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Line 6 HX Effects
- Thread starter ChubbyJerk
- Start date
Thanks! I'm starting from zero when it comes to MIDI
Thanks for the explanation. With the ES-5 I was envisioning (a) switching between different dirt pedals (b) switching to patches of dirt going into verb/modulation/delay patches in the HXFX.
For the latter, I guess I could connect the HX to the ES-5 via 1/4" and switch patches on the HX and then activate that patch using the ES-5. Could using MIDI let me only use one foot switch?
Can you explain what you mean by "amp ir". My understanding is that an ir is a digital model of a physical space....?
Yes
When you make a speaker IR, you use (normally) a neutral power amp.
You play test tones through the speaker which is recorded by the mic(s) that are part of the IR (and room depending on how it is captured. The standard tone is played through the speaker and recorded. Then what got recorded is compared to the original and the software figures out the response and that is what the IR file contains.
The IR's linked above are done through amps. So they would be playing the test tones (it's a full frequency sweep) through the actual Amp/Speaker combos.
That's why they are listing them AC 30 Bright channel, Amp V4-B etc.
So in THEORY, playing direct through these IR's will give you the frequency curve of what the amp/speaker/mics would do to your tone.
It WON'T give you the overdrive however.
But if you hit it with a subtle drive (like the Obsidian) you might get something really good.
A subtle compressor before it would also be a good move as that will simulate amp sag.
I believe you could setup midi CC commands to change different parameters on both the HX and ES. That’s supposed to be the benefit of midi, changing multiple things on different pedals at once. I’ve only dabbled a bit with synths and midi so I’m not overly familiar with programming it.
From previous messages though does that controllability only flow one way?
I think I need a primer on MIDI. I'm going to dive into it, but any of you have videos or readings that would be good for a beginner?
I'm really liking the comps and boosts in the HX. I always have liked them but now that I'm duel rig'in it I'm using more stuff in different ways. I love the tube comp and the MXR micro boost comp model. They sound so good going into a tube head.
I don't have any videos to recommend off hand. The HX and the ES5 are both capable MIDI controllers. Having owned an ES8 previously and now using the HX, I can say that the ES5/8 are a bit more powerful.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the HX can send up to 6 instant commands on preset recall. But each switch within a preset (1-6) can only be programmed to send 1 instant command within a preset.
So say I wanted to recall patch #1 on my the FI, and also recall patch #5 on a Strymon BigSky. Well you can do that easily with 2 of the 6 "instant" commands when you recall a preset. BUT what if one or both of those pedals isn't on a loop in the HX and you don't necessarily want them both ON when you switch to that preset. You can't unless you use 1 or 2 more "instant" commands to tell those pedals to turn OFF/ON (as needed). You'd still have to tap dance a bit when you're ready to turn them on, and you'd have to use 2 switches in the preset, 1 for each command. Does that make sense?
I don't remember the specifics, but each switch on the ES5/8 can be programmed to send multiple (up to 8?) MIDI commands simultaneously as well as toggling 1 or more effects loops. It's pretty cool. The HX really isn't designed to be a switcher AND super capable MIDI controller, but it can to some extent. It's just a bit more limited.
The trick with MIDI is that there are generally many ways to accomplish one thing, so the variables are practically endless. I'm not saying the HX can't accomplish what you may need, but I do think it requires some critical thinking. To me it's not a MIDI controller first and foremost. It just happens to be more capable than most other multi effects units.
Of course your mileage may vary. For me the capabilities of the ES5/8 were amazing but almost entirely beyond my needs. And I'm doing most of my effects now on the HX instead of with individual pedals.
If you wanted the best of both worlds, I think you pair an HX Effects with a Morningstar MC6 MIDI controller. That would pretty much get it done!
Sorry, I know my post is probably just muddying in the waters for you, @GentProvocateur. Just wanted to get some thoughts on the HX MIDI stuff out in the open.
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Let's take another step back - how about you tell me about your whole effects board? Can you draw a conceptual diagram or take a photo and step us through how everything is plugged in? I think that'll help me work out where you're trying to get to and give you the advice you need.
