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Kick drum through my bass amp?

Every FOH system where you can feel the bass sure does.

This is a thread about using a bass amp instead of a PA sub at the suggestion of the "sound guy".
Not really. It's about a sound guy recommending running the kick through the bass amp and not through the FOH. People are responding in very broad terms. Whether or not there's a sub in an FOH system carries little meaning on its own; plenty of full-range PA speakers can handle the complete range of sound as well as other systems that include a sub.

Most of the signal from a kick drum might not even end up coming out of the sub, depending on how the system is configured. Obviously, the kick drum at a Metallica show will sound different than most do on hip-hop records.

I understand where the bass player would feel territorial about his amp and not want the kick drum or anything else but bass run through it. That's how I would feel, in fact. But - 4 out of 5 posts on this thread imply or claim that doing this would harm your amp or your speakers.

On the face, there's nothing at all about a kick drum signal that would be more taxing to a bass amp than a bass guitar signal. Both are probably less taxing than a keyboardist with a heavy left hand, both in terms of transient and sustained signal levels and demand those make on amps and speakers.

The fact is, as long as the sound guy isn't sending you a totally irresponsible kick drum signal - which I concede would be out of your control - there's nothing inherently "bad" about this idea, other than that the bass player probably won't like it.
 
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Not really. It's about a sound guy recommending running the kick through the bass amp and not through the FOH. People are responding in very broad terms. Whether or not there's a sub in an FOH system carries little meaning on its own; plenty of full-range PA speakers can handle the complete range of sound as well as other systems that include a sub.

Most of the signal from a kick drum might not even end up coming out of the sub, depending on how the system is configured. Obviously, the kick drum at a Metallilca show will sound different than most do on hip-hop records.

I understand where the bass player would feel territorial about his amp and not want the kick drum or anything else but bass run through it. That's how I would feel, in fact. But - 4 out of 5 posts on this thread imply or claim that doing this would harm your amp or your speakers.

On the face, there's nothing at all about a kick drum signal that would be more taxing to a bass amp than a bass guitar signal. Both are probably less taxing than a keyboardist with a heavy left hand, both in terms of transient and sustained signal levels and demand those make on amps and speakers.

The fact is, as long as the sound guy isn't sending you a totally irresponsible kick drum signal - which I concede would be out of your control - there's nothing inherently "bad" about this idea, other than that the bass player probably won't like it.

Nope, the sound guy is specifically suggesting a bass amp instead of a sub.

From the OP "the sound guy is thinking of putting the bass drum through my bass rig...he's thinking of this to save the expense buying a powered sub and the trouble of loading a heavy sub in and out."

If the goal is to hear the kick better, putting it through the PA mains will work better than putting it through the bass amp.

If the goal is to feel the bass, using a powered sub will work better than putting it through the bass amp.
 
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What the OP leaves out is the relationship with the Sound guy... Is it his gear ? Is he mixing on the bands gear? Who’s expense ? Does he even get paid or is he helping out and doing what he can with limited resources ? I can agree that it sure looks like someone wants to see what can be accomplished with minimal outlay, gear and effort. What I didn’t get, maybe missed above is what the external pressures are... Personally, I’m kinda go for broke when it comes to PA but as I’m a sound guy, you would expect that... for your amusement a pic from my last sound gig. SuperSuckers in a tent. Damn these guys were loud... and no we did not route the kick into the SVT or either of the Marshall JCM 800 100 watt rigs... plenty of it in the wedges though. Not my lights...I wish...
 
Back in the early 70's I actually had a guitarist plug into the second input of my Standel bass amp (215 cab) to join in for a song once. Anytime I played anything on the E string it would totally cut him off and the A string notes would often make his sound warble. That's what I would expect if someone stuck a mic in my amp with a kick drum hitting my speakers like that. Just not going to happen.

In my opinion, It's just stupid to let a soundman do something like that. I learned 40-years ago to be very protective of my gear because nobody else is nearly as careful with it as I am. Like the old saying, "the best race car is a rental!" It took dings on my '65 Jazz Bass, burns in the Tolex of my amp and shredded amp covers before I learned my lesson. Get your own darn sub to put that into. They're not that much anymore and keep your filthy hands off my $1000 cab that it took me 5-years to save up for! If you have a different opinion, fine - put your gear at risk. But you're not touching mine.

Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't let you do that anyhow as my amp only has one input. And NO, you can't look at the back of my amp to see if there's an auxiliary-in.
 
I vaguely remember a thread, where the house refused to allow bass or drums through the house system, and stated the limitation in the contract. Could this be the case? And the sound man was being diplomatic? It might worth looking through the contract provided by the house. Just thinking out loud.
 
Nope, the sound guy is specifically suggesting a bass amp instead of a sub.

