Line 6 HX Effects

[been_effected]

I believe you are correct. I would like to know why though. Even though I personally don't usually (although sometimes!!!) need amp/cab modeling, it would be great if @Digital Igloo could stop by and update us.

I think the problem I have is that users don't always fit into neat little categories. So is somebody a pedalboard person or an amp person? Depends on which day. Does that mean I have to buy two different almost-identical products? Why would a user want options left out? It's not like they take up room. If on the other hand it's a cost thing, I think most of us who want amps and cabs would be willing to pay for the extra models.

This kind of thing is one reason why a strict hierarchy of products is easier to deal with: A > B > C > D. This ecosystem doesn't have a clear relationship between Stomp and Effects. That's how it appears to me anyway.

If I was to take a complete punt at it, and I'm not an engineer here so who knows, I'd say that perhaps they've done it this way from an engineering perspective because of the amount of DSP power available in the HXFX. From my understanding, the HXFX and Stomp each have 1 DSP chip, as opposed to the 2 chips in the LT and full Helix. The HXFX has 9 blocks and more complex routing capabilities, as opposed to the Stomp which has 6. Perhaps another reason not to put amp/cabs in the HXFX is because of how quickly you'd run into the limits of the DSP, and the negative impact therefore on the full capabilities of the HXFX.

I mean, what's worse? Users complaining that a particular product offering doesn't contain something they want? In which case, they buy a different offering? (or from what I've been reading with some guys, they're buying both!)
Or users buying a product on the premise it can do something, only to find that due to hardware limits, it can't do what they want it to do? If I was the manufacturer, from a product returns perspective, I know which one I'd pick...

 

[gumtown]

I guess you could look at it like, if the HX FX had amp modelling, the 1 amp block would use up 3 effects blocks.

Would quite neat if the user was able to choose a firmware configuration for there needs, with or without amp/cab modelling, exchanged for extra effects across the whole Helix/HX range.

 

[gregmon79]

I just deleted my previous post. No need for me to add to the negativity.

With the amount of product development that would have gone into the entire Helix range, and the amount of forward planning required to bring a product to market like the Stomp, this is clearly planned by Line 6.

As much as people may want amp/cab sims, they've made pretty clear it's not happening.

I believe you are correct. I would like to know why though. Even though I personally don't usually (although sometimes!!!) need amp/cab modeling, it would be great if @Digital Igloo could stop by and update us.

I think the problem I have is that users don't always fit into neat little categories. So is somebody a pedalboard person or an amp person? Depends on which day. Does that mean I have to buy two different almost-identical products? Why would a user want options left out? It's not like they take up room. If on the other hand it's a cost thing, I think most of us who want amps and cabs would be willing to pay for the extra models.

This kind of thing is one reason why a strict hierarchy of products is easier to deal with: A > B > C > D. This ecosystem doesn't have a clear relationship between Stomp and Effects. That's how it appears to me anyway.

Very well put smeet. I would be more than happy to pay some extra cash for a update patch that added amps and cabs. If the HX could take it considering the DSP handling. But that makes a lot of sense to me on the business side AND the side they may be taking to try and keep each Helix products in their own niches.

 

[gregmon79]

I also don't doubt there's a method to their madness. I think they have great teams of people over there that are doing great things in the digital realm. It's amazing really. And I am not trying to take away from that. But you all know where I stand on it. If it's possible, they should do it. If it's not, it's not. I really don't care what the product was "designed for". I use a ton of products in ways that they weren't designed for. Effects being a huge example. I look it at as more tonal tools to use to sculpt with. If I had those sims in my HX, I could very well ditch most my board like I've kinda been wanting to for the last year and just use the HX with a whammy and a wah.

With all that said, I will be VERY surprised and happy if they were added. But I'm not holding my breathe. I am looking forward to seeing what is in store with future updates though!

 

[Jantelagen]

I'd deleted that after I posted because I was hesitant, but reposting so people know what you replied to.

I was researching the HXStomp threads on The Gear Page and saw where that Digital Igloo person answered the amp/cab sims question with:
"HX Effects was designed to be the centerpiece of amp and pedalboard rigs, and a spiritual successor to M9 and M13. It's not going to get amps and cabs. Not going to dig deeper here, but rest assured, there's method to our madness."
I truly hate to speculate, but that last bit got me curious. Future compatibility or add-on for the HX or something across Helix devices maybe?

Link for reference: Invalid Link Removed

 

[gregmon79]

I'd deleted that after I posted because I was hesitant, but reposting so people know what you replied to.

