Kiesel Vader Bass-Are they worth it?

[Pyrat]

Thanks for these honest reports. So many of these are not objective and I really appreciate the likes/dislikes herein...I'm totally sold on this idea and am working toward the reality...I played a Steinberger 5 from WAY back for many years. Getting back to headless has been too long coming...can't wait to weigh in with my own open and honest review!

 

[Herrick]

Thanks for these honest reports. So many of these are not objective and I really appreciate the likes/dislikes herein...I'm totally sold on this idea and am working toward the reality...I played a Steinberger 5 from WAY back for many years. Getting back to headless has been too long coming...can't wait to weigh in with my own open and honest review!

I ordered one earlier this week. I'm guessing it'll be ready around mid June. If I can remember, I'll post my impressions of it in this thread.

 

[DrDAV14]

Objectivity is in the ear/hands of the player.
I have 2 Kiesel Vaders, both short scale. One with single coil passive, one with Humbucker, active.
I've been a headless player since 1986, and appreciate all the pluses of the headless design.
I also have a "frankensteined" Gibson SG. I began to go back to shorter scale bass about 10 yrs ago. Mostly played 32" scale Status basses. When Kiesel came out with the Vader in short scale, I ordered.....and was quite impressed with the bass in all categories. Even compared to my "Stanley Clarke" Alembic (now sold). Great bass

 

[Pyrat]

I ordered one earlier this week. I'm guessing it'll be ready around mid June. If I can remember, I'll post my impressions of it in this thread.

I'd really appreciate that! I'm gonna jump in the pool myself...the Vader is way too "me" not to...I purchased a Steinberger from the factory is 1983. It arrived the 5-string model(not what I ordered!) and they said I could keep it if I wanted it, not extra charge. I played that thing 'til I wore out the frets and loved it...but never really bonded with the tonality...hopefully the Kiesel is more to my liking. What I have seen and heard thus far seems to be more what I always wanted from the Steinberger, with the added bonus of being beautiful to look at as well...I look forward to your review!

 

[Herrick]

I'd really appreciate that! I'm gonna jump in the pool myself...the Vader is way too "me" not to...I purchased a Steinberger from the factory is 1983. It arrived the 5-string model(not what I ordered!) and they said I could keep it if I wanted it, not extra charge. I played that thing 'til I wore out the frets and loved it...but never really bonded with the tonality...hopefully the Kiesel is more to my liking. What I have seen and heard thus far seems to be more what I always wanted from the Steinberger, with the added bonus of being beautiful to look at as well...I look forward to your review!

It'll be my first headless bass. I'm pretty excited about it. I almost got the PJ setup but I liked the look of the radium humbuckers.

 

[Pyrat]

It'll be my first headless bass. I'm pretty excited about it. I almost got the PJ setup but I liked the look of the radium humbuckers.

Good call...I think you'll be really glad ya did! Besides, there's truck-loads of P-ish basses out there if ya wanna go back. I prefer to think that we're moving-FORWARD.

 

[Herrick]

Good call...I think you'll be really glad ya did! Besides, there's truck-loads of P-ish basses out there if ya wanna go back. I prefer to think that we're moving-FORWARD.

Yeah I'm still gonna keep my Ibanez SR655 in case I don't like the Vader. The Ibanez is an active PJ setup. One of the things that really attracted me to the Vader was that it comes with passive electronics as standard. Most of the headless basses I've seen are always active and I'm really a passive mang at heart.

 

[Pyrat]

Yeah I'm still gonna keep my Ibanez SR655 in case I don't like the Vader. The Ibanez is an active PJ setup. One of the things that really attracted me to the Vader was that it comes with passive electronics as standard. Most of the headless basses I've seen are always active and I'm really a passive mang at heart.

I'm curious to hear how the neck profiles differ! I've owned and played everything. I never took to the active electronics because I gigged a ton and most sound-folks don't wanna play...and I get that. I was always able to suss the rooms and get a great sound...fast(also a plus w/ the FOH people!). I have owned several active basses, but the batteries always go when ya don't expect it and where I lived(Minneapolis!) that cold EATS everything. We're headed back there and I want something I'll bond with and use. Thankfully Kiesel is so accommodating, I'm sure I'll find a neck profile that'll happen with and I'll take the time to make it mine. Thanks SO much for the insight and hope to hear more from the "after" glow...

 

[Christcr]

Did they not have the single coil option back when you ordered yours?

I'm glad to hear it's not an overly bright-sounding bass. I ordered one last week with the radium humbuckers. Kinda wish I called them and asked if they could just put one split-coil pickup in there.

They did, but the bass was already assembled and sold to me from their "in stock" basses. If I'd ordered it made from scratch, I'd probably have gotten the singles. In fact the guy I talked to when I bought it said they could swap them if I wanted. But, I was excited and in a hurry to get it, so I just went with the humbuckers. When I get the five string, I'll get singles. I must say, though, I've become very attached to the bridge humbucker soloed. I could almost just leave it soloed all the time. I probably would if it had active electronics (so I could slightly boost the bass). As it is, I can get a great deal of tonal variation by varying the point I pluck the strings and I'm not big on active basses anyway, so I'll leave that idea alone. One reason I was attracted to the Vader initially, besides the short scale option, is the fact that it's passive.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I have been eyeing one of these for a while and have come down to my favorite specs... but first things first, are they worth the money? What are they like (playing wise) and how's the playability?

