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Light Bulb in recessed Ceiling Mount keeps blowing out, Socket replacement?

My Day Job is with Seattle Lighting, I sell residential and commercial fixtures and have about 13 years on the job.
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Keep us posted on what you find.

BTW, you can replace that Incandescent with any number of great choices, including a 39watt Par30 Halogen or a bunch of LEDs.


Apologies for the hijack, but it could be closely related.

I work in a somewhat sizable commercial building with highly variable levels of use during the week. We have a bunch of fixtures very similar to the ones you linked to - some are virtually identical cans and some are a completely cylindrical can with no "taper" at the socket end. These are in the new part of the building, which has been up and running for eight months, and they are on for no more than 20 hours a week.

A quick mental count gives me a total of 60 or 64 fixtures. We use the 39PAR20 halogen lamps, and in eight months we've lost well over a dozen. 8 months x 4.2 weeks in a month x 20 hours a week = 672 hours. The originals are Philips, rated 1100 hours, and we're replacing with Satco. Haven't lost any Satcos yet, but this seems like a pretty short lifespan on the originals.

Would you agree, or do you think this is within the range of reasonableness? I'm very interested in what happens with the OP, as I'm kind of wondering if we have a heat issue as well. Maybe I should start pricing LEDs?


***edited because added an extra word word.
 
Apologies for the hijack, but it could be closely related.

I work in a somewhat sizable commercial building with highly variable levels of use during the week. We have a bunch of fixtures very similar to the ones you linked to - some are virtually identical cans and some are a completely cylindrical can with no "taper" at the socket end. These are in the new part of the building, which has been up and running for eight months, and they are on for no more than 20 hours a week.

A quick mental count gives me a total of 60 or 64 fixtures. We use the 39PAR20 halogen lamps, and in eight months we've lost well over a dozen. 8 months x 4.2 weeks in a month x 20 hours a week = 672 hours. The originals are Philips, rated 1100 hours, and we're replacing with Satco. Haven't lost any Satcos yet, but this seems like a pretty short lifespan on the originals.

Would you agree, or do you think this is within the range of reasonableness? I'm very interested in what happens with the OP, as I'm kind of wondering if we have a heat issue as well. Maybe I should start pricing LEDs?


***edited because added an extra word word.
The biggest cause of recessed can bulb failure is the metal from which the sockets are made. Since switching from copper to aluminum several decades ago, the design of lighting, as well as improved manufacturing techniques, has also evolved over that time. With the advent of smaller enclosed housings, that required changing the position of the bulb (from horizontal to vertical) the extra heat dissipating through the contacts was not taken sufficiently into account. This results in tempering of the now aluminum contacts, which are also thinner, resulting in insufficient pressure to the base of the bulb. The lesser pressure results in more resistance and causes the bulb to fail. LEDS can significantly lower the heat that is transmitted to the socket.

Most incandescent reflector bulbs are rated at around 800 hours and you can bet money that your electrical contractor that installed the bulbs initially used the least expensive one they could find, but with the added heat build up involved in an enclosed space, reduced bulb life is no surprise. Rated life is done in open space where heat is not a problem, Ratings tests are not done under real world conditions.
 
Apologies for the hijack, but it could be closely related.

I work in a somewhat sizable commercial building with highly variable levels of use during the week. We have a bunch of fixtures very similar to the ones you linked to - some are virtually identical cans and some are a completely cylindrical can with no "taper" at the socket end. These are in the new part of the building, which has been up and running for eight months, and they are on for no more than 20 hours a week.

A quick mental count gives me a total of 60 or 64 fixtures. We use the 39PAR20 halogen lamps, and in eight months we've lost well over a dozen. 8 months x 4.2 weeks in a month x 20 hours a week = 672 hours. The originals are Philips, rated 1100 hours, and we're replacing with Satco. Haven't lost any Satcos yet, but this seems like a pretty short lifespan on the originals.

Would you agree, or do you think this is within the range of reasonableness? I'm very interested in what happens with the OP, as I'm kind of wondering if we have a heat issue as well. Maybe I should start pricing LEDs?