I was researching the HXStomp threads on The Gear Page and saw where that Digital Igloo person answered the amp/cab sims question with:
"HX Effects was designed to be the centerpiece of amp and pedalboard rigs, and a spiritual successor to M9 and M13. It's not going to get amps and cabs. Not going to dig deeper here, but rest assured, there's method to our madness."
I truly hate to speculate, but that last bit got me curious. Future compatibility or add-on for the HX or something across Helix devices maybe?

Link for reference: Invalid Link Removed

It is what it is. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just feel the need to stress my feelings on it. Sorry if I'm annoying about it. I'll try not to keep posting about it. But I don't see why we can't have a discussion about it. As long as we stay civil and respectful with one another.

 

[Jantelagen]

It is what it is. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just feel the need to stress my feelings on it. Sorry if I'm annoying about it. I'll try not to keep posting about it. But I don't see why we can't have a discussion about it. As long as we stay civil and respectful with one another.

That's part of why I checking other threads to see how others were approaching the subject. I'm in different boat than some of you guys. I moved to the LT but I miss the HX and want to move back. To get some of HX features like the scribble strips, size, etc I would have to move up to the Floor which is beast of a board. The HX is awesome and only missing amp/cab modeling capability imho. Loading IRs is a great feature and just wish it could load amps, so to speak. Or be able to use amp/cabs in HX Edit, import them somehow, or w/Native or whatever. It really could be nothing and just me hoping but when I'd seen what Digital Igloo said I thought maybe there's something up their sleeve or still way to add on without changing the HX's hardware. Guess we'll see

 

[MascisMan]

Having the amps in HX would be nice but I'm more jealous of the Stomp because of the integrated headphone amp.

I have actually been shopping for a new DI to replace my MXR M81 with a unit that has a headphone amp built in (Olympic, Omnicab, and Le Bass are my top 3) to use in conjunction with the HX.

With the stomp though, I can keep my MXR M81 (or get rid of it and change the Inst out to Line out on the Stomp and use a TRS to XLR) and have a headphone amp. On top of all of this, I free up board space (going from HX to Stomp and possibly eliminating the M81).

That is more important to me than the amp models, which are a cherry on top moving to the Stomp as well (for my situation).

 

[gregmon79]

Having the amps in HX would be nice but I'm more jealous of the Stomp because of the integrated headphone amp.

I have actually been shopping for a new DI to replace my MXR M81 with a unit that has a headphone amp built in (Olympic, Omnicab, and Le Bass are my top 3) to use in conjunction with the HX.

With the stomp though, I can keep my MXR M81 (or get rid of it and change the Inst out to Line out on the Stomp and use a TRS to XLR) and have a headphone amp. On top of all of this, I free up board space (going from HX to Stomp and possibly eliminating the M81).

That is more important to me than the amp models, which are a cherry on top moving to the Stomp as well (for my situation).

Yeah I have to admit the other features that are on the Stomp that I'm jealous about aside from the amps and cabs are the headphone out and interface on the Stomp. Heck, some of those interfaces cost a couple hundred if you want a really nice one. The Stomp has that and so much more for a few hundred more.

The only way I would be able to get away with using a Stomp on my board though is if I still had the HX. I found myself filling up patches of 9 blocks with no issues whatsoever. Add amps and cabs, I'd run out of run room hella fast. Since the Stomp can only have 6 at at time, I would be in trouble with just it and nothing else. I could make it work but it would end up being a little limiting I think in that regard for me. To this day, it still amazes me how fast I can fill a patch up in the HX when I build them. I didn't think that would ever be an issue. And it's not really.

 

[gregmon79]

Hey all, al back to the effects!! Who’s got a good swell patch. I’m trying to get a nice triggered note swell for an intro to a new song. Anyone got one? Or a good starting point??

I’m kinda struggling with the auto swell. But the actual auto swell delay block works better than the actual auto swell in the dynamics category.

 

[been_effected]

Yeah I have to admit the other features that are on the Stomp that I'm jealous about aside from the amps and cabs are the headphone out and interface on the Stomp. Heck, some of those interfaces cost a couple hundred if you want a really nice one. The Stomp has that and so much more for a few hundred more.

The only way I would be able to get away with using a Stomp on my board though is if I still had the HX. I found myself filling up patches of 9 blocks with no issues whatsoever. Add amps and cabs, I'd run out of run room hella fast. Since the Stomp can only have 6 at at time, I would be in trouble with just it and nothing else. I could make it work but it would end up being a little limiting I think in that regard for me. To this day, it still amazes me how fast I can fill a patch up in the HX when I build them. I didn't think that would ever be an issue. And it's not really.

