Line 6 HX Effects

[BunchyMutt]

Before I give you a long reply - how radical do you want me to go with this?

I mean, I can answer the question you've asked around MIDI control, but there's a very real potential here that I could recommend ripping chunks out of your setup purely because the HXFX can do it instead, with the right wiring diagram. Are you comfortable with that?

For example - the early chain tone shaping of the MS-60B - flesh this out for me.

haha awesome. I'm totally on board. To save you time, I'm pretty attached to my main dirt setup with the ghost trap and three other pedals. Stuff that can be streamlined by the HX though, like the eq, noise suppression, etc. I could see.

Edit - I don't know if I answered your question about the MS-60B. If not - it's okay. The single pedal format is amazing and the utility of it is convenient. It's really just super light compression to sort of even out string-to-string balance on my 6 string bass. Then the ZNR is very light as well, just helps with the staccato metal music I play. Then a model of a tube screamer that I have blended in at around 12%, so not a lot. Then a two band parametric eq boosting 80Hz and 1.6kHz.

 

[BunchyMutt]

Let me know if I've got this right so far:

View attachment 3192647

except for an expression pedal missing for the HX and Waifu at the least, HX, Waifu, and Drolo at the most, that's great!

I cannot believe you didn't want to just keep my version.

What program did you use for the decision/brain tree?

 

[been_effected]

except for an expression pedal missing for the HX and Waifu at the least, HX, Waifu, and Drolo at the most, that's great!

I cannot believe you didn't want to just keep my version.

What program did you use for the decision/brain tree?

draw.io - it's free too.

 

[been_effected]

haha awesome. I'm totally on board. To save you time, I'm pretty attached to my main dirt setup with the ghost trap and three other pedals. Stuff that can be streamlined by the HX though, like the eq, noise suppression, etc. I could see.

Edit - I don't know if I answered your question about the MS-60B. If not - it's okay. The single pedal format is amazing and the utility of it is convenient. It's really just super light compression to sort of even out string-to-string balance on my 6 string bass. Then the ZNR is very light as well, just helps with the staccato metal music I play. Then a model of a tube screamer that I have blended in at around 12%, so not a lot. Then a two band parametric eq boosting 80Hz and 1.6kHz.

Yeah that's cool, I wasn't planning on changing your main dirt setup - they pretty well all do things that the HX could sorta/kinda/maybe/not really do.

In fact, part of me does wonder if that ML-5 I linked to you would be a better fit for what you're trying to do. I'm loathe to recommend purchasing another part though

Do you need the ability to reorder your dirt chain? eg: move the Defizzerator in front of the Loop Switcher with the Broughton and Mosky?

 

[been_effected]

And you mentioned you use the B3N for amp/cab emulation - is there a reason it's in loop 3 rather than in loop 5 (ie: naturally at the end of your chain, rather than forcing reordering of effects)

 

[been_effected]

OK - here's a first revision. Hold your breath because...we're going to 4CM your HXFX and ES-5:

Conceptually, the HXFX controls everything here.

The HXFX can send MIDI control changes to the ES-5, which will allow you to turn loops on and off, recall patches (which will allow you to save certain pathing configurations, if you want to reorganise the pedals in your loops), as well as allowing you to effectively send and reinsert pedals almost anywhere in your "virtual" chain inside the HXFX.

I've dropped the MS-60B and to be honest we might well be able to drop the B3N or feed it separately (using, say, the Right output on your HXFX) rather than putting it in Loop 3 behind the VMTU.

We'll consume 4 of the total 9 blocks available in the HXFX by dropping the MS-60B and having the components you mentioned broken out into their own blocks. You'll need to allow for a minimum of 2 blocks, maximum of 4 blocks for the Effects send and returns in the HXFX. 2 if you have the loop inserted at the same point, and 4 if you need to split the location.

Depending on what you want the HXFX to do, you may find you can drop the EQ pedal and have an EQ block at the end of your chain.

Also, Loop 1 on the ES-5 will ALWAYS need to be on, or this won't work. You might find conceptually it's a better idea to make the insert on Loop 5 instead.

I *think* this will work. Purely conceptual signal chain, and I have to thank my friend Brenton for teaching me far too much about signal pathing when he was nutting out how he wanted his ES-8 to work with his HXFX. Gave me a lot of inspiration and I learned a lot more about 4CM. Never done it myself, but I can see the benefit if you're a true tone tweaker

 

[been_effected]

Also, one more thing.

If you don't need to reorder your effects, the Morningstar ML-5 could replace your ES-5 and your Looper, and you could do away with 4CM.

In that case, I'd simply put the ML-5 into Loop 1 on the HXFX, and then on the ML-5:
Loop 1 - Mosky Black Rat
Loop 2 - Broughton Ghost Trap
Loop 3 - Darkglass VMTU
Loop 4 - Broughton HPF/LPF chain
Loop 5 - DIGDUGDIY chain

Can you tell it was a slow day today?
Sorry for the nerd dump guys - back to HX Effects chat now.

 

[Plastalmonus]

We need the TalkBass version of Reddit Gold for the awesome work that @been_effected has just put together.

 

[Tandark]

@been_effected

 

[BunchyMutt]

We need the TalkBass version of Reddit Gold for the awesome work that @been_effected has just put together.

@been_effected
View attachment 3192705

Agreed. I'm wondering if we should contact a mod to sticky this portion of the thread or set it apart somehow. So much good stuff here

 

[BunchyMutt]

Yeah that's cool, I wasn't planning on changing your main dirt setup - they pretty well all do things that the HX could sorta/kinda/maybe/not really do.

