I look at my board quite a bit. Gotten better over the last year, mostly from sight reading jazz charts, but nobody seems to really care. I certainly don't.
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Lined vs Unlined
- Thread starter Pirate Captain
- Start date
Ok, maybe we should all take a step back and define what “playing in tune” really even means.
+or- 5 cents? 10 cents?? 20 cents???
Some of the time? Most of the time?? All of the time???
Can I bend a 5th or a 9th for effect, or is that bad form on a fretless?
Being 5 cents off on the crescendo finale whole note sounds a lot worse than being 25 cents a few triplets at 120 bpm.
Anyway, my point is, we do the best we can. If you think your intonation sucks, work on it and make it better. If your bandmates think your intonation sucks….maybe fretless ain’t for you.
+or- 5 cents? 10 cents?? 20 cents???
Some of the time? Most of the time?? All of the time???
Can I bend a 5th or a 9th for effect, or is that bad form on a fretless?
Being 5 cents off on the crescendo finale whole note sounds a lot worse than being 25 cents a few triplets at 120 bpm.
Anyway, my point is, we do the best we can. If you think your intonation sucks, work on it and make it better. If your bandmates think your intonation sucks….maybe fretless ain’t for you.
I'm sure Tony's just having a little fun here, but I don't agree with the premise;
Lines and dots aren't what make you play in (or out of) tune.
Muscle memory and visual cues may assist in getting you to the proper position/note, but its your ears that determine final pitch & temperament - lined or unlined, it makes no differnce.
That adjustment happens in an instant.
Lines and dots aren't what make you play in (or out of) tune.
Muscle memory and visual cues may assist in getting you to the proper position/note, but its your ears that determine final pitch & temperament - lined or unlined, it makes no differnce.
That adjustment happens in an instant.
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Famous bassist spouts BS. It is still BS. Invalid assumption that a bassist using a lined fretless is relying on their eyes and not their ears. If you are relying on visual aids over what you are hearing, you are ehf'ing up regardless of the instrument, fretless or no.
I play other unlined instruments. The comparison towards the beginning is not valid.
I play other unlined instruments. The comparison towards the beginning is not valid.
Btw, the OP dropped this deuce and hasn't posted since, near as I can tell.
Troll thread.
Troll thread.
devnulljp
Supporting Member
OK, now that's sorted, how about pick vs. fingers on lined vs. unlined (with or without tort).
Sheesh. Play what you like, don't play what you don't. How hard is that?
Sheesh. Play what you like, don't play what you don't. How hard is that?
Kind of a repeat response, with a little more detail….
I have both; I use both. I have to use both.
My ability to see either lines or side dots varies based on whether I’m sitting or standing.
When sitting, I can use either, but I probably play best overall with lines.
When standing & playing a fretless bass on a strap, I can see side dots much better, so I can obviously play better using side dots when standing. I can see lines while standing, but it requires that I stand oddly bent over and it’s a little uncomfortable. I can play the unlined (with side dots) standing up straight as if I’m playing fretted.
As for Tony’s demo about the major 3rd being sharp if playing directly on the line, I see no reason a player can’t adjust on either type of neck. I can and I have.
I guess I have some minor advantage due to playing both upright bass and violin, but I use stick-on side markers at the G, A, & B positions of the E string. I use no reference markers on the violin.
I have both; I use both. I have to use both.
My ability to see either lines or side dots varies based on whether I’m sitting or standing.
When sitting, I can use either, but I probably play best overall with lines.
When standing & playing a fretless bass on a strap, I can see side dots much better, so I can obviously play better using side dots when standing. I can see lines while standing, but it requires that I stand oddly bent over and it’s a little uncomfortable. I can play the unlined (with side dots) standing up straight as if I’m playing fretted.
As for Tony’s demo about the major 3rd being sharp if playing directly on the line, I see no reason a player can’t adjust on either type of neck. I can and I have.
