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learning scale patterns

#101
Suggested mode exercise for fingering dexterity and ear training

Play every mode from the G on the low E string up an octave plus a fifth. Play the notes in groups of three on a given string with shifts, string change between groups

So G Major is:
G A B on E string
C D E on A string
F# G A on D string
B C D on D string.

Repeat for the 6 other modes.
 
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#102
Whousedtoplay said:
Steve,

Let's take the most recent Chris' transcription - Gil Scott, "Heron".
Bass Transcriptions
It's just POP music and very simple.
Now.
In verse, we have, mostly, two chords - Dmin7 and Ebmaj7.
Ebmaj7
as

Gmin7
Eb = Upper chord Gmin7 and the bass - Ron Carter - Eb major triad.

Now.
How could you link harmonically those two chords?
Do you see any mode/s?

See a few measures of the bass line.

View attachment 3808782
Click to expand...

I would say they are iim7 and III^7 in the key of C minor. Should be written with 3 flats, then use natural accidentals (all diatonic in minor) for the major 6ths (A) that appear on the first line:

upload_2020-4-30_17-27-0.png
 
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#105
Whousedtoplay said:
What if you remove one flat - Ab?

Plus, some more chords in Verse.

Amin7 and Gmin7

View attachment 3808830


Click to expand...


The Gm7 is diatonic v in Cm, then the Am7 is borrowed vi from the parallel major key, perhaps? The only truly chromatic note is the E natural in the Am7, which we've already seen in that C7 chord... But I've not listened to the song so it's just guessing right now...
 
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#106
SteveCS said:
An interesting observation. But I know in my case I learned about the natural, melodic and harmonic minor scales long before getting into modes of the major scale. In doing so, the understanding of the minor key as an entity in its own right was assimilated long before coming across the Aeolian and Dorian modes. I imagine the same would be true for a lot of folks.

So thinking of scales of the minor key in terms of their relationship with the various modes of the major scale seems somewhat convoluted to me. If I'm working in the minor key I would never think in terms of modified modes of the major scale - it's all just 'minor'.

YMMV
Click to expand...
Yep, it is all just minor. The thing is the changes are moving and if you want to get the sound in, you've already realized it just a one note difference. If you can hear it, you can play it and move on. It's fine to think of all the theoretical aspects, and you do need to get into it and be familiar with the form. But when you're on the stage, in the heat of battle all that theory goes out the window and you need to just execute your ideas.

Ultimately, it's about expressing a sentiment, so I never want to come off as sounding like I'm playing theory. But there are many roads leading to that point, and however you choose to come at it is fine.
 
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#107
SteveCS said:
The Gm7 is diatonic v in Cm, then the Am7 is borrowed vi from the parallel major key, perhaps? The only truly chromatic note is the E natural in the Am7, which we've already seen in that C7 chord... But I've not listened to the song so it's just guessing right now...
Click to expand...

Thank you for your discussion.
Let's add a question.

The piano player with officially assigned Dmin7, plays harmonic movement C major to Dmin.
Could it affect your choice of the key signature?

A short, EQ-ed soundclip of those 2 measures of Dmin7.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=0fc8808fa38a15f0365dbb68deda080c
 

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#108
IamGroot said:
Yes. My jazz mentor once told a jazz class the problem with guitarists was they memorized fingers so they worked on reflexes instead of brains and listening.

Learning to think and hear scales in terms of degrees was a very good thing for me.
Click to expand...

I'm impressed with level of musical literacy on TalkBass. It's a real pleasure to read and learn from all of you who share so generously. I was going to make a thread to effect of: "Bassists make the best musicians". Sure, hyperbolic and somewhat self congratulatory ;) but what I mean is that not being by nature a chordal instrument, we play chordal arpeggios and pieces of them and so are forced to think about the individual notes which make up the chords which leads us into harmony and thinking in terms of building off of scale degrees and all the things we have been talking about. (if one is so inclined of course). I also have a guitar and am also interested in chord melody playing. I just think it's beautiful. But I always find myself coming back to the bass. For me it's the perfect platform for exploring and discovering and learning. My laboratory.
 
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#111
Whousedtoplay said:
Thank you for your discussion.
Let's add a question.

The piano player with officially assigned Dmin7, plays harmonic movement C major to Dmin.
Could it affect your choice of the key signature?

A short, EQ-ed soundclip of those 2 measures of Dmin7.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=0fc8808fa38a15f0365dbb68deda080c
Click to expand...

Without looking deeper I can't say, but I doubt it. I have to say that being locked down is bad enough without a dose of analysis-paralysis, so it will have to wait this time...
 
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#115
Malcolm35 said:
="Whousedtoplay, post: 23927631, member: 243483"
Click to expand...

You were not here for awhile, good to see your back.
Click to expand...

I've already irritated quite a few of my nice TB members in this thread with my musical questions.:crying:

Just the last question about knowing what note to play.:confused: o_O

From "Harmony 1" by Barrie Nettles.
Berklee College of Music.

I'm trying to figure out what note should I play in the following example from that book?:banghead:


What note.PNG
 
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#118
OK, you don't have to memorize the patterns to play the nodes. After you play them enough you WILL retain the patterns. But using the below advice you can play any mode without having the pattern memorized.

All you need to play any node of the major scale is to be able to count to 8, know the difference between a half step and whole step and remember the half steps are between 3-4 and 7-8.

major scale: start counting at 1...whole step 2...whole step 3...HALF step 4...whole step 5...whole step 6...whole step 7...HALF step 8(octave)

to play dorian, start counting with 2, keep the half steps between 3-4 and 7-8 end on 2

etc etc.
 
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#120
dave_p said:
OK, you don't have to memorize the patterns to play the nodes. After you play them enough you WILL retain the patterns. But using the below advice you can play any mode without having the pattern memorized.

All you need to play any node of the major scale is to be able to count to 8, know the difference between a half step and whole step and remember the half steps are between 3-4 and 7-8.

major scale: start counting at 1...whole step 2...whole step 3...HALF step 4...whole step 5...whole step 6...whole step 7...HALF step 8(octave)

to play dorian, start counting with 2, keep the half steps between 3-4 and 7-8 end on 2

etc etc.
Click to expand...
Pretty soon this guy will be playing like Billy Sheehan and saying, I'm ready! Where's Paul Gilbert! lol
It's good to see how many people know theory. All the bands I've been in, I was the only one that knew any theory. The other guys would just learn cover songs note for note and not understand why or how the song was built, theory wise. I loved being in the band that played mostly originals. You can write your own bass lines. Theory comes in handy for that.
 

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