In fact, part of me does wonder if that ML-5 I linked to you would be a better fit for what you're trying to do. I'm loathe to recommend purchasing another part though

Do you need the ability to reorder your dirt chain? eg: move the Defizzerator in front of the Loop Switcher with the Broughton and Mosky?

If the ML-5 is replacing something I'd be more amenable to it but I'll think about it

the H/LPF, Defizzerator, and Decimator will always be in that order after the dirt, though with some dirt (like the Vintage Ultra by itself or the Mosky by itself), I may switch it off

 

[BunchyMutt]

And you mentioned you use the B3N for amp/cab emulation - is there a reason it's in loop 3 rather than in loop 5 (ie: naturally at the end of your chain, rather than forcing reordering of effects)

Because the way I have it now, loop 4 pedals come after it and then I modulate all of that

 

[gregmon79]

I can't blame @GentProvocateur wanting to keep the 60b for some things. It's so small and can still be utilized for great tools at times. I know I still wanted to keep mine on board after I got the HX because of the synths. But I don't ever use synths, so off it went. But I still have it and would totally plop it back on if I could. Maybe someday. It's a great pedal to have around.

 

[been_effected]

We need the TalkBass version of Reddit Gold for the awesome work that @been_effected has just put together.

@been_effected
View attachment 3192705

Agreed. I'm wondering if we should contact a mod to sticky this portion of the thread or set it apart somehow. So much good stuff here

Thanks you guys, I really appreciate that! Just trying to help (and spent far too much time nerding out over my own board, I think)

 

[BunchyMutt]

Can you tell it was a slow day today?
Sorry for the nerd dump guys - back to HX Effects chat now.

Thank goodness for slow days. And I for one think you have nothing to be sorry for!

OK - here's a first revision. Hold your breath because...we're going to 4CM your HXFX and ES-5:

We'll consume 4 of the total 9 blocks available in the HXFX by dropping the MS-60B and having the components you mentioned broken out into their own blocks. You'll need to allow for a minimum of 2 blocks, maximum of 4 blocks for the Effects send and returns in the HXFX. 2 if you have the loop inserted at the same point, and 4 if you need to split the location.

Don't know how the parametric eq on the HX works yet, but the one on the MS-60B is two bands per one slot. If the HX para eq is only one band it'll need another slot.

I've dropped the MS-60B and to be honest we might well be able to drop the B3N

Not following since the B3n is doing amp modeling and the HX doesn't do that.

Also, Loop 1 on the ES-5 will ALWAYS need to be on, or this won't work. You might find conceptually it's a better idea to make the insert on Loop 5 instead.

So then I'd just turn off the effect blocks if I don't need them? I don't think I'm understanding because this doesn't seem as elegant as the rest of your routing.

OK, I need to go to work now. I suppose we can take this over to PM to make sure it's not decluttering the thread

 

[been_effected]

If the ML-5 is replacing something I'd be more amenable to it but I'll think about it

the H/LPF, Defizzerator, and Decimator will always be in that order after the dirt, though with some dirt (like the Vintage Ultra by itself or the Mosky by itself), I may switch it off

So long as you don't want to put, say, the Defizzerator in front of the Vintage Ultra, then the ML-5 will work (the ES-5 has "matrix" switching, which as you probably know any loop can be placed in any order)

Because the way I have it now, loop 4 pedals come after it and then I modulate all of that

Ahhh, so you mean you do it that way to emulate modulation effects in an effects loop? Hmm.

 

[BunchyMutt]

So long as you don't want to put, say, the Defizzerator in front of the Vintage Ultra, then the ML-5 will work (the ES-5 has "matrix" switching, which as you probably know any loop can be placed in any order)



Ahhh, so you mean you do it that way to emulate modulation effects in an effects loop? Hmm.

Yup!

 

[BunchyMutt]

I can't blame @GentProvocateur wanting to keep the 60b for some things. It's so small and can still be utilized for great tools at times. I know I still wanted to keep mine on board after I got the HX because of the synths. But I don't ever use synths, so off it went. But I still have it and would totally plop it back on if I could. Maybe someday. It's a great pedal to have around.

Yeah, super convenient as an always on thing

 

[been_effected]

Thank goodness for slow days. And I for one think you have nothing to be sorry for!



View attachment 3192741

Don't know how the parametric eq on the HX works yet, but the one on the MS-60B is two bands per one slot. If the HX para eq is only one band it'll need another slot.


Not following since the B3n is doing amp modeling and the HX doesn't do that.


So then I'd just turn off the effect blocks if I don't need them? I don't think I'm understanding because this doesn't seem as elegant as the rest of your routing.

OK, I need to go to work now. I suppose we can take this over to PM to make sure it's not decluttering the thread

I'll need to check the parametric EQ for you. I have a feeling it's 3 bands?
I was suggesting moving the B3N to the HX output, but if you're wanting to put modulation effects after the B3N, then I'd leave it where you have it now I think.

And no - what I'm saying is in any patch change that you program for the ES-5, you will need to make sure Loop 1 is turned on in every patch. Otherwise no signal flow for you!

Yup!

OK, then I guess leave the B3N in Loop 3, and the ML-5 option would still work

 

[BunchyMutt]

And no - what I'm saying is in any patch change that you program for the ES-5, you will need to make sure Loop 1 is turned on in every patch. Otherwise no signal flow for you!

hmm, does t seem ideal since there are times when I’ll want it off. Plus, I would be limiting the number of blocks I can use for modulation stuff if there’s a perpetual 4-block hold. Am I understanding this correctly?

Sounds like I should look further into the ml5 though