I guess I have some minor advantage due to playing both upright bass and violin, but I use stick-on side markers at the G, A, & B positions of the E string. I use no reference markers on the violin.
Apples / oranges.
Jaco said it best. To paraphrase, the upright is against the body and every note feels different, whereas the guitar is a long lonely plank of wood that sticks out perpendicular from the body and it all feels the same (more or less).
you know...I put this out there to have a bit of fun...but here are a few things I've learned
-people will say "I'm sick of this" and then write a small russian novel about their thoughts
-tribes are real
-I'm still not sure how you can "see" the lines past the top string if you are standing up
-people will say "I'm sick of this" and then write a small russian novel about their thoughts
-tribes are real
-I'm still not sure how you can "see" the lines past the top string if you are standing up
First day with my new Tony Franklin at practice. Drummer was calling less frequently played numbers.
My sincere apologies to anyone who heard me and to my fellow band mates/ victims. Guess I needed the lesson in either humility or humiliation, whichever and both…
However, I am inspired. Nice bass, can’t blame it for what I did with it!
My sincere apologies to anyone who heard me and to my fellow band mates/ victims. Guess I needed the lesson in either humility or humiliation, whichever and both…
However, I am inspired. Nice bass, can’t blame it for what I did with it!
If the post was "a bit of fun", do you have an opinion one way or the other? Just wondering....
It might just be me, but I heard a few misses in that one.
But I enjoyed it thoroughly anyway!!!
Ha, yet another lines vs unlined discussion. Didn’t see that coming!
I like Tony Franklin and love his playing in Blue Murder, don’t want to put him down in any way. But his intonation in most of his videos is not the greatest so taking advice from him on this subject is not the first thing I would do. Although he has some interesting things to say in that video.
Why is he taking his left thumb of the board and in front of the neck when playing the F#? He is doing that a lot. Curious about that.
I like Tony Franklin and love his playing in Blue Murder, don’t want to put him down in any way. But his intonation in most of his videos is not the greatest so taking advice from him on this subject is not the first thing I would do. Although he has some interesting things to say in that video.
Why is he taking his left thumb of the board and in front of the neck when playing the F#? He is doing that a lot. Curious about that.
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If the post was "a bit of fun", do you have an opinion one way or the other? Just wondering....
my "personal" opinion doesn't matter much because I'm not a virtuoso bassist (with frets or not). From my own experience, I play standing up, and can't "see" the bottom three strings (certainly not any lines), and the dot placement on a converted fretted to fretless causes more harm than good.
It is interesting how perspectives differ: the type of circumstance that you cite here is exactly why I value lined fretless! I don't have the same experience playing live, but I play along with a lot recorded material at home. I frequently run into recordings that are in tune with themselves, but not the "rest of the world." That is actually one of the reasons I got into into fretless, so I can compensate for things like this.
I should mention that I am far from being an accomplished fretless player. I rely on muscle memory, my ears, and visual reference in order to have any hope of playing in tune. Like a three legged stool, my intonation would "fall over" if any one of the three were taken away.
When I start playing with something that is "out of tune," I pretty quickly figure out with my ears where to shift. I then relate this shift to where my fingers are in relation to the lines. As I continue to play, I continue to reference the visual amount of shift needed. It works in conjunction with my ears as well, as I keep adjusting/refining/tuning as I go.
In reference to this whole thread, including the Tony Franklin video, I continue to be baffled by the pervasive implication that people who play lined fingerboards are compelled, or forced somehow, to always put their fingers directly on the lines! I have never felt this way.
As Tony said, he uses visual references when playing. To me, lines are just a more detailed visual reference (in contrast to side dots only.) This is why I have switched to to a lined fingerboard.
To repeat, or state in a different way, I still rely heavily on my ears, but having lines gives me more visual reference to connect with what I am hearing. My ears are still the "boss," but I have additional visual information in regard to what my ears are saying.
Hopefully that makes sense. Cheers!
Excellent question - Everyone knows the place the thumb should be is over the neck, on the E string....
