Let's be completely honest here about vintage basses...

[TMARK]

Points granted. You're killing it today! Which brand coffee?

My schedule is open today and the phone hasn't been ringing of the hook, and I'm at a computer not my iPhone. I can't think typing on an iPhone.

Otherwise, I've been drinking Tall Bike Co. coffee. And lots of it.

I am also excited that my G&L is ready and didn't need a refret.

 

[king_biscuit]

UOTE]

These are fundamental drivers that really overshadow the reasons for some dude buying back his youth by spending $12,000 on a '63 P bass.

Expect maybe it's not. Maybe -- in some cases -- it's a misplaced extrapolation of man's biological desire to attract a mate by showing prosperity. I'd like to see the machine that can test for this motivation!

 

[TMARK]

Points granted. You're killing it today! Which brand coffee?

It is fascinating, when you look for the signs!

 

[TMARK]

UOTE]




Expect maybe it's not. Maybe -- in some cases -- it's a misplaced extrapolation of man's biological desire to attract a mate by showing prosperity. I'd like to see the machine that can test for this motivation!

Yeah but the ladies don't care about an old bass. An expensive car, however, will get noticed!

 

[king_biscuit]

Yeah but the ladies don't care about an old bass. An expensive car, however, will get noticed!

Maybe, but we are talking about complex subconscious motivations.

 

[TMARK]

Maybe, but we are talking about complex subconscious motivations.

True, I was speaking in terms of objective reality, not the bass collector's subconscious desire.

 

[king_biscuit]

True, I was speaking in terms of objective reality, not the bass collector's subconscious desire.

The stated "objective" reason for -- for example -- buying a vintage bass even it truthful and accurate, has to taken in context of complex subconscious value judgments leading to the stated "objective" reason offered. This leads us down a never ending black hole of the unknown...

 

[GretschWretch]

Where do shoes, diamonds, clothes, etc., fit in with this?

Link Removed

 

[TMARK]

Agree absolutely with all you say here. In fact I intended to say much of it, but could not have said it better. I appreciate your making these arguably provocative statements
about the primacy of social hierarchy to women -- you spared me the dirty work. But I think it key to understanding women, and woe to the man who ignores this truth.

Interestingly, I think our hypothetical "man in the den polishing vintage bass" doesn't really much care what others think of his bass, a pal or two aside. He bought that
object for himself, not the world. I think his pursuit is more hermetic. Perhaps it is as simple as the fact that contemporary men no longer get a "gold watch" from the company. They have to get their own. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and all that.

It is hermetic, you are right. This is the distinction. I was stuck in traffic and it hit me: buying the trophy bass is self actualizing, or wish fulfillment. Or both. Either way it is hermetic, and so differs from women and LVMH products.

I am not passing judgment here. This is just a hypothesis based on generalities.

 

[Bassheart365]

Old stuff is better than new stuff. Everyone knows that!

 

[Bassheart365]

From a hardware standpoint, I would agree any mid priced modern bass is vastly superior to my 63 P Bass. The fretwork on my 63 (which has original frets owing to a lifetime of flatwounds) is passable, but it is not on par with most modern basses. The big advantage to a vintage instrument, in my opinion, is the wood. My 63's body is a lightweight resonant old growth alder and the neck is straight-grained maple with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard. Those woods are virtually impossible to obtain today, especially with the benefit of fifty years of aging. Wood is the one reason why old instruments will always be special.

Bingo.

 

[Bassheart365]

Just a passing observation...the word "mojo" - at least when we are talking about an inanimate object - is completely meaningless. You might as well say that its the little unicorns with magical powers that live in vintage instruments which make them sound better than the new ones.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It's a bit of natural selection that leaves the "best" genes to the next generation for those that we consider "vintage".

A counter argument is that a proportion of those for sale are the ones that people don't like and want to part with. Some sales will be due to financial issues, change of tastes, retirement from music, etc., but as to what proportion of those for sale are 'the best' or better than any other set of any other year of production would be hard to say.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My one functioning electric guitar cost me $40. It plays and sounds fine.

My most expensive bass cost me $130 new, shipped. My next most expensive one cost $125. My only other bass cost me $40. And I'll likely be selling a bass soon, bringing me back down to two.

And I thought I was cheap, I mean, gloriously inexpensive Seriously, if those are decent players and sound good, all power to you, although they'd cost £130 and so on here, so about 1.5x the price.

I have an issue with quantity, which I am trying to get on top of. When you have two basses which are identical apart from colour, it's time to sit down and think about it...

And sorry to hear about the flood. I hope things get better for you.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Just a passing observation...the word "mojo" - at least when we are talking about an inanimate object - is completely meaningless. You might as well say that its the little unicorns with magical powers that live in vintage instruments which make them sound better than the new ones.

Are these like the tiny dragons that provide the magic blue smoke in tube amps?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Bingo.

I suppose the ultimate in old wood in an electric guitar is the 18th century fireplace that formed the basis of Brian May's guitar, apart from that one built out of some fossilised wood. I suppose that would be the ultimate tonewood test Maybe I should hang around 100 year old house refits and snag any mahogany they toss out and make something along the lines of a Wishbass

 

[-Asdfgh-]

They're cool, the big difference between a old bass from a new bass is patina and wear. It's like owning a old car.

I suppose the difference is you can buy a new bass that is functionally the same as one of the old basses, with pretty much identical components, for less than an old car, but you'd have a hard time buying a new Mini Cooper [roughly the same vintage as the split pickup P bass] that is the same as the old ones for 1/10th what you could get an old one for as they don't make them like that any more. It would be like only being able to buy a Wal now.

 

[SteveCS]

Anything old eventually becomes a curiosity. If there is some connection with specific historical events or periods then those curiosities become collectible and the price goes up. Good and bad examples of all curiosities exist and for a while the market price will reflect this. Eventually, historic curiosities become more rare and therefore more collectible. This drives prices up further, irrespective of how 'good' or 'bad' the example is. IMO, today's prices of vintage instruments (not only Fenders) reflect the rarity and collectability value to elite collectors and not the musical value to the working musician, who is forced by the elite collectors to play in the 'antiques' game in order to find what they are looking for. This is a shame, but is also reality. IMO (again) you cannot compare the price/value of vintage and modern instruments based on playability or sound/tone, as the price of vintage is now being driven by other (non-musical) factors.

 

[Watchootognbout]

To me,buying vintage for the sake of having a vintage is meaningless.
With very few exceptions(Ric)I can't stand retro styles.
Everything has paint,chrome and a pickguard.
And those that aren't are stained.

As for the sound.
You would have to do a blind comparison test to determine whether many can determine the difference between the sound of vintage and modern basses.

 

[LanEvo]

I note that the vintage market started blowing up around the time "relicing" became popular. So at base it can feel like a lie.

The market for vintage guitars started in the '70s when players came realize their modern (CBS- and Norlin-era) Fenders and Gibsons were dogs compared to the same models made from '51-'52 to '63-'64. The relic thing came about some 25-30 years later.

What has changed seems to be that the prices have gone up due to the excess capital some customers have to spend, and the time interval (pre-CBS is 50 years old now, not 20).

With a few exceptions (e.g., late-'58 to early-'60 Les Paul Standards) vintage prices are much lower these days than they've been for a long time. I think pure "collectors," like the archetypal rich Japanese businessman/investor, have learned there are more reliable investments.

With all these forums (like TB), specialized dealers (like Rivington Guitars), and dedicated auction sites (like Reverb) I think you're seeing more vintage guitars in the hands of players than collectors lately. You can still find great deals on player-grade vintage guitars and basses.