It amazes me that you fill your patches so quickly, I feel like I'm doing something wrong XD
Should share some patches with me sometime to see where your creative headspace goes.

Also, on a completely different topic (and I know you'll appreciate this), I finally have an MBD-1 on it's way to me from another guy in Australia. Can't freaking wait.

 

[Plastalmonus]

It amazes me that you fill your patches so quickly, I feel like I'm doing something wrong XD
Should share some patches with me sometime to see where your creative headspace goes.

Also, on a completely different topic (and I know you'll appreciate this), I finally have an MBD-1 on it's way to me from another guy in Australia. Can't freaking wait.

Was it from OzBass? If so then you're the guy who beat me to it!!

 

[been_effected]

Was it from OzBass? If so then you're the guy who beat me to it!!

From Ben? Haha, suckaaaa
Yeah, it was me.

 

[Plastalmonus]

From Ben? Haha, suckaaaa
Yeah, it was me.

Haha yeah that was it. The one day I don't go looking and he posts that.

 

[gregmon79]

It amazes me that you fill your patches so quickly, I feel like I'm doing something wrong XD
Should share some patches with me sometime to see where your creative headspace goes.

Also, on a completely different topic (and I know you'll appreciate this), I finally have an MBD-1 on it's way to me from another guy in Australia. Can't freaking wait.

It's more of a problem for me haha I still have yet to sit down with the HX and map. I always end up building patches like it's going to be my board. Which it's more than half of it if you think about it. I use the HX for delay, mod, reverb, some dirt, trem, FX loops, synths sometimes, pretty much any other effect besides preamp, OD, octave and pitchshifting and wah. Everything else is covered by the HX. But then in this new band I'm in, I don't use barely any of that. It's mostly just OD and some chorus every now and again. But we are starting to write more with me in the band so that's going to change.

So for me, that's the "problem", I try to map each patch for specific songs but I always seem to end up just building different patches of the things I don't have single stomps for. I'm like ADHD about my HX. I can't seem to zero in and focus on patch making for specific songs which is really what I want to do. Like name the patch the title of said song and build each one around that. Seems easy enough right?! I think some of that has to do with when I got the HX. My old band was on it's last leg going out and then it petered out. I was off for a while. Life changes ensued. Joined a new band where I was feeling out my role. Now that I've settled a little and I'm more solid in this new band, I think it's time to get some solid patches made.

And hell yes on the MBD score! That pedal just rules. Just tip, if at first you're not gelling with it, give it time, learn the controls. Get it in with a band. If at that point you still aren't feeling it, then consider flipping it or whatever. The controls and how they interact with one another are very different than most drive pedal IME. And they can be very subtle at times too. It's like your ear sorta needs to get accustomed to what it's doing. But I bet you'll like it. Let us know! And I'm always game for patch building exercises and sharing. Me and @fivestringgecko have done some sharing in the past. It's a lot of fun to see what someone else comes up with and then just have it spit on to your HX.

 

[bassophile]

It's more of a problem for me haha I still have yet to sit down with the HX and map. I always end up building patches like it's going to be my board. Which it's more than half of it if you think about it. I use the HX for delay, mod, reverb, some dirt, trem, FX loops, synths sometimes, pretty much any other effect besides preamp, OD, octave and pitchshifting and wah. Everything else is covered by the HX. But then in this new band I'm in, I don't use barely any of that. It's mostly just OD and some chorus every now and again. But we are starting to write more with me in the band so that's going to change.

So for me, that's the "problem", I try to map each patch for specific songs but I always seem to end up just building different patches of the things I don't have single stomps for. I'm like ADHD about my HX. I can't seem to zero in and focus on patch making for specific songs which is really what I want to do. Like name the patch the title of said song and build each one around that. Seems easy enough right?! I think some of that has to do with when I got the HX. My old band was on it's last leg going out and then it petered out. I was off for a while. Life changes ensued. Joined a new band where I was feeling out my role. Now that I've settled a little and I'm more solid in this new band, I think it's time to get some solid patches made.

And hell yes on the MBD score! That pedal just rules. Just tip, if at first you're not gelling with it, give it time, learn the controls. Get it in with a band. If at that point you still aren't feeling it, then consider flipping it or whatever. The controls and how they interact with one another are very different than most drive pedal IME. And they can be very subtle at times too. It's like your ear sorta needs to get accustomed to what it's doing. But I bet you'll like it. Let us know! And I'm always game for patch building exercises and sharing. Me and @fivestringgecko have done some sharing in the past. It's a lot of fun to see what someone else comes up with and then just have it spit on to your HX.

