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Let's talk about balanced tension short scale strings

#21
Tim Skaggs said:
Does the “balanced construction” objective imply that if you DON’T buy a balanced construction set of strings from GHS, you’re going to get a set of strings that are not balanced in tone string-to-string?
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That's always the implied portion of marketing, isn't it? If you say a product is premium, it implies that everything else is not.

There are plenty of sets (many of them ours) that are balanced tonally from string to string, without using a "balanced construction" method. So if you don't buy a set like the Balanced Nickels, you will still find a set out there that's tonally even.

However in the more literal sense, if you don't buy a set with balanced construction, it's likely you won't get a set with both the G/E strings at two wraps.
 
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#22
HelpImaRock said:
Two questions, did you use the RX stainless or nickel? How did they compare in sound to the GHS?
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RX nickel. Pretty similar sound. The GHS maybe had a tad less high end but other than that pretty close to each other. The GHS mellowed to a beautiful flat-like thump after a while (like, a year and a half of heavy gigging)... meanwhile the RX are only a few months old. Maybe the whole "trim the wrap" piece will come back to bite me but so far so good.
 
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#23
Deleted member 271037 said:
I think the main problem with most short scale sets isn't about balanced tension but a LACK of tension. There are far too many floppy short scale string sets out there. A 040-100 short scale set is comparable to 035-095 on a long scale bass. Many string manufacturers only offer short scale strings in even lighter gauges than this! That's unplayable to me, no matter how balanced they are. The Roto 66 short scale set is probably the worst set of strings I've ever played (love the long scale 66s though!). They're too floppy to even TUNE them properly, the E-string can't hold a steady pitch! How they can still sell this junk is beyond me.

The problem is, there's a fine balanced between "too floppy" and "weird overtones and a lack of sustain in higher frets" with short scale strings. Around 045-105 with rounds or flexible flats and 040-100 with stiffer, "old school" flats seems to be the best compromise for me on short scale basses. Any lighter gets too floppy for my taste and heavier becomes useless when playing up the neck on the E-string (and to some extent also the A-string).

This is a compromise though. I would ideally want slightly higher tension as these are actually the same gauges I prefer on long scale basses, where strings of the same gauges will obviously have higher tension. Long scale basses are far more forgiving when it comes to string gauges and a much wider range will work fine (depending on your playing technique and personal taste of course).

There's one short scale set I find completely useless mainly because of it's unbalanced tension though and that's the TI Jazz Flats: 043-056-070-106. The jump in tension between E-A is insane and make them unplayable IMO. I can't think of ANY less balanced sets of bass strings out there. They're shockingly poor. The rarely seen TIJF "Höfner" set is better balanced (but VERY floppy): 043-056-070-096. Bascially the same set but with a 096 E-string instead of 106. It doesn't take much imagination to understand that one of these sets must be EXTREMELY poorly balanced. I love the TIJF long scale set and on SOME basses I can use the "Höfner" short scale set but the standard short scale TIJF set is unplayable IMO.

I wish more string manufacturers would take short scale strings more seriously.
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IMO short scale strings should be offered as lighter gauge. I ran regular gauge Boomers on my short scale for a long time. Then I tried a set of light gauge Boomers 45-95. Instead of mostly thud and clang, I get much better overtones and note definition. Makes sense to me, shorten the length and it can’t vibrate as easily, so a lighter gauge is needed to make up for it. It even sounds great tuned to drop D.
 
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#24
Deleted member 271037 said:
I think the main problem with most short scale sets isn't about balanced tension but a LACK of tension.
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Exactly. That is why GHS BN's are the front runner. Pure nickel has more mass than NPS, therefore more tension for the given diameter. The problem is string structure, which harpsichord makers have dealt with since the early 1600's: too thin, and you get bright tone at the expense of instability; too thick, and you get stability at the expense of good tone due to the string not being flexible enough to vibrate in its overtones. The TI E string has tension, but it is thumpy compared to the rest of the set. Even La Bella E strings are thumpy compared to the rest of the set. For most, that is the price to pay for playing a short scale bass: tone or tension. That is why GHS BN's are the leading short scale string. GHS through @Jon Moody have achieved a great balance between tone and tension that is just hard to beat.
 
