Learning songs you REALLY DON'T LIKE

[petrus61]

While I play in both, they're completely different audiences. I've seen amazing original acts get laughed out of honkey tonks and cover bands get booed out of dive bars. Context is everything and sometimes you can't wash the taste of crap out of people's mouths. It's incredibly awkward to watch a young original act try to bowl over baby boomers in lawn chairs at the town park pavilion, just as it is equally awkward to watch a smokin blues band full of baby boomers try to rock a crowd of 17 year olds. That's why the originals vs covers argument is just silly. If you know your place, there isn't really an argument to be had.

 

[morgansterne]

.If you know your place, there isn't really an argument to be had.

need a bumper sticker or possibly a tattoo of this statement!

 

[danosix]

While I play in both, they're completely different audiences. I've seen amazing original acts get laughed out of honkey tonks and cover bands get booed out of dive bars. Context is everything and sometimes you can't wash the taste of crap out of people's mouths. It's incredibly awkward to watch a young original act try to bowl over baby boomers in lawn chairs at the town park pavilion, just as it is equally awkward to watch a smokin blues band full of baby boomers try to rock a crowd of 17 year olds. That's why the originals vs covers argument is just silly. If you know your place, there isn't really an argument to be had.

I totally agree - neither is inherently superior and I once again apologize if I added any fuel to that fire. Originals has the pleasure of creating something of your own and performing it and attempting to craft it into something beautiful and worthwhile. On the other hand, covers allows you to play to audiences who already know and appreciate the material (not that that's any guarantee - how many of us have been booked into hard-core clubs in our oldies bands or vice versa?) and to just enjoy the performance aspect and (often) make a few bucks.

 

[danosix]

While I play in both, they're completely different audiences. I've seen amazing original acts get laughed out of honkey tonks and cover bands get booed out of dive bars. Context is everything and sometimes you can't wash the taste of crap out of people's mouths. It's incredibly awkward to watch a young original act try to bowl over baby boomers in lawn chairs at the town park pavilion, just as it is equally awkward to watch a smokin blues band full of baby boomers try to rock a crowd of 17 year olds. That's why the originals vs covers argument is just silly. If you know your place, there isn't really an argument to be had.

Why is it so many people who book bands don't know their audience? They either just book what they like (which as often as not is not what their crowd likes), think they can book a variety of acts with no regularity or advertising or they don't know the difference between classic rock or blues or country - they are very different crowds.
I was in an Elvis Tribute band for a few years - high end show band only played shows in Theatres with audiences who know what they were getting and they came back. One theatre we went to for a couple of years as it was refurbishing we rented and filled every time. Then they got a new "manager" and she decided they'd wouldn't rent the theatre out anymore, just hire acts and sell tickets. Remember - we'd filled the theatre repeatedly (tickets were still through their box office so they knew) - so we said, "okay, hire us" and she said, "I don't like Elvis." Well so what? I don't like Elvis, your audience on the other hand has proven it does and it buys tickets (very few of their shows sold-out). I've been in blues bands that got hired to country bars (bar owner quote: "blues, country, it's the same thing") and got killed by the audience. Very few groups can adjust their material enough to accommodate the "wrong" crowd - especially as it takes a few songs to fet them to really hate you by which time you don't have the good will to let you try.

 

[danosix]

Interesting how this thread evolved into a debate on cover bands vs original. I tried to lay everything out in my OP to avoid this kind of debate, since it's not really what I intended. Many, if not all of us, are sidemen in our respective groups. Whether cover or original, we are often asked to play other peoples music, whether it was written by Joe the carpenter or Neil Diamond. The source isn't really so much the issue as it is the material itself. I also see a few posts that seem to link not wanting to play and learn certain songs somehow equates to a lack of musical skill, which I also tried to sort out in my OP...the song has lots of parts, but my issue isn't the difficulty of the material, it's the fact that I loathe the song and that, and only that, is why I'm venting here.

As for an update, I spoke with the band leader yesterday. We talked about a few of the other songs on this list and finished our conversation. Just before he left, I said "Have I ever told you how much a despise that Meatloaf song?" He looked at me like I had two heads. "I would probably rather have the flu for a month than endure listening to it for one more minute, let alone playing it." He was still kind of searching for words so I said what he was going to say for him..."But I'm sure the crowd goes nuts for it and it's always gone over really well and is probably going to be the nights closer, right?" He said yes, kind of looking crestfallen. "Then I'll have it in the bag for Thursday rehearsal, but I just had to share that with you." He smiled but I could tell he was a little taken aback...the poor guy actually LIKES the song! It's all good though.

I'm going to get through it, and though I definitely will NOT be a better skilled musician for it, I'll have considered myself a SURVIVOR with the patience and mental stamina of a NINJA...

But I can't help but feel a little piece of me dying inside as I imagine myself committing to the song. Sometimes a song just really, really SUCKS.

If you mistook my suggestion of "focus on the challenge" as a slight on your abilities, it was not intended that way - I just meant distract yourself from the horrible-ness of the song by finding something else to focus on. For some songs the challenge may indeed be 'staying awake through it' or 'not scratching your own eyeballs out'.

 

[danosix]

I think... different goals have different approaches.... When I play in a cover band whose only goal is to play out and make as much money as possible, I play whatever people want to hear, including Mustang Sally and Sweet Home Alabama and smile while I'm doing it.
Right, the goal of playing to please yourself is entirely valid.
But if that is your goal, why would it even be an issue? Why would you be faced with having to play songs you hate if it's not to please the person (people) paying you?

