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Lakland's.
- Thread starter Victor Wooten98
- Start date
the confusion is from the fact that a young person started this thread a long time ago, and then another young person said peavey millenium or grind or something like that was better than a lakland even though by their own admission they hadn't played skyline. they were both chastised.
the thread died, and then a month or so later, someone else said they like cirrus and skylines both. both are good. both are different.
and that's what i agree with.
not lakland is automatically better because their R&D is more devoted, because they outsource to bartolini, etc.
which all looks GREAT on paper, but when you're actually on the gig, it's just a matter of personal preference and what gets the job done for that particular gig and soundscape.
i don't think anybody in their right mind would argue that peavey had better R&D, etc.
the thread died, and then a month or so later, someone else said they like cirrus and skylines both. both are good. both are different.
and that's what i agree with.
not lakland is automatically better because their R&D is more devoted, because they outsource to bartolini, etc.
which all looks GREAT on paper, but when you're actually on the gig, it's just a matter of personal preference and what gets the job done for that particular gig and soundscape.
i don't think anybody in their right mind would argue that peavey had better R&D, etc.
- Nov 14, 2003
- 398
- 10
- 52
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
Superphat,
Thanks for bringing some comedy into this debate as we seem to be doing everything except help the person who is considering which Lakland to purchase, and I dont remember him even saying that Peavey was something in which he was interested. But, I might have misread, he may have mentioned Peavey. Hey folks, Im not big on debating, but I will be more than happy to give my opinions in order to try and help someone make a good decision on any bass, and if a Peavey is what you like, then buy one and enjoy them for a little while, but you will soon find yourself desiring the tonalities of a far more superior bass, so why not buy that one first and save yourself the depreciation on the Peavey.
Thanks for bringing some comedy into this debate as we seem to be doing everything except help the person who is considering which Lakland to purchase, and I dont remember him even saying that Peavey was something in which he was interested. But, I might have misread, he may have mentioned Peavey. Hey folks, Im not big on debating, but I will be more than happy to give my opinions in order to try and help someone make a good decision on any bass, and if a Peavey is what you like, then buy one and enjoy them for a little while, but you will soon find yourself desiring the tonalities of a far more superior bass, so why not buy that one first and save yourself the depreciation on the Peavey.
Well, as you say its all just opinion...my Cirrus blew away both my Laklands in every category...oh well...I would definitely consider buying one again. As for Lakland, never again, a true waste of money...for me.
- Nov 14, 2003
- 398
- 10
- 52
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
Im going to start a new thread, as this one has many good points, which should be discussed, but arent helping anyone deciding between two Lakland models. Look for my new thread.
I have owned and played many high end basses and my Cirrus is far from being muddy. And for the mighty Lakland, I would have to agree with Embellisher, I had a 55-02 for a few weeks and sent it back (as you may have read in other posts). I was really bummed out with the hardware and the neck joint. Everyone compares the 55-02 with the Stingray5........I have a Stingray5 and in my opinion, the 55-02 doesn't even come close in the quality department....... that's just my opinion though.
uh, dont the pros use lakland because they are endorsed? eventually ill find a lakland and ill play it and ill have something to compare my millennium to. until then, thats an imature 14 year old point of view that you are getting.
and the reason i even brought up peavey basses is because he said "any thing else in the $600 range..." and my millennium (though retailed for $1599. just cost me under $500. by the way, the 55-02 also retails for the same.
and the reason i even brought up peavey basses is because he said "any thing else in the $600 range..." and my millennium (though retailed for $1599. just cost me under $500. by the way, the 55-02 also retails for the same.
theaterbass29,
I think the thing that really stood out in the opinions that you posted was your declaration that I interpreted as not one Peavey compares to any Lakland. That's what I'm in disagreement with. Peavey has made and does make instruments that compare very favorably to at least some of the Lakland products!
I compared my two Millennium Plus basses to a 55-94 Deluxe and I have to say that after doing so I didn't feel bad about my basses at all. The owner of the 55-94 also played my basses and he sincerely liked both of them. He really liked them when he found out how much I had invested in them.
We both found a lot of similarities in tone, versatility, etc. but where the 55-94 stood out was in the build quality. Now he didn't sell his Lakland and rush to his nearest Peavey dealer to get a Millennium. He was impressed with them but I admit that the 55-94 was a better instrument overall in general.