From the OP "the sound guy is thinking of putting the bass drum through my bass rig...he's thinking of this to save the expense buying a powered sub and the trouble of loading a heavy sub in and out."

If the goal is to hear the kick better, putting it through the PA mains will work better than putting it through the bass amp.

If the goal is to feel the bass, using a powered sub will work better than putting it through the bass amp.
I’ve owned full range speakers that had much flatter bass output than the cheap Polk sub I have in my living room now, so I’m maintaining that you aren’t universally correct. We’re in dogmatic territory now though and probably won’t agree, so no point in splashing the thread further.
 
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I’ve owned full range speakers that had much flatter bass output than the cheap Polk sub I have in my living room now, so I’m maintaining that you aren’t universally correct. We’re in dogmatic territory now though and probably won’t agree, so no point in splashing the thread further.

Nothing that you just posted disagrees with the post you're responding to: no one has suggested that the OP buy a cheap living room sub for live use.

If he wants to hear the kick, he should run it through the mains: if he wants to feel the kick, he should get a quality powered sub.
 
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I’ve owned full range speakers that had much flatter bass output than the cheap Polk sub I have in my living room now, so I’m maintaining that you aren’t universally correct. We’re in dogmatic territory now though and probably won’t agree, so no point in splashing the thread further.

point taken.To add to the conversation: i would only use subs (always use 2) if the rest of the PA is on par, powerwise.I consider it a mistake to beef up a small PA with a powered sub.sub as in below 80hz.
I would rather use full range speakers to amplify drums and use an aux to drive them, even if it's just the kick and/or bass.I've seen too many issues w 'soundguys' not using the subs properly, with big freq gaps as a result.
Im in favour of making the vocals stand out, not having to fight for space.Depends on the PA of course.A proper setup w subs is great but a sub is not a solution for an inadequate PA imo..

Edit:as some bass cabs use drivers that can be used both for PA and Bass one could see a situation whereby an extra (bass) cab could be used for a kick drum.This opposed to a sub because a sub only does,well,the obvious.
But putting both bass(if it only uses one cab) and kick through the same cab is far from ideal..
 
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We play bar gigs mostly indoors but some outdoors shows on the deck.

We have the typical powered mixer with 2 mains and 2 powered monitors, no subs. Small set up, only the vocals go through the board. For our outdoor shows we want to mic the drums. I like this idea but the sound guy is thinking of putting the bass drum through my bass rig. Yes, my bass plus bass drum through my rig. He's thinking of this to save the expense buying a powered sub and the trouble of loading a heavy sub in and out.

I like the sound guy, he does make the vocals sound good but I'm not sure I'm liking this idea. Not sure I want anything but my bass going through my amp.

Have you guys ever heard of this, any thoughts?

Uh, that’s a no, unless you have a stereo rig, with half dedicated to the bass drum, the other half dedicated to your bass.

Really, it sounds like you need a sub, and with you sending a flat signal to the board, and using your rig to provide you enough to creat some stage presence and no more. Another sound tech may be in order here as well.
 
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I was thinking that a powered mixer would primarily be placed onstage for proximity to mic hookups and FOH speakers. Maybe I'm not considering everything.

Yeah. It could go onstage but so could a rack setup.

I've done lots of small gigs with an experienced sound man who understood that there is such a thing as overkill. I've also done small rooms where the sound guy brought a pair of double eighteens.
:D

No different than bringing a 410 stack to a 50 seater I guess.
 
Back in the early 70's I actually had a guitarist plug into the second input of my Standel bass amp (215 cab) to join in for a song once. Anytime I played anything on the E string it would totally cut him off and the A string notes would often make his sound warble. That's what I would expect if someone stuck a mic in my amp with a kick drum hitting my speakers like that. Just not going to happen.

In my opinion, It's just stupid to let a soundman do something like that. I learned 40-years ago to be very protective of my gear because nobody else is nearly as careful with it as I am. Like the old saying, "the best race car is a rental!" It took dings on my '65 Jazz Bass, burns in the Tolex of my amp and shredded amp covers before I learned my lesson. Get your own darn sub to put that into. They're not that much anymore and keep your filthy hands off my $1000 cab that it took me 5-years to save up for! If you have a different opinion, fine - put your gear at risk. But you're not touching mine.

Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't let you do that anyhow as my amp only has one input. And NO, you can't look at the back of my amp to see if there's an auxiliary-in.

Understood... but gear has evolved greatly since that Standel rig (I've gigged through that same setup ;)).
 
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Anyone done a gig where the kick is the only drum amplified?
Many. At that point where miking the whole kit is too excessive but the bass drum needs that extra carry. Smallish venues usually. Strangely enough the less is more approach can work very well providing the sound man stands his ground with the guitarists......