Let's clear one thing one and for all: Tonewood: Does it really matter?

[Wolffgang]

So let's all buy poplar/balsa bass bodies, and save 2-3 pounds per bass.

With the exception of the loss of beauty, I would be so on board with that. Hell, just put a fancy top on it and you're most of the way there.

I have parts built precision with a soft pine body that's one of my favourite basses.

 

[Wolffgang]

You can't really trust your ears OR your eyes. Squares A and B are exactly the same shade:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

No, Mr Jayne; I see your game. The squares are different shades. My eyes tell truth, it's jerks on the internet who lie!

 

[joebar]

Oh, goody. Yet another tonewoods "debate" thread. As if there was still any doubt about it. Not unlike the current climate change "debate". Or the flat earth vs. spherical earth "debate".

(Yes of course you're wrong.)

MM

why are you picking on me?; I didn't start this thread.

 

[GBassNorth]

I don't see poplar or alder making a very good baseball bat I have worked with hickory and northern ash a few times. I absolutely see why those are perfectly suited for the task.

I have three Strats in the planning stages. They will all have the same necks, electronics, and hardware, and same solid color finish. One will be alder, one mahogany, and one maple (I hate finishing ash, so I am leaving it out). They will all be weight matched by chambering or adding weight. So they are within a few ounces of each other.

I know a few guitar players who think they will accurately tell me which is which by playing them, so we shall see.

That's about the closest the TB community has come to a real tone wood test. It's a shame some will be chambered and others not since that in its self could have an impact on the tone.

I've done the test with switched necks. Both identical warmoth builds to the exact same spec except one was maple/maple and one was rosewood/rosewood. I bought the two necks made from different materials because I wasn't sure if I wanted to paint the body black or white and figured the rosewood would look good with white and the maple with black. I was also concerned the 5 string rosewood neck would be too heavy so that was another reason for the maple purchase.

I got the maple neck in the mail first and installed it right away. Loved the sound and the feel was good too. Recorded open notes, chords and some walking bass lines. A week later I got the rosewood neck and noticed it weighed about the same as the maple one. I really liked the sound of the maple neck, but completely assured by all the "wise" folks on TB that there was absoutly no truth to the tone wood claim I swapped the tuners and strings onto the rosewood neck and installed it in my bass. The tonal difference between the two necks was HUGE, so much for all the "wise" people here on TB.

I recorded the same open notes, chords and walking bass lines and played them back to several other bass and guitar players and every person was able to spot the different neck in every recording. I even played them back to my wife (who can't tell a bass from a kick drum in a mix and can rarely pick out the bass line in a given song) and she even got every recording correct, it was that dramatic of a difference. Interestingly some liked the maple neck better and some liked the rosewood neck better. I liked the rosewood neck better so that stayed on the bass.

Anyone that says wood has no impact on tone is saying so only because they've never personally experienced it. I've never tried a body wood tone test so I don't know if it has as much impact as neck woods but after my neck wood experience I would not rule out that there could be a difference in tone with dissimilar body woods.

 

[Blue]

I feel beyond belief the wood is everything.

Here's what convinced me. I have a guitar (a standard 6-string) with such resonate wood that when playing a cord I can feel the vibrations in my left hand. That same guitar near-never needs tuning … around the house I go for weeks - literally - without needing to touch it, and I play it almost every day (it's a plank-electric so it's quiet and I can noodle while watching TV with the wife).

 

[chienmort]

Except that it's not, so, go figure- rosewood is MUCH harder than maple.

Be careful what you call hard and soft. Balsa is a Hard wood but there are not many that are softer!


It ain't how low you can go but what you do when you get there!

 

[mongo2]

Be careful what you call hard and soft. Balsa is a Hard wood but there are not many that are softer!

He's right, check them out on the Janka Wood Hardness Scale.

 

[123321]

Except that it's not, so, go figure- rosewood is MUCH harder than maple.

Rosewood is oily and that accounts for the warmer tone. Goodness, where have some of you cats been?

If you've played a "dead" bass, then you will agree with the wood matters deal... You really need to get a bass, put new strings on it and after about a day- go GD!!