For example, right now the first question I have is "switching between different *real* dirt pedals? Or *virtual* dirt pedals in the HX? Or both?". Which makes things more difficult as I don't yet have a good understanding of what else you have.
To make things even more complicated, you can do 4 cable method with your HX and ES-5 as well, theoretically allowing you to move, mix and match real and virtual effects pedals all over the place in your signal chain.
Short answer is yes, MIDI can let you use one foot switch to control something. The longer answer is it depends, because both the ES-5 and the HX can be programmed to do *something* when a particular MIDI message is received.
For instance, before I picked up a Stomp, I had one of these: https://www.morningstarfx.com/ml5
The ML-5 is basically 5 effects loops, in series, controllable by MIDI.
By using certain MIDI messages, I could not only turn specific loops on and off with the HXFX switches, but by switching patches on the HXFX, the act of switching the patch sent a different type of MIDI message to the ML-5, setting it to a certain state (eg: "when I receive this MIDI message, I'm going to turn on loops 2, 4 and 5 simultaneously, and turn off all others).
Yep, I second most of this.
The part about the instants though I'm a little more hesitant on - I could have sworn it was possible to send more than one MIDI CC per switch, but I could be wrong, and I don't have a HXFX anymore to check (sorry)
Still rewiring my board since another pedal is arriving tomorrow, but here’s a diagram of what I’m thinking, written in cramped chicken scratch
I’m using the HX for:
- delays/chorus/verb stuff modifying cleans and dirt in feedig it from other pedals.
- the occasional dirt patch (ambient fuzz for example)
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Still rewriting my board since another pedal is arriving tomorrow, but here’s a diagram of what I’m thinking written in cramped chicken scratch
View attachment 3192612
I’m using the HX for:
- delays/chorus/verb stuff modifying cleans and dirt in feedig it from other pedals.
- the occasional dirt patch (ambient fuzz for example)
...woah. OK. Give me a little while to translate.
Yeah, feel free to ask any questions about pedals, goals, whatever. You’ve been a great help so far.
Righto - questions, in no particular order:
- Is there a reason you're keeping the MS-60B? Your patch examples tend to see Loop 1 at the beginning, and the only thing I can see the Zoom bringing to the table that the HXFX or the rest of your chain doesn't is amp/cab modelling. What's the MS-60B doing for you?
- For the Zoom, your notes state "Compressor, (something), EQ, (something)". Can you fill in the blanks for me?
- You have another loop switcher in there (in your distortion section by the looks) - is that manually controlled? A/B switching? Or separate on/off so you can blend?
- The Ghost Trap looks cool (found it in the Broughton thread after some googling). Can you tell me more about how it works with the two loops between the Megalith and the Hyper Luminal/Joyo pedals?
- You have a Zoom B3N running after your DG VMT Ultra (Loop 3). What's this doing here?
- I take it the Decimator II is needed to calm the Amptweaker? (Loop 4)
- To confirm, you have the Dig Dug and Disrupter going into one of the effects loops on the HXFX?
- Is your "EQ" block (between ES-5 and Amp) a separate pedal/rack unit?
RE: Volume pedal/expression pedal. You'll get better response times if you connect the expression pedal to the HXFX directly. I vaguely remember having latency issues when I was playing around with expression pedals, running to the ES-5, then trying to run those change messages on to another pedal.
Do you need a separate volume pedal ahead of everything? Remember that you can use a expression pedal with the HXFX to control a volume block, so you have *another* option to control volume later in the chain if needed.
- Is there a reason you're keeping the MS-60B? Your patch examples tend to see Loop 1 at the beginning, and the only thing I can see the Zoom bringing to the table that the HXFX or the rest of your chain doesn't is amp/cab modelling. What's the MS-60B doing for you?
- For the Zoom, your notes state "Compressor, (something), EQ, (something)". Can you fill in the blanks for me?
- You have another loop switcher in there (in your distortion section by the looks) - is that manually controlled? A/B switching? Or separate on/off so you can blend?
- The Ghost Trap looks cool (found it in the Broughton thread after some googling). Can you tell me more about how it works with the two loops between the Megalith and the Hyper Luminal/Joyo pedals?
- You have a Zoom B3N running after your DG VMT Ultra (Loop 3). What's this doing here?
