learning scale patterns

[SteveCS]

A flat flat flat ? ? ?

That's what they teach at Berkl-EE.

Clue: An accidental cancels all previous accidentals. If you see Ab followed by A# it is A# not A natural. So Abb is enharmonic with G, notwithstanding the Ab in the signature. That's why there is a natural accidental.

 

[SteveCS]

That's what they teach at Berkl-EE.

I hope not!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I hope not!

Only at BerklEE you can learn the Minor sus4 chord.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

So Abb is enharmonic with G, notwithstanding the Ab in the signature. That's why there is a natural accidental.

The plot thickens!
What do other TB members think?

 

[Thundertips]

The plot thickens!
What do other TB members think?

Confucius say... I'm confused. lol

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Why not learn both?
For many people, learning the pattern helps us to learn the notes.

The reason to not rely on fixed patterns is that it becomes a crutch, much like tabulature. If you absolutely know the notes, you will not need to think about the patterns.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Do you associate the Simandl method with some kind of "pattern/s"?

Having not studied the Simandl method (or double bass for that matter), I cannot fully answer that.

 

[MVE]

The reason to not rely on fixed patterns is that it becomes a crutch, much like tabulature. If you absolutely know the notes, you will not need to think about the patterns.

I disagree, it is far better to use a crutch than to sit hobbled in a chair until your broken leg heals.

 

[Spin Doctor]

The reason to not rely on fixed patterns is that it becomes a crutch, much like tabulature. If you absolutely know the notes, you will not need to think about the patterns.

Damian Erskine says he's a pattern player, and it hasn't seemed to hurt his ability to play at a virtuoso level

 

[Spin Doctor]

The plot thickens!
What do other TB members think?

Yeah you play a "G". The note is A double flat.

 

[consectaneus]

It just so happens that the notes fall in patterns. I don't know how you separate the two. If it's a question of relying on patterns the exclusion of knowing the notes I haven't seen anyone advocate that.

 

[jsbachonbass]

Let me offer you guys an alternative to the MILLPAD that fits under the hand a little easier without the 5 fret stretches. This is the pattern using scale degrees:

C~~|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
G~~|---|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
D~~|---|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
A~~|---|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
E~~|---|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
B~~|---|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

The pattern starts over with the 5 & 6 scale degrees, but will offset by 1 fret.

On 4 string, you can break this up into 3 patterns that are 5 frets apart:
G~0|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
D~0|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
A~0|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
E~0|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

G~5|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
D~5|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
A~5|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
E~5|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|

G~10|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
D~10|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
A~10|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
E~10|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|

Pattern starts over at 12th fret:
G~12|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
D~12|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
A~12|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
E~12|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

This is hard to explain using this text base system. If you want to know more, message me.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Let me offer you guys an alternative to the MILLPAD that fits under the hand a little easier without the 5 fret stretches. This is the pattern using scale degrees:

C~~|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
G~~|---|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
D~~|---|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
A~~|---|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
E~~|---|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
B~~|---|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

The pattern starts over with the 5 & 6 scale degrees, but will offset by 1 fret.

On 4 string, you can break this up into 3 patterns that are 5 frets apart:
G~0|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
D~0|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
A~0|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
E~0|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

G~5|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
D~5|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
A~5|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
E~5|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|

G~10|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
D~10|---|-2-|—-|-3-|-4-|
A~10|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
E~10|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|

Pattern starts over at 12th fret:
G~12|---|-6-|—-|-7-|-R-|
D~12|---|-3-|-4-|—-|-5-|
A~12|---|-7-|-R-|—-|-2-|
E~12|---|---|-5-|-—|-6-|

This is hard to explain using this text base system. If you want to know more, message me.

If you learn modes using the 3 note per string method, you end up with all these patterns by default. The other method methods teaches you to shift your hand, so you can get around the fretboard rather than staying sort of stuck in one spot. But as I always say, they are many ways of approaching the problem.

 

[Malcolm35]

Thanks for posting I'll get out my ole handy dandy fretboard chart and spend some time with this.

 

[jsbachonbass]

If you learn modes using the 3 note per string method, you end up with all these patterns by default. The other method methods teaches you to shift your hand, so you can get around the fretboard rather than staying sort of stuck in one spot. But as I always say, they are many ways of approaching the problem.

Yes, but the way I use it is too shift horizontally as well as vertically. On 4 string, it narrows it down from 7 patterns to the 3 most comfortable ones. This is useful for reading and ear training exercises I have been working on.
Like you said, this is just another way to approach things. I have been wanting to share this for a while.

 

[IamGroot]

Steve,

Let's take the most recent Chris' transcription - Gil Scott, "Heron".
Bass Transcriptions
It's just POP music and very simple.
Now.
In verse, we have, mostly, two chords - Dmin7 and Ebmaj7.
Ebmaj7
as

Gmin7
Eb = Upper chord Gmin7 and the bass - Ron Carter - Eb major triad.

Now.
How could you link harmonically those two chords?
Do you see any mode/s?

See a few measures of the bass line.

View attachment 3808782

Ah, the diatonic modes starting with D Phrygian to Eb Lydian...... The ear worm for me is "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane.

i D Phrygian
II Eb Lydian
III F Mixolydian
iv G Aeolian
v A Locrian
VI Bb Ionian
vii C Dorian.

Apologizing in advance if I am misunderstanding.

Am I misunderstanding now?

 

[Mark Ambler]

Thank you for your discussion.
Let's add a question.

The piano player with officially assigned Dmin7, plays harmonic movement C major to Dmin.
Could it affect your choice of the key signature?

A short, EQ-ed soundclip of those 2 measures of Dmin7.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=0fc8808fa38a15f0365dbb68deda080c

Based on the sound clip, the key signature is D minor (1 flat) imo.

 

[Mark Ambler]

I've already irritated quite a few of my nice TB members in this thread with my musical questions.

Just the last question about knowing what note to play.

From "Harmony 1" by Barrie Nettles.
Berklee College of Music.

I'm trying to figure out what note should I play in the following example from that book?


View attachment 3808930

G. Never come across a triple flat note, if they exist, they shouldn’t.

Especially if parts are for using live, without prior study, it’s best to make them as easy as possible to read. I wrote a bebop head that if written ‘correctly’ would have a few key signature changes, far better to write it with all the accidentals and no key signature. This has prevented a few potential train wrecks, ime.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Only at BerklEE you can learn the Minor sus4 chord.

View attachment 3809039

That’s just wrong.

Hopefully I don’t need to elaborate.

 

[SteveCS]

I've already irritated quite a few of my nice TB members in this thread with my musical questions.
...

I hope you don't think I was irritated. It's just that after I posted the score extract I went out for a walk with my son so couldn't really think it through.


Interesting that now we have suggestions of Cm (3 flats), Dm (1 flat) and 'modes of Bb Major' (2 flats). What do you think is right?