 

[fhm555]

So let's all buy poplar/balsa bass bodies, and save 2-3 pounds per bass.

Just because wood does not have a major effect on the tone of your bass, does not mean you can use just any old wood. It needs to be at least hard enough to allow you to put some serious torque on bridge and neck screws without stripping threads or compressing the wood between the neck plate and neck.

 

[tminus10]

Yes

 

[fhm555]

...I only really choose wood because of the way it looks...

I really like a nice piece of figured bookmatched maple for a top. I also like an ash body with a striking grain, either one piece or thick enough to be able to bookmatch for a mirror image of the grain.

Outside of that as long as the wood is going to provide a solid anchor for the screws, slap some paint on that puppy and it's GTG.

 

[One Drop]

If the wood is properly dried, it is properly dried. The whole thing about it breathing is illogical. If it breaths then it takes moisture in as well as letting it out. If two pieces of wood have the same moisture content, it doesn't matter if they are 2 or 200 years old.

There is more than humidity levels at play. I can imagine a block of wood drying drying out differently in a kiln than slowly air-dried. for example. I'm not asserting any one way is better, just pointing out how the cells in a piece of wood might react.

As to aged wood, the resins harden over time and that might affect timbre when used in an instrument, too.

 

[Hopkins]

That's about the closest the TB community has come to a real tone wood test. It's a shame some will be chambered and others not since that in its self could have an impact on the tone.

I've done the test with switched necks. Both identical warmoth builds to the exact same spec except one was maple/maple and one was rosewood/rosewood. I bought the two necks made from different materials because I wasn't sure if I wanted to paint the body black or white and figured the rosewood would look good with white and the maple with black. I was also concerned the 5 string rosewood neck would be too heavy so that was another reason for the maple purchase.

I got the maple neck in the mail first and installed it right away. Loved the sound and the feel was good too. Recorded open notes, chords and some walking bass lines. A week later I got the rosewood neck and noticed it weighed about the same as the maple one. I really liked the sound of the maple neck, but completely assured by all the "wise" folks on TB that there was absoutly no truth to the tone wood claim I swapped the tuners and strings onto the rosewood neck and installed it in my bass. The tonal difference between the two necks was HUGE, so much for all the "wise" people here on TB.

I recorded the same open notes, chords and walking bass lines and played them back to several other bass and guitar players and every person was able to spot the different neck in every recording. I even played them back to my wife (who can't tell a bass from a kick drum in a mix and can rarely pick out the bass line in a given song) and she even got every recording correct, it was that dramatic of a difference. Interestingly some liked the maple neck better and some liked the rosewood neck better. I liked the rosewood neck better so that stayed on the bass.

Anyone that says wood has no impact on tone is saying so only because they've never personally experienced it. I've never tried a body wood tone test so I don't know if it has as much impact as neck woods but after my neck wood experience I would not rule out that there could be a difference in tone with dissimilar body woods.

I have never said that fretboard wood didn't effect tone, which is why my test is only going to be a body wood test. You are right about chambering, I don't want to add any variables that may or may not effect the overall sound of the guitar. I may instead add some temporary weights to the control cavity of the lighter bodies instead. The myth I am trying to debunk or confirm is that different species of woods impart a specific tone on a solid body instrument. If enough people can tell what body woods the guitars are made of simply by playing them then I can give credibility of the descriptions that some companies give to the tonal aspects of different woods. If they can only hazard a wild guess, (like is my assumption) then I know these descriptions are total nonsense.

 

[Hopkins]

There is more than humidity levels at play. I can imagine a block of wood drying drying out differently in a kiln than slowly air-dried. for example. I'm not asserting any one way is better, just pointing out how the cells in a piece of wood might react.

As to aged wood, the resins harden over time and that might affect timbre when used in an instrument, too.

So you don't think the resin (sap) dries out in a kiln dried piece of wood?