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#25
iiipopes said:
Exactly. That is why GHS BN's are the front runner. Pure nickel has more mass than NPS, therefore more tension for the given diameter. The problem is string structure, which harpsichord makers have dealt with since the early 1600's: too thin, and you get bright tone at the expense of instability; too thick, and you get stability at the expense of good tone due to the string not being flexible enough to vibrate in its overtones. The TI E string has tension, but it is thumpy compared to the rest of the set. Even La Bella E strings are thumpy compared to the rest of the set. For most, that is the price to pay for playing a short scale bass: tone or tension. That is why GHS BN's are the leading short scale string. GHS through @Jon Moody have achieved a great balance between tone and tension that is just hard to beat.
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Yes, the BNs are certainly one of the best short scale strings around, possibly THE best roundwounds.

I also like the Pyramid Pure Nickels 45-105. These are slightly stiffer than the BNs (hex core vs round coure I guess) but they still sound amazing. The added stiffness is actually a good thing on a short scale bass for MY playing style. The Pyramids are a bit clanky at first and they take forever to reach their broken-in tone, which can be a bit frustrating. I've also gotten several sets where one of the strings vibrated weirdly and caused fret buzz, typically the D-string. When I find a good set of the Pyramid PNs they NEVER leave the bass. Tonally I actually prefer the Pyramids over the BNs and the Pyramids last forever, like a good set of flats. The GHS BNs are definitely better balanced though.

My only real complaint about the GHS BNs is that they never last very long for me and they don't mellow out in a nice way, they go completely "dead" (at least for MY taste). I tend to prefer mellow, broken-in strings but with GHS BN I always need to replace them regularly. The same goes for GHS Boomers btw. Maybe it's a thing with GHS strings. I also like Boomers (on long scale basses, the short scale sets are either too light or too heavy for me) but their broken-in "sweetspot" seems to last for about 2 weeks before they go completely dead.

Brighter roundwounds has never worked for me on short scale basses. The increased amount of overtones just don't sound right to me with short scale.

I totally agree about the LaBella short scale set. LaBellas are amazing on long scale basses but too thumpy/muddy for my taste on short scale.

My favourite short scale strings in ANY category will always be the Pyramid Golds though. Actually, I think the standard Pyramid Gold short scale set may be the most balanced set of strings I've ever played. Maybe even better balanced than the GHS BNs. The long scale Golds are horribly unbalanced though, both tonally and tension wise.

On short scale basses I actually like D'Addario Chromes too and I absolutely detest them on long scale basses. The long scale sets are too clanky, stiff and unresponsive for my taste. On short scale basses that stiffness and added clarity is actually a good thing IMO.

The selection of great short scale strings is still rather poor though. With through body basses (like Mustangs) it gets even worse. I guess you can use long scale roundwounds in a pinch but I wouldn't do that with most long scale flats.
 
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#26
tlc1976 said:
IMO short scale strings should be offered as lighter gauge. I ran regular gauge Boomers on my short scale for a long time. Then I tried a set of light gauge Boomers 45-95. Instead of mostly thud and clang, I get much better overtones and note definition. Makes sense to me, shorten the length and it can’t vibrate as easily, so a lighter gauge is needed to make up for it. It even sounds great tuned to drop D.
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We must clearly have COMPLETELY different playing styles. 45-95 is WAY too light for me. Tension wise that's comparable to 40-90 on a long scale bass and I suspect this must be too light for most bass players. The Boomer short scale sets are actually very interesting as for MY taste they've completely missed the "sweetspot". One set it too light (buzzing all over the neck unless I raise the action sky high) and the other set is too heavy (poor tone). Just my personal opinion of course, if the light Boomers work for you: Great!:thumbsup:

I totally agree with what you're saying about lighter strings giving a better TONE on short scale basses but that's worthless to me when they're just buzzing all over the neck with my style of playing. Anything lighter than 45-105 (roundwounds) or 40-100 (flats) is more or less unplayable for me. I tend to dig in a bit hard with my plucking hand at times though.

If you like lighter gauge short scale strings you will certainly have a LOT more options to choose from than me.:)
 
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#27
Stringjoy custom set (50-70-90-110) on my basses that wear roundwounds - which is the vast majority of them - short scale of course. Pretty even tension - by my standards at least - and a sound to match. They seem to last for a pretty long time as well, so the initial investment pays off IMO.

I'm not a flats player for the most part and while I generally dislike lighter gauge strings, GHS Precision Flats (45-95) fit my '69 EB-3 like a glove. I'm not sure that I'd use them on a different bass, but with that one they're a match made in heaven when it comes to flatwounds.