I have played one a the factory store in Escondido.
It played nice, sounded good - and the balance was *really* nice. Just not my thing, if you follow.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Define "worth it." One man's floor is another man's ceiling.

Lots of people like their products.

Also, if you think you might flip it, then probably not your best option financially, as Carvin gear seems to drop in price from retail more than other brands, in the secondary market (so I've heard).

They have increased their prices considerably - a new Kiesel is quite a bit more than a new Carvin from even 2 years ago.
That said - used, they are a DEAL. Of course, that means resale of your new Carvin/Kiesel will be painful, but that's just the way it goes.

 

[Herrick]

They did, but the bass was already assembled and sold to me from their "in stock" basses. If I'd ordered it made from scratch, I'd probably have gotten the singles. In fact the guy I talked to when I bought it said they could swap them if I wanted. But, I was excited and in a hurry to get it, so I just went with the humbuckers. When I get the five string, I'll get singles. I must say, though, I've become very attached to the bridge humbucker soloed. I could almost just leave it soloed all the time. I probably would if it had active electronics (so I could slightly boost the bass). As it is, I can get a great deal of tonal variation by varying the point I pluck the strings and I'm not big on active basses anyway, so I'll leave that idea alone. One reason I was attracted to the Vader initially, besides the short scale option, is the fact that it's passive.

They have a signature model of that bass that comes with a Musicmang Humbucker. I was thinking of maybe getting that one but I wanted an all passive Vader.

 

[Burwabit]

I want one to replace my Steinberger Spirit 5. I hate the neck on the Steinberger. Hoping the Vader feels more normal, and I love the 19mm spacing on their 5. This will be my next bass purchase and the last thing on my gas list (scouts honor).

 

[Herrick]

They have increased their prices considerably - a new Kiesel is quite a bit more than a new Carvin from even 2 years ago.

I guess it depends on the model. I paid $962 in 2013 for a PB5 with standard options and $938 in 2012 for a DC727 with standard options. They're listed at $969 & $999 now.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I guess it depends on the model. I paid $962 in 2013 for a PB5 with standard options and $938 in 2012 for a DC727 with standard options. They're listed at $969 & $999 now.

For the base model - the options have gone WAY up.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I want one to replace my Steinberger Spirit 5. I hate the neck on the Steinberger. Hoping the Vader feels more normal, and I love the 19mm spacing on their 5. This will be my next bass purchase and the last thing on my gas list (scouts honor).

There is zero comparison between a Spirit and the Vader. None. The Vader feels like a real bass neck - the spirits (that I've played, at least) felt simply awful.

And it's important to know that the "19mm spacing" is a bit misleading; The bridge is 19mm but the nut is only a 45MM - not much more than 1 3/4. I'd really, really like to see a 1 7/8 nut like on Sadowskys...

 

[Christcr]

They have a signature model of that bass that comes with a Musicmang Humbucker. I was thinking of maybe getting that one but I wanted an all passive Vader.

I actually asked them about that model (the five string Amos-something-or-other model) a couple of weeks ago. I asked them if it could be made in passive and as a short scale (via email). No answer, so I assume the answer is no... and no. Thus, it's back to my original plan: 5 (or maybe 6 string) Vader short 30 inch scale, passive, walnut body/neck, royal ebony fingerboard, single coils.

 

[Christcr]

I want one to replace my Steinberger Spirit 5. I hate the neck on the Steinberger. Hoping the Vader feels more normal, and I love the 19mm spacing on their 5. This will be my next bass purchase and the last thing on my gas list (scouts honor).

The neck on my 4 string is heavenly--I instantly felt comfortable on it. I assume the 5 would be the same basic profile except wider. I'd describe the profile as slightly wide feeling but thin front-to-back with a soft C shape. Definitely sleek feeling and fast playing. My Fender Mustang neck is narrower at the nut but has a fatter profile.

 

[Herrick]

For the base model - the options have gone WAY up.

I thought they seemed expensive when I did my latest order but I don't remember what they were like a few years ago because I never paid attention.

I wanted to get the weight reduction but that required an optional top. I wasn't too keen on the free ones and all the others were like $150 or more plus the added cost of the weight reduction. So I didn't go with that option.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I thought they seemed expensive when I did my latest order but I don't remember what they were like a few years ago because I never paid attention.

I wanted to get the weight reduction but that required an optional top. I wasn't too keen on the free ones and all the others were like $150 or more plus the added cost of the weight reduction. So I didn't go with that option.

Yeah, one of the things that was very attractive about Carvins was those affordable pretty tops. Alas, gotta either buy used or PAY.
But I think that's smart on their part - they should try mass-producing some basic color schemes of the J and P - you know, black, blonde, red, etc. Price them to *sell*.