 

[fhm555]

Was looking for info on strats as I'm about to install a set of pups in one and ran across this bit of wisdom from builder Ron Kirn:

He uses nitrocellulose lacquer on his guitars, just like Leo, but argues that paint, among many other things, doesn’t really affect a guitar’s tone. After watching the TV show Cosmos, Ron came up with an analogy:
“If you were to break down the sound of your guitar down to a calendar year—365 days—your talent, your skill, and your ability as a musician carries the tone well into Fall.”
“Then somewhere around September, the amplifier picks up. That pretty much carries you down to the last two weeks of the year. Well, on one of those two weeks nobody does anything, so you’ve got five days there. And in those five days, everything else anybody wants to argue about, be it pickups, paint, wood, cables, capacitors, anything—that all falls into those five days. It’s an insignificant part of the total experience."

Ron believes the perception of your instrument is more important than the instrument itself. If you think you have the guitar of your dreams, then everything will sound better.

 

[GBassNorth]

Was looking for info on strats as I'm about to install a set of pups in one and ran across this bit of wisdom from builder Ron Kirn:

He uses nitrocellulose lacquer on his guitars, just like Leo, but argues that paint, among many other things, doesn’t really affect a guitar’s tone. After watching the TV show Cosmos, Ron came up with an analogy:
“If you were to break down the sound of your guitar down to a calendar year—365 days—your talent, your skill, and your ability as a musician carries the tone well into Fall.”
“Then somewhere around September, the amplifier picks up. That pretty much carries you down to the last two weeks of the year. Well, on one of those two weeks nobody does anything, so you’ve got five days there. And in those five days, everything else anybody wants to argue about, be it pickups, paint, wood, cables, capacitors, anything—that all falls into those five days. It’s an insignificant part of the total experience."

Ron believes the perception of your instrument is more important than the instrument itself. If you think you have the guitar of your dreams, then everything will sound better.

With all due respect, Ron's profound statement is beyond absurd! In essence what he is saying is you can hand a Ric bass and an Epi thunderbird bass to a highly skilled player (let's say Victor Wooten) and both basses will sound EXACTLY alike. Nope ain't gonna happen!

 

[fhm555]

With all due respect, Ron's profound statement is beyond absurd! In essence what he is saying is you can hand a Ric bass and an Epi thunderbird bass to a highly skilled player (let's say Victor Wooten) and both basses will sound EXACTLY alike. Nope ain't gonna happen!

Not what he's saying at all.

He's telling us if you like your bass it will sound good to you. If you don't like your bass it won't sound good to you.

He's telling us that all other things being equal in a single instrument, one component won't make enough difference to make it worth worrying over.

He's telling us it is mostly the player and amp that is responsible for the sound.

If you want to be deliberately obtuse and pick nits, please feel free.

 

[chienmort]

I should not be surprised that this thread has legs but I am.

Anything that is mechanically attached, either directly or indirectly to the strings including the neck, body, bridge, pickups, pickup springs or foam, machine heads, strap, your body all have an effect on the tone as they affect how the strings vibrate.

The vibration of the strings will in turn excite the body (and all other part to some degree) and this will either subtract from or enhance the string vibration at a given note/frequency.

The size/mass of the body are also important (think of a wooden xylophone).


I would be surprised if anyone can identify body wood from a blind test but to assert that it has no bearing on the sound/tone would be hard to prove ( think Balsa vs any other wood, yes I know it is impractical to make a bass from Balsa).

So surely the real issue is which component on a bolt-on necked bass causes the dead area. As this is surely caused by one or more of the components listed above (excluding the strap and your body.




It ain't how low you can go but what you do when you get there!

 

[ben23c]

Either way, it's still pretty damn cool to be able to play a bass made of some unheard of exotic wood. Gives it a lot of character.

 

[JustForSport]

"So surely the real issue is which component on a bolt-on necked bass causes the dead area. As this is surely caused by one or more of the components listed above (excluding the strap and your body."

40% the neck shank, 60% the headstock design.
Lopsided headstock, lopsided tone,
symetrical headstock, symetrical tone (relatively speaking).
Beefier and multi-lam necks are more able to withstand the uneven stresses that indirect string angles/lengths and uneven string tensions contribute.
Shake a straight, bendy stick up and down, then attach an uneven length 'T' to the end and shake it the same way again. Compare.