play until given (asked, told to play) specific parts. The clash points to insufficient (unmusical) arrangement, which can be worked out if people want a better band.

The shorthand (don't play notes below a certain pitch) can come across as an arbitrary rule—a great way to cultivate resistance, which itself is a great way to not learn new things.
 
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#55
Thanks for all of the replies. I didn’t know this would blow up like it did.
I’m the newest member of the band so I’m trying to be careful how I address this.
If he would play his left hand one octave higher there would never be an issue.
There is no consistency to his playing in my register on any tune. Sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn’t. Then when he incorporates the sustain pedal, my bass runs virtually disappear in the mud.
I guess my best bet is to let him know that I’m going to lay out when he’s playing in my register so it doesn’t get muddy and make us both sound bad.
It that happens enough the drummer and guitar player will get involved and perhaps they’ll get it straightened out. If not and it continues, I’ll be leaving.
 
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#59
I've been in situations where between the keyboard or acoustic(ish) guitar (during a part I wasn't playing) I thought my bass was ringing, or there was another bass player back stage. We had in ears so I could hear myself fine, not sure what it sounded like out front tho.

Sounds like the only options are 1-they stay in their lane, or 2-they get high passed/EQed out of our lane.

I can only go so low
 

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