If you want to EHX Bassballs kind of sound try to experiment with Autofilter going intro Bit Crusher. Its important to set Low Pass on Autofilter and that sample rate on Bit Crusher goes about 2-3 khz.

 

[smeet]

Sounds like Some you people are making tons of patches!

I’ve gone the opposite way so far, just fine-tuning one patch, hoping it will be versatile enough to do almost everything. I guess I’m taking to heart the analogy of HX as a pedalboard. I’ll probably keep the strategy of refining one main patch that I can learn and play like an instrument, and add a couple of other special purpose ones.

In the next week I’ll be adding in a Cali76 CB compressor, and an SA Aftershock. I can’t wait to incorporate those, and maybe eventually a Future Impact.

 

[gregmon79]

If you want to EHX Bassballs kind of sound try to experiment with Autofilter going intro Bit Crusher. Its important to set Low Pass on Autofilter and that sample rate on Bit Crusher goes about 2-3 khz.

I would be hard pressed to accept anyone’s model of a bass balls on the HX. That is one tough effect to model. It’s very unique and very all its own. If anyone actually came up with a convincing bass balls model, I’d be VERY impressed. Me and @fivestringgecko tried…..

Sounds like Some you people are making tons of patches!

I’ve gone the opposite way so far, just fine-tuning one patch, hoping it will be versatile enough to do almost everything. I guess I’m taking to heart the analogy of HX as a pedalboard. I’ll probably keep the strategy of refining one main patch that I can learn and play like an instrument, and add a couple of other special purpose ones.

In the next week I’ll be adding in a Cali76 CB compressor, and an SA Aftershock. I can’t wait to incorporate those, and maybe eventually a Future Impact.

Yeah I bet your patches rule smeet. I have made a ton and ripped a ton from the L6 Custom Tone site. I have some really good sounds dialed in, but I know I could do better.


I would start a thread but being as all the Custom Tones are specific to each model, I’ll put it here. Any one of you who cares to, let us know when you post to the Custom Tone website and let us know your screen name and the patch’s name. Then we can just go and rip it off the site and spit it into our own HX. I have a couple up there myself as does Diegobass I believe.

 

[Diegombass]

It works great, very fat sound.
To recreate the OC2 you can use the Pitch Ring Mod and the Bass Octaver in path B. Inverting polarity it's even better.

ATTENTION Guys, little digression towards octaver sounds. Today I put OC2 in fx loop and started comparing it to Bass Octaver. Every time I hear OC2 I notice that very musical blend between octave and dry which is so dense and consistent in low mid range. So I came to idea of phase and asked why I don't hear such blend coherence with Bass Octaver (BO).

So, first I made parallel A/B path with two BOs in each path. On BO/A I left only dry signal, and on BO/B only octave signal. Then entered mixer and put the B polarity switch to INVERT.....Baaaaaam! IMO much better blending occured. Very musical and OC2 like, even better in some Tone variations. Totally different octaver than BO. BO sounds as two instruments octave apart, and this option sounds as one harmonically richer sound. Not saying it is better sounding, depending on application each sound can be good option.

In controll assignment I put both BO bypass and B level atennuation to the same FS.

Then I figured out in order to save blocks I put empty block in path A. It's still good and musical just a little different due to slight latency in path B. So there is still B level switchoff and BO/B bypass assigned to the same FS ( which is redundant I know.)

Now regular BO sounds to me to "separated" because of obvious comb filtering.

@Digital Igloo If there is no serious OC2 project going on in your labs,
I think you should consider putting phase invert switch to octave sound of Bass Octaver in future updates.

Waiting for your opinions and good luck.

Cheers.

 

[fivestringgecko]

If you want to EHX Bassballs kind of sound try to experiment with Autofilter going intro Bit Crusher. Its important to set Low Pass on Autofilter and that sample rate on Bit Crusher goes about 2-3 khz.

I would be hard pressed to accept anyone’s model of a bass balls on the HX. That is one tough effect to model. It’s very unique and very all its own. If anyone actually came up with a convincing bass balls model, I’d be VERY impressed. Me and @fivestringgecko tried…

I remember those late night brainstorming sessions we had about that, but there's just something about the twin filters in a BassBalls that neither of us could ever nail down with the HX models. We also gave a valiant effort at an OC2 emulation as well, when the whole octaver comparison discussion happened. My patch ended up with 5 blocks before I shelved the idea for later. I also tried to get the Pigtronix Bass Envelope Phaser sound, but couldn't ever get any of them where I wanted them. Which is why I still alternate the BassBalls/Funk Face or BEP on board, along with the Octabvre. I know that's not an actual OC2, but I like having the dedicated switch for -1 octave only.

5sg.