Live performance - have analog effects pedals had their day?

[bassbrad]

I think there will continue to be a place for both; some players may go full multi, others will stay full single pedal and others like myself will use a mix of the two.

 

[Aidenn7]

So you mean bringing a laptop to the gig?

yes.
well if you listen to rings of Saturn or messhuggah they run pro tools for there show and have the effect queue built into it to automatically go.. if you ask me they are ahead of some many bands in their thinking.. cause it's uber hard to make changes on the fly.. and their sound is killer.. cradle of filth uses micro mooer pre amp and cab pedals.. that's pretty innovative if you ask me.. as far as bass we use sans amp.. DI boxes.. the newest thing I've seen is the annex bass channel.. so I think that's the future of bass.. once the Ampeg 810 generation goes.. pedals board will be the amp. or we'll just connect to a tablet.. or laptop. but I think in ears. may become less popular.. and the same thing that deaf people use will me the new thing.. audio vibration transmitters. just my thought..

 

[ga_edwards]

This is totally cyclical.
P.S. the same thing is happening over in the synthesizer world where vintage-style analogs are all the rage, despite the baggage they bring with them when it comes to live performance.

It's happening in photography circles too. Many people think that DSLR's have had their day, as mirrorless is the new hotness, which does away with the bulk. But I feel it's going to be a while until they can compete properly.

However, film is making a comeback amongst enthusiasts who feel that digital has taken something away from the artistic process. Indeed, Kodak have even started making Ektachrome slide film again.

 

[FerK]

I'd like to listen to a good demo of the helix if anyone can find one. What I'm hearing just isn't cutting the mustard imo. Preferably one without a bunch of backing tracks mucking up what I'm trying to hear.

I will gladly make one for you. Just tell me the parameters (what effects, what simulations, what bass line to play) and I'll jump on it tomorrow night. Should be fun.

 

[Wulfensteiner]

I may backpedal a little bit. I can imagine a nice multi with cool stuff as a PART of my board, but not taking over the whole darn thing.

 

[Bassmike62]

Simply put, no.

Where multi's are super cool to mess around with and are a GREAT way to sample effects, they aim to make everything 'easier', the configuration of a lot of them makes it anything BUT.

My thought as well. The "analog vs digital" is not much of an issue for me. I prefer analog, but have no problem using digital if the pedal offers what I need (Digitech BSW being an example). The "dedicated pedal vs multi" is an interesting debate. I like having an almost infinite selection of effects, but setting and tweaking patches is a bit of a hassle and more important, in my limited experience, using a multi live is not as simple as using dedicated pedals. And in either case, no band I've played with in the last 10 years were into the bending-down-to-tweak-the-setttings-between-songs thing. The guitarists who did were always told to do it on their own time, not the band's time.

 

[Mister Boh]

The Artist is a different beast. It uses their Wazacraft speaker and everything in the amp was set up and fine tuned with that speaker in mind. For gigging it Id definitely prefervthe Artist model. It does sound better to my ears. For home use the 50 would be fine for me. And I agree that even with the Artist it’s not there completely yet. But it is workable in its current form. And the fact it’s firmware based means you’re not stuck with what you’ve got today. They’ll continue to develop it.

But I’m curious. Did you load the companion app and get into the nitty gritty details of configuring it to your own tastes? Or did you just go with the stock setup?

I did load the app but never really tinkered with anything. I suspect I could have gotten more mileage out of it if I did but a big part of why I sold it is I just wanted something I plug into and get a great sound.

Not surprised the artist is much better with an improved speaker. They practically give away the 50 and 100 for what they charge. I think they would make an excellent first amp though and more for those that like to tweak sounds. Wish stuff like this existed when I first started.

 

[el murdoque]

This is a dirty lie. Nespresso is terrible.

I myself hate the whole concept. of Nespresso.
-The fact that the coffee costs about 60 times as much as it'd cost of you bought it outside the capsules.
-The fact that these capsules wreck havok on our environment.
-The fact that a small pastic automatron where the user just has to press a button replaces a big iron machine that takes experience to operate.

