Let's talk about balanced tension short scale strings

[HelpImaRock]

I'm pretty committed to LaBella LTFs as my sound. But I've got a hankerin' to experiment with rounds again so this thread now exists.

As one poster here will tell you, the frontrunner for balanced tension is obviously GHS Balanced Nickels. This thread is to explore what else is out there and available for both top loading and thru body stringing. I could probably make my own balanced set combining Ernie Ball gauges for something like a 45-60-80-105 set, or order custom through Stringjoy, but that would be a last resort.

 

[michael_t]

both top loading and thru bridge stringing...

Sorry, but in my own mind, "top loading" and "thru bridge" are the same thing; it should be "top loading" and "thru-body".

 

[HelpImaRock]

Sorry, but in my own mind, "top loading" and "thru bridge" are the same thing; it should be "top loading" and "thru-body".

Fixed, LOL.

 

[bholder]

I hear "balanced", I think "Kalium" first.

 

[michael_t]

the frontrunner for balanced tension is obviously GHS Balanced Nickels...

The primary objective of the "balanced construction" concept by GHS that the Balanced Nickels are based on is "balanced TONE across all four strings as well as up and down the neck". The fact they're nicely balanced in tension is just a byproduct. They're also designed in a way the "short scale" set would FEEL closer to the "long scale" set of the same gauges.

Are we just talking about "balanced tension" here?

 

[HelpImaRock]

Are we just talking about "balanced tension" here?

Yes. As an example, D'Addario makes balanced tension strings for 34" scale basses. Their set is 45-60-80-107. I'm looking for the same thing for short scale.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I hear "balanced", I think "Kalium" first.

I sent a message through their website a while back and never heard back. Can't order from somewhere that doesn't respond.

 

[michael_t]

Yes. As an example, D'Addario makes balanced tension strings for 34" scale basses. Their set is 45-60-80-107. I'm looking for the same thing for short scale.

"Balanced tension" is relatively easy to obtain as it's just a matter of selecting the right gauges.

Something I've learned as a former "balanced tension enthusiast" is "balanced tension" doesn't always guarantee "balanced tone". Conversely, a set of strings don't necessarily have to be perfectly "tension balanced" to SOUND balanced or even FEEL balanced.

 

[mikewalker]

TI Jazz Rounds Super long scale set are about as balanced tension as you are ever gonna see:

super long scale 36"
NR NOTE MATERIAL NS MM LBS KG
JR36043 G nickel round wound roundcore 0.043 1.09 40.34 18.30
JR36055 D nickel round wound roundcore 0.055 1.40 40.34 18.30
JR36075 A nickel round wound roundcore 0.075 1.91 41.22 18.70
JR36101 E nickel round wound roundcore 0.101 2.57 41.00 18.60

* their short scale set: tensions are not as balanced...

 

[HelpImaRock]

"Balanced tension" is relatively easy to obtain as it's just a matter of selecting the right gauges.

Something I've learned as a former "balanced tension enthusiast" is "balanced tension" doesn't always guarantee "balanced tone". Conversely, a set of strings don't necessarily have to be perfectly "tension balanced" to SOUND balanced or even FEEL balanced.

For me, it's more that the standard sets from Ernie Ball and D'Addario are so unbalanced, you can't help but notice it. Prior to switching to LTFs, I played LaBella RX 45-105. They were decently balanced. However, if I want to put them on my Mustang, I'd have to go for the medium scale set, which is only available in 40-100. That's a little too light. So I'm looking at other options.

 

[bholder]

I sent a message through their website a while back and never heard back. Can't order from somewhere that doesn't respond.

They had trouble keeping up for a while in the past, I think that's over with now - they've been very responsive lately, I just got 2 custom orders, turned around within 3 days. Glad to see them back online...

 

[michael_t]

For me, it's more that the standard sets from Ernie Ball and D'Addario are so unbalanced, you can't help but notice it.

You have a valid point there. I've had the same experience with the ever-so-popular D'A EXL170 (45-65-80-100). A tight D with a loose E! When they came out with their balanced-tension set (EXL170BT), that's when I got hooked on this "balanced tension" thing.

 

[bholder]

"Balanced tension" is relatively easy to obtain as it's just a matter of selecting the right gauges.

Something I've learned as a former "balanced tension enthusiast" is "balanced tension" doesn't always guarantee "balanced tone". Conversely, a set of strings don't necessarily have to be perfectly "tension balanced" to SOUND balanced or even FEEL balanced.

Yup, there's always a huge gulf between subjective aspects like sound and feel, versus objective characteristics like string tension / gauge / composition, etc.. We all experience things a bit differently and with different tastes and definitions of "what's good".