I've never seen one but several individuals have reported that the Skyline instruments fall short of the overall quality of their USA made cousins. Some have said that their Skylines have out played the American made Laklands that they've tried and that's believable. It would be similar to an off the rack Fender out performing one that was made in the Custom Shop. It's possible, right?
Since most seem to feel that the Skylines are not in the same league with the USA models and based on my direct comparison of my Millenniums with the 55-94, I would have to assume that the Skylines and the Millenniums to be of similar quality. My Cirrus on the other hand is better constructed than my Millenniums so it goes without saying that I feel that it is closer to being on par with the Lakland USA than with the with the Skylines as far as quality is concerned. Tone is a different thing altogether and depending on your needs, one may be better.
It was me that made the statement regarding Dingwall. How can you say that it's so smart for Lakland to out source their electronics design duties to Bartolini (which, I might add, you don't like.), bad for Peavey to do their own but it's alright for builders like Dingwall/Citron to make their own? Which is it? I personally think that it's smart business to do as much of your work in-house as you can. That is, as long as you can do it at a high level. In the case of the Millennium and Cirrus, I feel that Peavey has done just that.
You obviously prefer the Lakland offering for the type of things that you're doing and that's cool. That still doesn't give you the final say on what's best and who makes it. Best is whatever product that allows the user to accomplish task that they are called upon to perform at a high level. To say that Lakland would have to be the choice if your only options were Peavey and Lakland is ludicrous. Much like me saying that Peavey would be the only choice is silly. The same can be said about Bartolini (which you don't like at all), Aero, Lindy Fralin, etc., etc......
I think the thing that really stood out in the opinions that you posted was your declaration that I interpreted as not one Peavey compares to any Lakland. That's what I'm in disagreement with. Peavey has made and does make instruments that compare very favorably to at least some of the Lakland products!
I compared my two Millennium Plus basses to a 55-94 Deluxe and I have to say that after doing so I didn't feel bad about my basses at all. The owner of the 55-94 also played my basses and he sincerely liked both of them. He really liked them when he found out how much I had invested in them.
We both found a lot of similarities in tone, versatility, etc. but where the 55-94 stood out was in the build quality. Now he didn't sell his Lakland and rush to his nearest Peavey dealer to get a Millennium. He was impressed with them but I admit that the 55-94 was a better instrument overall in general.
I've never seen one but several individuals have reported that the Skyline instruments fall short of the overall quality of their USA made cousins. Some have said that their Skylines have out played the American made Laklands that they've tried and that's believable. It would be similar to an off the rack Fender out performing one that was made in the Custom Shop. It's possible, right?
Since most seem to feel that the Skylines are not in the same league with the USA models and based on my direct comparison of my Millenniums with the 55-94, I would have to assume that the Skylines and the Millenniums to be of similar quality. My Cirrus on the other hand is better constructed than my Millenniums so it goes without saying that I feel that it is closer to being on par with the Lakland USA than with the with the Skylines as far as quality is concerned. Tone is a different thing altogether and depending on your needs, one may be better.
It was me that made the statement regarding Dingwall. How can you say that it's so smart for Lakland to out source their electronics design duties to Bartolini (which, I might add, you don't like.), bad for Peavey to do their own but it's alright for builders like Dingwall/Citron to make their own? Which is it? I personally think that it's smart business to do as much of your work in-house as you can. That is, as long as you can do it at a high level. In the case of the Millennium and Cirrus, I feel that Peavey has done just that.
You obviously prefer the Lakland offering for the type of things that you're doing and that's cool. That still doesn't give you the final say on what's best and who makes it. Best is whatever product that allows the user to accomplish task that they are called upon to perform at a high level. To say that Lakland would have to be the choice if your only options were Peavey and Lakland is ludicrous. Much like me saying that Peavey would be the only choice is silly. The same can be said about Bartolini (which you don't like at all), Aero, Lindy Fralin, etc., etc......