Here comes the 'but':

I challenge you to a blind test.
Use a very good espresso machine operated by an experienced barista, something mediocre and a Nespresso.
It's kind of like the Kemper. More or less impossible to tell a difference.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

the cycle of multifx and modelers:

- new multi/modeler comes out
- claims you can sell your pedals/amps
- try it, sounds great!
- sell pedals/amps
- use it for a while and realize its not the same
- buy pedals/amps again
- new multi comes out...

I kept a few old preamps. Never felt the need to repurchase anything

 

[-Asdfgh-]

IMHO no...digital no matter how well built will never be as reliable as analog...

I have a portable TV my parents bought me at Sears in 1976...still going strong...care to know how many Digital, Plasma, and LED TV's have come and gone in the last 10 years?

That being said i just ordered a SA Aftershock...lol

There's no reason why digital can't be reliable. I've only ever had two issues, a dead battery in a 15 year old unit, and a dodgy custom power supply. Most now use more standard supplies.

I've not had many problems with analogue either, mostly 9v battery connections, and 9v power input sockets.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I myself hate the whole concept. of Nespresso.
-The fact that the coffee costs about 60 times as much as it'd cost of you bought it outside the capsules.
-The fact that these capsules wreck havok on our environment.
-The fact that a small pastic automatron where the user just has to press a button replaces a big iron machine that takes experience to operate.

Here comes the 'but':

I challenge you to a blind test.
Use a very good espresso machine operated by an experienced barista, something mediocre and a Nespresso.
It's kind of like the Kemper. More or less impossible to tell a difference.

I just used a Nespresso (not mine). One button is easy to use when you haven't yet had coffee!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

yes.
well if you listen to rings of Saturn or messhuggah they run pro tools for there show and have the effect queue built into it to automatically go.. if you ask me they are ahead of some many bands in their thinking.. cause it's uber hard to make changes on the fly.. and their sound is killer.. cradle of filth uses micro mooer pre amp and cab pedals.. that's pretty innovative if you ask me.. as far as bass we use sans amp.. DI boxes.. the newest thing I've seen is the annex bass channel.. so I think that's the future of bass.. once the Ampeg 810 generation goes.. pedals board will be the amp. or we'll just connect to a tablet.. or laptop. but I think in ears. may become less popular.. and the same thing that deaf people use will me the new thing.. audio vibration transmitters. just my thought..

I've played with automating via a laptop (already in use for light an backing tracks, and I've experimented with it for mixing too), but the issue for me is the relative fragility of a laptop, per se, and I haven't built anything ruggedised.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My thought as well. The "analog vs digital" is not much of an issue for me. I prefer analog, but have no problem using digital if the pedal offers what I need (Digitech BSW being an example). The "dedicated pedal vs multi" is an interesting debate. I like having an almost infinite selection of effects, but setting and tweaking patches is a bit of a hassle and more important, in my limited experience, using a multi live is not as simple as using dedicated pedals. And in either case, no band I've played with in the last 10 years were into the bending-down-to-tweak-the-setttings-between-songs thing. The guitarists who did were always told to do it on their own time, not the band's time.

With the D/A and A/D conversion available now, then assuming the model of the pedal is correct (the principle of chorus is simple) there's no reason that digital should be an issue compared to analogue. In theory, if the chorus pedal was sufficiently well modelled, indistinguishable.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I've played with automating via a laptop (already in use for light an backing tracks, and I've experimented with it for mixing too), but the issue for me is the relative fragility of a laptop, per se, and I haven't built anything ruggedised.

I was working with ruggedised laptops and tablets a few years back and there's stuff on the market that is easily tougher than any multi fx unit, the risk as always is flakey software. I was playing with a keyboard player who had his sounds on an iMac, and even that supposedly reliable OS chose to restart itself halfway through a set leaving us sans keyboards for a whole number...