 

[xgator4u]

Why is it so many people who book bands don't know their audience? They either just book what they like (which as often as not is not what their crowd likes), think they can book a variety of acts with no regularity or advertising or they don't know the difference between classic rock or blues or country - they are very different crowds.
I was in an Elvis Tribute band for a few years - high end show band only played shows in Theatres with audiences who know what they were getting and they came back. One theatre we went to for a couple of years as it was refurbishing we rented and filled every time. Then they got a new "manager" and she decided they'd wouldn't rent the theatre out anymore, just hire acts and sell tickets. Remember - we'd filled the theatre repeatedly (tickets were still through their box office so they knew) - so we said, "okay, hire us" and she said, "I don't like Elvis." Well so what? I don't like Elvis, your audience on the other hand has proven it does and it buys tickets (very few of their shows sold-out). I've been in blues bands that got hired to country bars (bar owner quote: "blues, country, it's the same thing") and got killed by the audience. Very few groups can adjust their material enough to accommodate the "wrong" crowd - especially as it takes a few songs to fet them to really hate you by which time you don't have the good will to let you try.

Booking agents are an un usual species unto themselves.
It is a well known FACT that they are 1 chromosome away from sound men.
They not only have NO clue as to the FACT that all music is NOT the same,
but I have yet to meet one that understands time/space physics,
or even OWNS a fukking GLOBE.
BUT

They DO understand %

 

[10cc]

Why is it so many people who book bands don't know their audience? They either just book what they like (which as often as not is not what their crowd likes), think they can book a variety of acts with no regularity or advertising or they don't know the difference between classic rock or blues or country - they are very different crowds.
I was in an Elvis Tribute band for a few years - high end show band only played shows in Theatres with audiences who know what they were getting and they came back. One theatre we went to for a couple of years as it was refurbishing we rented and filled every time. Then they got a new "manager" and she decided they'd wouldn't rent the theatre out anymore, just hire acts and sell tickets. Remember - we'd filled the theatre repeatedly (tickets were still through their box office so they knew) - so we said, "okay, hire us" and she said, "I don't like Elvis." Well so what? I don't like Elvis, your audience on the other hand has proven it does and it buys tickets (very few of their shows sold-out). I've been in blues bands that got hired to country bars (bar owner quote: "blues, country, it's the same thing") and got killed by the audience. Very few groups can adjust their material enough to accommodate the "wrong" crowd - especially as it takes a few songs to fet them to really hate you by which time you don't have the good will to let you try.

I was in a band once for a long while that still to the day performs. They've been around since 97 under the same name released a handful of albums and we would play all over the southeast and one thing we were good at was feeling what the house wanted. People down in Louisiana wanted something different than Florida or South Carolina or wherever. So we would pay attention and once they bit on a certain song we would just start culling from that part of our catalog. It would really surprise us sometimes at what you thought they wanted to hear and what we ended up playing.

Lucky enough we had around 300 originals and practiced twice a week and played out 2-3 times a week for a few years. After a few visits making annual rounds we had established a good following with crowds every time we played in all the towns. The band still has big crowds. Anyhow getting back to pressing how important it is being able to adjust. (excellent point Danosix)

Hell that band hasn't once in its life written a set list.

 

[petrus61]

If you mistook my suggestion of "focus on the challenge" as a slight on your abilities, it was not intended that way - I just meant distract yourself from the horrible-ness of the song by finding something else to focus on. For some songs the challenge may indeed be 'staying awake through it' or 'not scratching your own eyeballs out'.

I wasn't referring to your posts, just trying to maintain the context of the OP. I actually played along to the song yesterday morning and left all the charts in the bag. I was surprised that I was catching the changes as well as I did, considering I haven't really been able to get through it out of sheer disdain for it. It hasn't grown on me in the slightest, unfortunately.

It's weird, but there's been music that I totally disliked that I inherited at least some respect for in the course of learning it and was able to take away at least something minutely positive from. I can see that won't be the case with this one. This song is complete and utter crap with zero redeeming qualities. I want to tell Meatloaf personally how much I hate it. It's garbage.

 

[xgator4u]

This song is complete and utter crap with zero redeeming qualities. I want to tell Meatloaf personally how much I hate it. It's garbage.

I think Mr. LOAF

already knows.

 

[RandalPinkFloyd]

I keep hearing how Mustang Sally packs a dance floor, but on the rare occasion my ears have had to suffer through it (and it's almost always via DJ, as the cover bands I've seen live or been in never play it) it has never packed the dance floor. And it's not a Utah thing because I just moved here from Texas.

 

[danosix]

I wasn't referring to your posts, just trying to maintain the context of the OP. I actually played along to the song yesterday morning and left all the charts in the bag. I was surprised that I was catching the changes as well as I did, considering I haven't really been able to get through it out of sheer disdain for it. It hasn't grown on me in the slightest, unfortunately.

It's weird, but there's been music that I totally disliked that I inherited at least some respect for in the course of learning it and was able to take away at least something minutely positive from. I can see that won't be the case with this one. This song is complete and utter crap with zero redeeming qualities. I want to tell Meatloaf personally how much I hate it. It's garbage.

Great, just making sure (I did see there were others who clearly were doing that and didn't want to be a part of that).