- Nov 14, 2003
- 398
- 10
- 52
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
I actually know one of those guys I mentioned as being a professional, and I can assure you, endorsement or not, they wouldnt use any bass that didnt sound good, trust me, they would be out of work in an instant. These guys have built their reputations up for years and would never take a chance on a bass that doesnt cut the mustard, both live and in the studio. Do this, go to Lakland.com and check out the artists page, then go to Peavey.com and check out their artists page. Hmmm. But again, Im not waging any battles on anyone here, I just think some people are taking my words way to seriously, rather than just what it simply is, a view from perspective.
Do this go to the SWR or Ampeg artists page and then go to the artists page for Ashdown. Hmmm, there's a big difference there also. I wonder why? It certainly doesn't mean that Ashdown is of lesser quality. The only thing that the the artists pages prove to me is that one company has a larger budget to be able to support that sort of thing or that the products that the artists are endorsing have more popularity. That doesn't mean it's better.
EDIT: BTW, Fender has larger artists list than Laklands so Fender is better, right?
- Nov 14, 2003
- 398
- 10
- 52
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
Again, words taken completely out of context. I agree with you Ebozz, for some, the Peavey would be the ultimate winner. I am not comparing the cheapest Lakland 55-01 to your $2000 Cirrus, that is an unfair comparison. I think this is where we are getting out of context, so lets clear this up once and for all.
Korean Made Peavey Mill. vs. Korean 55-01
I like the Lakland
Korean Made Grind NTB vs. Korean 55-02
I like the Lakland
US Peavey Millenium vs. Korean 55-02
Close, might go with Peavey for build.
US Peavey Cirrus vs. US 55-94 Deluxe
Again, I like the Lakland, which is also
available with Demeter preamp, Aguilar
preamp, and Aero and Basslines pickups.
Now, this is how I think that particular models stack up against one another in their respective price ranges. As for the remark about Bartolini, and how Im downing Dingwall and Citron....I think I made this clear earlier, Im not at all downing someone who can do it all, but very, VERY few can do it all and do it well. You would be suprised to know the number of luthiers who say they do it all in house but actually contract out every piece outside. They dont contract out because they cant do the work, they have to do it to maintain orders. One such luthier is Roger Sadowksy, who now contracts out every thing on his basses, his people basically paint the bodys, finish the necks, and wire the electronics, and they have a bass, but they have to do this to keep up with massive orders, and right now, there is a 6 month wait on a new Sadowsky. Im sorry, I dont like the IC preamps that Peavey uses, just like I dont like the ones on late model Stingrays. You can never fail with something hardwired, and you can beat being able to service it yourself, but again, anytime you see a pc board preamp, you know the luthier didnt have time to wire a preamp, so he orders mulitple pc boards already wired to save him time. The EQs on these boards are not musical, they may work, but once you hear a really musical EQ, you will know just how unmusical those old PC boards really were.
Korean Made Peavey Mill. vs. Korean 55-01
I like the Lakland
Korean Made Grind NTB vs. Korean 55-02
I like the Lakland
US Peavey Millenium vs. Korean 55-02
Close, might go with Peavey for build.
US Peavey Cirrus vs. US 55-94 Deluxe
Again, I like the Lakland, which is also
available with Demeter preamp, Aguilar
preamp, and Aero and Basslines pickups.
Now, this is how I think that particular models stack up against one another in their respective price ranges. As for the remark about Bartolini, and how Im downing Dingwall and Citron....I think I made this clear earlier, Im not at all downing someone who can do it all, but very, VERY few can do it all and do it well. You would be suprised to know the number of luthiers who say they do it all in house but actually contract out every piece outside. They dont contract out because they cant do the work, they have to do it to maintain orders. One such luthier is Roger Sadowksy, who now contracts out every thing on his basses, his people basically paint the bodys, finish the necks, and wire the electronics, and they have a bass, but they have to do this to keep up with massive orders, and right now, there is a 6 month wait on a new Sadowsky. Im sorry, I dont like the IC preamps that Peavey uses, just like I dont like the ones on late model Stingrays. You can never fail with something hardwired, and you can beat being able to service it yourself, but again, anytime you see a pc board preamp, you know the luthier didnt have time to wire a preamp, so he orders mulitple pc boards already wired to save him time. The EQs on these boards are not musical, they may work, but once you hear a really musical EQ, you will know just how unmusical those old PC boards really were.