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My thought as well. The "analog vs digital" is not much of an issue for me. I prefer analog, but have no problem using digital if the pedal offers what I need (Digitech BSW being an example). The "dedicated pedal vs multi" is an interesting debate. I like having an almost infinite selection of effects, but setting and tweaking patches is a bit of a hassle and more important, in my limited experience, using a multi live is not as simple as using dedicated pedals. And in either case, no band I've played with in the last 10 years were into the bending-down-to-tweak-the-setttings-between-songs thing. The guitarists who did were always told to do it on their own time, not the band's time.

I've been using multis live since 1994. Initially the overdrive on them was awful, so I had pedals for that, and a direct recording unit for speaker simulation at the end of the chain (always on). I've never had an issue. I've had a unit break (power supply), but not at a gig.

Currently I don't have exact matches for backup, but I am tempted to rationalise (sell some old multis) for two B3n, but the level of options on the B9 is nice, so I haven't pulled the trigger on that yet. The B9 doesn't have the sonic flexibility of the B3n, but it has great control options and a loop, and foot synth pedals. With two B3n and a couple of external control units, if they could change patches especially, I'd be set for life. .... Maybe.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I was working with ruggedised laptops and tablets a few years back and there's stuff on the market that is easily tougher than any multi fx unit, the risk as always is flakey software. I was playing with a keyboard player who had his sounds on an iMac, and even that supposedly reliable OS chose to restart itself halfway through a set leaving us sans keyboards for a whole number...

There are some bottom of the market micro pcs with windows for about £120. That plus a touchscreen would probably work. I'd probably put Linux on, as that is what I normally use at work, and I know how Linux works. Whether that would have enough processing power to run lights, backing tracks, and bass effects I don't know. I'd have to check if a live oriented VST host was compatible. I kid myself sometimes if wouldn't be much more expensive than a B3n (twice as much really, but would also be running lights, etc).

My concern would be bringing the thing to its knees running Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5, Deep Freq, and a few other things for the full gamut of wibbly noises. I'd have to be careful about using cgroups to assign resources to avoid the lights going out!

But this is another thread.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

There are some bottom of the market micro pcs with windows for about £120. That plus a touchscreen would probably work. I'd probably put Linux on, as that is what I normally use at work, and I know how Linux works. Whether that would have enough processing power to run lights, backing tracks, and bass effects I don't know. I'd have to check if a live oriented VST host was compatible. I kid myself sometimes if wouldn't be much more expensive than a B3n (twice as much really, but would also be running lights, etc).

My concern would be bringing the thing to its knees running Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5, Deep Freq, and a few other things for the full gamut of wibbly noises. I'd have to be careful about using cgroups to assign resources to avoid the lights going out!

But this is another thread.

It is another thread really I tried multi fx through my iPad and it worked, but there was ever-present hiss which for me made it unusable. What I haven't tried yet is doing the same but using my Akai EIE instead of the internal soundcard. More kit to carry though.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It is another thread really I tried multi fx through my iPad and it worked, but there was ever-present hiss which for me made it unusable. What I haven't tried yet is doing the same but using my Akai EIE instead of the internal soundcard. More kit to carry though.

There was a laptop sound thread once. I'll see if I can dig it up.

With a ruggedised pc package, and a patch board, everything could be neatly contained. I could see me doing two, with a Proteus 2000 rack mounted in each, and try some pitch to midi to avoid needing the Sonnuus or ancient Yamaha unit

 

[JimmyM]

yes.
well if you listen to rings of Saturn or messhuggah they run pro tools for there show and have the effect queue built into it to automatically go.. if you ask me they are ahead of some many bands in their thinking.. cause it's uber hard to make changes on the fly..

That's desirable?

 

[Deleted member 165050]

There was a laptop sound thread once. I'll see if I can dig it up.

With a ruggedised pc package, and a patch board, everything could be neatly contained. I could see me doing two, with a Proteus 2000 rack mounted in each, and try some pitch to midi to avoid needing the Sonnuus or ancient Yamaha unit

Pitch to midi apps in the iPad are quite good, I think Sonuus do one but I have MIDImorphosis which is polyphonic and very tweakable.