The one thing I'll say balanced tension does seem to do, affecting my personal subjective, is that it does make string bending easier and more consistent across strings. But past that, I find it hard to tell much difference between balanced and unbalanced (of course, tons of other variables involved, I've never done a "scientific" analysis).

 

[alex1fly]

I've had both a balanced tension short scale set (GHS) and a long scale not balanced set (La Bella RXs) on my shortie. No discernable difference in feel, tuning, intonation, anything like that. Two string changes in 4 years, seems fine.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I've had both a balanced tension short scale set (GHS) and a long scale not balanced set (La Bella RXs) on my shortie. No discernable difference in feel, tuning, intonation, anything like that. Two string changes in 4 years, seems fine.

Two questions, did you use the RX stainless or nickel? How did they compare in sound to the GHS?

 

[HelpImaRock]

You have a valid point there. I've had the same experience with the ever-so-popular D'A EXL170 (45-65-80-100). A tight D with a loose E! When they came out with their balanced-tension set (EXL170BT), that's when I got hooked on this "balanced tension" thing.

Yeah, the difference was just too great to not notice. That's also how I started looking elsewhere and got hooked on flats. But experimentation rears its ugly head and here we are.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

The primary objective of the "balanced construction" concept by GHS that the Balanced Nickels are based on is "balanced TONE across all four strings as well as up and down the neck". The fact they're nicely balanced in tension is just a byproduct. They're also designed in a way the "short scale" set would FEEL closer to the "long scale" set of the same gauges.

Are we just talking about "balanced tension" here?

Does the “balanced construction” objective imply that if you DON’T buy a balanced construction set of strings from GHS, you’re going to get a set of strings that are not balanced in tone string-to-string?

 

[michael_t]

Does the “balanced construction” objective imply that if you DON’T buy a balanced construction set of strings from GHS, you’re going to get a set of strings that are not balanced in tone string-to-string?

Not necessarily... If I can be honest with you, I personally think the real-life benefit of this "balanced construction" concept is more subtle than tangible. There are plenty of options out there for string sets that are balanced enough for practical purposes both in terms of tone and feel without the "balanced construction" idea.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I think the main problem with most short scale sets isn't about balanced tension but a LACK of tension. There are far too many floppy short scale string sets out there. A 040-100 short scale set is comparable to 035-095 on a long scale bass. Many string manufacturers only offer short scale strings in even lighter gauges than this! That's unplayable to me, no matter how balanced they are. The Roto 66 short scale set is probably the worst set of strings I've ever played (love the long scale 66s though!). They're too floppy to even TUNE them properly, the E-string can't hold a steady pitch! How they can still sell this junk is beyond me.

The problem is, there's a fine balanced between "too floppy" and "weird overtones and a lack of sustain in higher frets" with short scale strings. Around 045-105 with rounds or flexible flats and 040-100 with stiffer, "old school" flats seems to be the best compromise for me on short scale basses. Any lighter gets too floppy for my taste and heavier becomes useless when playing up the neck on the E-string (and to some extent also the A-string).

This is a compromise though. I would ideally want slightly higher tension as these are actually the same gauges I prefer on long scale basses, where strings of the same gauges will obviously have higher tension. Long scale basses are far more forgiving when it comes to string gauges and a much wider range will work fine (depending on your playing technique and personal taste of course).

There's one short scale set I find completely useless mainly because of it's unbalanced tension though and that's the TI Jazz Flats: 043-056-070-106. The jump in tension between E-A is insane and make them unplayable IMO. I can't think of ANY less balanced sets of bass strings out there. They're shockingly poor. The rarely seen TIJF "Höfner" set is better balanced (but VERY floppy): 043-056-070-096. Bascially the same set but with a 096 E-string instead of 106. It doesn't take much imagination to understand that one of these sets must be EXTREMELY poorly balanced. I love the TIJF long scale set and on SOME basses I can use the "Höfner" short scale set but the standard short scale TIJF set is unplayable IMO.

I wish more string manufacturers would take short scale strings more seriously.

 

[Bodeeni]

Kind of funny. I am a huge fan of the Chrome long scale EBC 84 flats 40,60,80,100 on my standard scale basses. They currently call these custom light but they used to be called the "balance tension" set. On my short scale I use the standard short scale lights 45-100 which I think are the only short chromes they offer.
On the long scale I very much notice and do not like the stiffer d and g on the standard light gauge 45,65,80,100. I do not find them balanced in tension compared to the 40-100. On the shorty I guess I just dealt since that is all they got and never think about it. Probably weird...I do not seem to have any of the same tension issues with Labellas or TIs, but it does bug me on the Chrome long scale.