- Nov 14, 2003
- 398
- 10
- 52
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
Let me ask you a question Ebozzz, do you know how an artist endorsement works with a company like Lakland, vs. Peavey?
Let me fill you in...Lakland charges all endorsees the same price they would charge a dealer, dealer price, which is usually 50% of retail, unless a special order. Peavey is the one who gives their gear away in order to use someones picture in BassPlayer magazine. As for Ashdown, come on James Lomenzo, the washed out former bassist for White Lion, who now does good to get a gig in Slashs snakepit. Im talking serious artists here, and besides if you want to get into a whole new discussion, Ashdown makes a quality product with a good design, but in no way compares to Eden or Aguilar, or EA.
Let me fill you in...Lakland charges all endorsees the same price they would charge a dealer, dealer price, which is usually 50% of retail, unless a special order. Peavey is the one who gives their gear away in order to use someones picture in BassPlayer magazine. As for Ashdown, come on James Lomenzo, the washed out former bassist for White Lion, who now does good to get a gig in Slashs snakepit. Im talking serious artists here, and besides if you want to get into a whole new discussion, Ashdown makes a quality product with a good design, but in no way compares to Eden or Aguilar, or EA.
Now we're getting somewhere.
The only problems that I have with the list is that the thing that Peavey now calls the Millennium shouldn't even be there. It's designed to be an entry level instrument. Shoot, I don't even know why they chose to call that thing a Millennium! The 55-01 definitely outclasses it by a long way! The Grind NTB is less expensive than the 55-01 so the comparison would probably be fairer against it rather than the 55-02. I totally agree with you on the US Millennium/55-02 comparison. An individual might prefer the tone/feel of one to the other. The Cirrus/55-94 match is one that's the hardest for me. The attributes of each are so different and if I could only have one, I would most likely choose the 55-94. To be honest with you if I didn't have my Millenniums, A Lakland of some sort would probably be in the fold. I understand how workload would make it necessary for work to be out sourced and how it could cause problems in other areas of production if it were not. Even so, I still feel that the electronics used on the Millennium & Cirrus are of very good quality. Now the point that you make about how the preamp boards are constructed is valid. I had a dirty pot on one of my Millenniums that was a lot more time consuming than I would have liked for me to clean it properly. You may have a point regarding the musicality of preamps. I haven't run into that issue as of yet but I will keep my ears open.
I understand that it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Someone like Michael Tobias might only provide an instrument at a discounted price while Fender I'm sure gives away a lot of products. I've asked that question of Peavey representatives and have been told that they don't give anything away free. While I'm not sure that's entirely true, I would tend to think that their artist's list would be a little better represented if they only gave away gear.
My point regarding Ashdown was that if you look at their list of artists, a person might think the products that they have aren't of good quality. I'm here to tell you that would be totally incorrect regarding the Ashdown gear that I've tried. For example, I own an Ashdown RPM-1 preamp. There are some who feel that it falls just short of the Aguilar DB680 preamp and it's less than half the cost! See the following thread...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103579&highlight=RPM1
I wouldn't know as I've never had the opportunity to try the DB680. I also think that my RPM-1 campares very favorably to the Eden Navigator preamp and I have heard that one. In fact, I like what I have more. Never tried any EA products either so I can't comment.
Regardless, the point that I'm trying to make is that a list of endorsees doesn't determine whether a product is good or bad. Genz Benz doesn't have an artists list to speak of but I'm of the opinion that their bass gear would hold it's own with SWR, Ampeg, Eden (yes, Eden) and others. It's simply not as well known as it's competitors and their stuff may never be as popular. Oh yeah, Matt Garrison and Lenny Kravitz endorse Ashdown. Are they serious enough for ya?
ebozzz...i think you were actually what made me go ahead and buy the millennium 5. i heard (saw) you ranting about it and i had seen one on ebay and i didnt know whether or not to buy it, but i did. im so glad i did. yes, yours is prettier, but mine is pretty enough for me. any prettier and i believe it would exceed my prettiness. just thought id let you know how influential you were in my bass purchasing decision.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558230089&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6
the pictures dont due it a bit of justice, but you get the idea.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558230089&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6
the pictures dont due it a bit of justice, but you get the idea.
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