Rotos and TIs are equally useless to me as short-scale offerings, be it rounds or flats. Never cared for La Bella flats on my shorties either, although their White Nylons (60-115) are my string of choice when it comes to tapewounds.

My $0.02 only...
 
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#28
ajkula66 said:
Stringjoy custom set (50-70-90-110) on my basses that wear roundwounds - which is the vast majority of them - short scale of course. Pretty even tension - by my standards at least - and a sound to match. They seem to last for a pretty long time as well, so the initial investment pays off IMO.

I'm not a flats player for the most part and while I generally dislike lighter gauge strings, GHS Precision Flats (45-95) fit my '69 EB-3 like a glove. I'm not sure that I'd use them on a different bass, but with that one they're a match made in heaven when it comes to flatwounds.

Rotos and TIs are equally useless to me as short-scale offerings, be it rounds or flats. Never cared for La Bella flats on my shorties either, although their White Nylons (60-115) are my string of choice when it comes to tapewounds.

My $0.02 only...
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How did you get a 110 E? The short scale custom set only goes to 105.
 
#31
Jon Moody said:
That's always the implied portion of marketing, isn't it? If you say a product is premium, it implies that everything else is not.

There are plenty of sets (many of them ours) that are balanced tonally from string to string, without using a "balanced construction" method. So if you don't buy a set like the Balanced Nickels, you will still find a set out there that's tonally even.

However in the more literal sense, if you don't buy a set with balanced construction, it's likely you won't get a set with both the G/E strings at two wraps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting here, Jon.

Does the 32.75" length of the short scale set fit a thru-body strung Mustang?
 
#33
Deleted member 271037 said:
My only real complaint about the GHS BNs is that they never last very long for me and they don't mellow out in a nice way, they go completely "dead" (at least for MY taste).
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I am the opposite. Granted, I don't play the bass often, but one set of strings lasted through two annual week-long tours of Mexico on the coast with sea air, and they mellowed to some of the organic woody goodness that characterize "golden era" Fender flats.
 
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#37
iiipopes said:
I am the opposite. Granted, I don't play the bass often, but one set of strings lasted through two annual week-long tours of Mexico on the coast with sea air, and they mellowed to some of the organic woody goodness that characterize "golden era" Fender flats.
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Strange. I tend to prefer mellow, broken-in strings but with the BNs I feel the need to replace them within 2-3 months of regular use. I normally keep strings for YEARS, even roundwounds. With the BNs I feel like I can't "connect" properly with the attack of my notes on a loud stage once the BNs get past a certain point of aging. I actually still like the overall tone when playing alone but the attack gets lost in the "mix" on stage. This is a huge thing for me as I have a rather busy right hand technique that needs to be NAILED to an even more busy drummer (yeah, it's prog rock...). Maybe the supple feel of the round cores plays a part. I definitely find a typical hex core 45-105 set slightly "tighter" for my style of playing but I like the tone of the BNs so much that I've kept using them for a while now. Come to think of it, they're the only set of bass strings I've ever tried where I actually prefer the tone of brand new strings out of the box.

This is based on the long scale set 44-106 set btw. I've also got BNs on two short scale basses but these are only used for recording and I don't play them nearly as much. For short scale the BNs are certainly one of the best options out there, possibly THE best for roundwounds IMO.
 
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#39
I inquired with Stringjoy regarding their short scale and medium scale sets. Here is their response:

We are currently revamping our bass string selection while expanding our production, and as of now some singles and gauge sets are unavailable. So my apologies about that. I don't have an exact timetable for when we'll bring them back, but hopefully not too much longer. (we left those gauges in the calculator for reference purposes) The heaviest gauge we make for short and medium scale bass strings is the .105 at the moment.

Here are our current length specs:

Bass Strings:
  • All bass strings are 54″ in total length, roughly 49″ of which is wound (slightly less on short and medium scale lengths)
  • Strings .060 and up have a taper at a certain length from the ball-end, depending on the scale. When installed, this taper should sit between the nut and the tuning peg, if you have picked the right scale strings for your bass.
  • Short Scale: 32″
  • Medium Scale: 34.5″
  • Long Scale: 37.1″
  • Extra Long Scale: 38.5″
  • Strings .055 and under are marked “Universal Scale.” Since they have only one wrap they have no taper, so they can be cut to any length to work for any scale bass.
  • Strings .125 and up have a very slight taper at the ball-end to keep them from getting stuck in bridges. It does not affect performance.
 
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