- I take it the Decimator II is needed to calm the Amptweaker? (Loop 4)
- To confirm, you have the Dig Dug and Disrupter going into one of the effects loops on the HXFX?
- Is your "EQ" block (between ES-5 and Amp) a separate pedal/rack unit?
RE: Volume pedal/expression pedal. You'll get better response times if you connect the expression pedal to the HXFX directly. I vaguely remember having latency issues when I was playing around with expression pedals, running to the ES-5, then trying to run those change messages on to another pedal.
Do you need a separate volume pedal ahead of everything? Remember that you can use a expression pedal with the HXFX to control a volume block, so you have *another* option to control volume later in the chain if needed.
Nah, it'd only be used for dropping out suddenly, and I have the tuner + the multiple noise suppressors to do thatRighto - questions, in no particular order:
- Is there a reason you're keeping the MS-60B? Your patch examples tend to see Loop 1 at the beginning, and the only thing I can see the Zoom bringing to the table that the HXFX or the rest of your chain doesn't is amp/cab modelling. What's the MS-60B doing for you?
Mostly drives the Ghost Trap setup, general early chain tone shaping and tightening up for when the Ghost Trap setup isn't activated. I could absolutely put it in Loop 2 though now that you raise this issue.
- For the Zoom, your notes state "Compressor, (something), EQ, (something)". Can you fill in the blanks for me?
Comp, ZNR (noise reduction), EQ, Boost
- You have another loop switcher in there (in your distortion section by the looks) - is that manually controlled? A/B switching? Or separate on/off so you can blend?
Manual. Switch between A or B, or a third switch that feeds A into B
- The Ghost Trap looks cool (found it in the Broughton thread after some googling). Can you tell me more about how it works with the two loops between the Megalith and the Hyper Luminal/Joyo pedals?
Two loops, each with a dedicated high and low pass filter that are then blended back together. It arose out of my frustration with the two main methods of making clean + distorted bass. There were crossovers like the Iron Ether Divaricator or XD, where a single crossover control dictated low frequencies for the highs and high frequencies for the lows. Or there was blending the fully distorted signal with the fully clean signal.
Each loop has a dedicated Gain control. Cutoff frequencies are slightly different for each loop - lows are on the left, highs on the right. Could also serve as an amp splitter since there's capabilities of sending each loop to a different output. For the Low channel, signal is Gain-->LPF-->Low Send/Return-->HPF. And on the High channel it's the reverse. Gain-->HPF-->Send/Return-->LPF
- You have a Zoom B3N running after your DG VMT Ultra (Loop 3). What's this doing here?
Amp modelling and EQ.
- I take it the Decimator II is needed to calm the Amptweaker? (Loop 4)
The Amptweaker is actually just a passive tone control essentially. The De-fizzerator.
- To confirm, you have the Dig Dug and Disrupter going into one of the effects loops on the HXFX?
Yup!
- Is your "EQ" block (between ES-5 and Amp) a separate pedal/rack unit?
Yup. Barely used, just for effect - a little bass and treble boost that gets switched on for a couple bars.
RE: Volume pedal/expression pedal. You'll get better response times if you connect the expression pedal to the HXFX directly. I vaguely remember having latency issues when I was playing around with expression pedals, running to the ES-5, then trying to run those change messages on to another pedal.
Great to know
Do you need a separate volume pedal ahead of everything? Remember that you can use a expression pedal with the HXFX to control a volume block, so you have *another* option to control volume later in the chain if needed.
As you can see, disgustingly circuitous. I'm slowly trying to find suitable replacements for the dirt - I mean, it's 10 pedals (not counting entire banks in the B3n) for my main distortion sound. But that's another issue.
Also, just remembered that both the Waifu and Molecular Disruptor have expression jacks that I want to utilize, though the former is more pressing
Before I give you a long reply - how radical do you want me to go with this?
I mean, I can answer the question you've asked around MIDI control, but there's a very real potential here that I could recommend ripping chunks out of your setup purely because the HXFX can do it instead, with the right wiring diagram. Are you comfortable with that?
For example - the early chain tone shaping of the MS-60B - flesh this out for me.