***edited because added an extra word word.


1100 is the average rated life, what that means is: "the length of time (in hours) required for half of the lamps in a large test group to fail. So you can have a group of 1000 lamps and 500 of them will have failed at (or before) the rated life", some will continue to operate well past the rated life.
A logical question would be what causes this wide swing?
Halogen lamps have a tungsten filament similar in structure to an incandescent type enclosed in a small glass envelope, the smaller amount of airspace and halogen gas at 7-8ATM cause the filament to reach a much higher temperature than incandescent types, thus giving a brighter, whiter light - the 39watt PAR Lamp is a redesigned, more efficient variation that has come into use in 2013 as part of a Federal Mandate. The halogen gas (iodine or bromine) and the tungsten filament when in operation for at least 20 minutes start what is called the "halogen cycle" - this is when small particles of the tungsten will come off of the filament and become airborne within the glass envelope and eventually reattach to the filament (tho not at the same place they left from) this typically helps the lamp last much longer than incandescent types which have a similar characteristic except that their filament particles do not reattach. The halogen cycle is random so the filament structure my weaken continually at one location and cause a premature failure - This usually happens when the lamp is first turned on and receives the full 120 volts as a jolt to the filament.
Generally I've heard Phillips makes a good lamp (we use Sylvania and Satco ) Satco cost less and often don't have equivalent output to the better lamps.
Your application would be best served with some good quality LEDs, they will amortize quickly (maintenance $$$ and a wattage reduction) in your building. When it comes to selecting what's right, remember that you get what you pay for, good LEDS should equal or surpass halogens in lumen output, offer some beam spread choices, have a 50K rated life, be dimmable, offer some choices on color temperature 2700-3500K, 3000k is considered "neutral", and a Color Rendering Index number of 85 or above. I like Sylvania, and Soraa LEDs as they offer all of these things, an $8.00 special from Walmart will not - it's best to think of the LED market as a lot of Snake Oil, buyer beware! Depending on the housing (Can) and it's physical dimensions it's often advisable to use a "short neck" halogen or LED so it regresses and becomes less visible - works great with a Specular or Alzak trim piece to get rid of the glare normally associated with recess cans.
 
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Thanks, sissy kathy and TBird. I've done a small bit of research, and so far have yet to come up with the right combination of warm color temperature and wide(r) beam, but there must be something out there. I appreciate the warning about the low-cost LEDs... there is such a spread between the name brands and the cheap stuff that I wonder what's up.
 
When I have an unusual price spread across many items I usually find that the cheaper ones are cutting quality to get the price point, and the most expensive ones are mostly just price gouging. I eliminate the top and bottom 25% and just limit my selection to the middle 50%. Haven't been disappointed yet in 30+ years of using this method. Obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule, just look at some of the low end basses available to show the fault of this logic.
 
TBird1958, got up into the can this morning after a quickset concrete replacement of 4x4 holding mailbox.

Pics below indicate no apparent scorching or accessible heat switch. Replaced bulb with incandescent, only thing on hand and it works.

Still hot as Hades in LA so we'll see how long it lasts.

The last picture is from the adjacent 6 fixture, no dimmer circuit, and it is dimpled from heat buildup?

Paint sprayed over labeling inside can. Looks like they are wired in series.

Thanks for your advice in advance. Ain't TB great?
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412701621.821749.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412701645.921004.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412701684.822041.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412701701.065941.jpg
 
There's nothing unusual with any of those components - even the slight dimple on the BR lamp, I see that kind of stuff countless times everyday - the socket looks quite normal. I'd note the tabs that pinch together to release it from the mounting plate, it's difficult to find a replacement socket with the tabs already riveted on like that, again, it looks normal. That 65watt BR (Incandescent) isn't creating a heat issue, all the components you're showing are well within safe guidelines too.
The issue may actually just be the lamps you're using, quality may be can be all over the board and losing one or more before some of the others may not be all that unusual here.
 
Yeah, after looking around at the pieces didn't think that anything looked suspicious.

Bought a $20 LED surely overpriced at local hardware but I wanted to try one.

Made in China was stamped on both bulbs of the dead bulbs.

Thanks again TBird
 
Yeah, after looking around at the pieces didn't think that anything looked suspicious.

Bought a $20 LED surely overpriced at local hardware but I wanted to try one.

Made in China was stamped on both bulbs of the dead bulbs.

Thanks again TBird

The lamp was most likely the weak link in the chain, the rest of that stuff is pretty robust, most cans are rated conservatively, that 65watt BR isn't a good lamp.
 
Sounds like a rating issue. I had the same problem in my family room bulbs were lasting only a couple of weeks after the original bulb were replaces ( which lasted a long time) Went online and discovered the bulbs and the cans have ratings and the replacement bulbs were too high for the cans bought the bulbs which had the rating suggested in the inside of the can and no more issues :)