I described this back in the late '60's as "the band was so loud you couldn't hear it".
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I described this back in the late '60's as "the band was so loud you couldn't hear it".
...and yet that's the norm. When I was getting back into music a dozen years ago I figured there was a greater need for decent sound than just another mediocre bass player
. I still think I'm right but 99% of the bands and their fans disagree (although the 99% of folks that stay home seem to agree with me) so I finally decided that if I can't be part of the solution I'd be part of the problem 
. Most of my bands it's stoopid loud and earplugs (although less stoopid loud than most) and occasional acoustic duo gigs that pay 3x or more of what the rock bands do 
.
There was a guy who gained some national acclaim named Gibb Droll who also played around here locally back in the 90s. SRV type stuff with some soul and funk influences. I LOVED his band and his playing. But I had to wear plugs every show and STILL only lasted about half the show each time. And I was in my twenties back than! His guitar tone and volume was like being shot in the ear by a .22 rifle every note. Has has got to be deaf by now.
Ah, the joys of playing in a band full of deaf people. One of my drummers takes his hearing aids out to play - good luck communicating with him on stage 
. I started using plugs back around 1980...
. I started using plugs back around 1980...
+1, I use the same type of plugs, just a different brand... Probably made at the same factory though, they look identical. Etymotic High Fidelity Earplugs, ER20 ETY-Plugs
There's a difference between "chest pounding/pants flapping" loud, and "literally makes you nauseous" loud. BTW, I love the old JBL scoop bins (and Peavey "W" series)-low and boomy, but tight and punchy enough you can actually hear notes.
That's because they really aren't "subs" - maybe good down to 50Hz at best. The 'fridge rolls off at 58 Hz and the "punch" of the kick is up around 90-100 Hz. Ain't nobody be needin' all that mud below 50...
And yet, if I may put a twist on this conversation, we'll still have all kinds of posts on TB insisting that the "minimum" amp you need to gig with is 400 watts through a 4x10. Of course, yes, you can take a rig like that and turn it down, but then it isn't the "minimum," is it?
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I will, and have, stopped a rehearsal if it gets too loud. I will not tolerate excessive volume. I have been gigging for over 30 years, and still have my hearing. I want to keep it that way.
It's been a year since I last gigged, but I attend lots of local indoor and outdoor shows. There has been a trend lately to runs subs much lower and louder than normal. I hate it. Attending shows now becomes physically exhausting due to the excessive compression on my entire body. I do carry earplugs, but the sub thing sucks.
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I know, right? Where are the dynamics? Pianissimo can engage the audience, as well.
I always bring ear protection. Just in case. Like a lot of us here my hearing is damaged and I really, really regret playing and going to shows without it. Part of being young and feeling invulnerable I guess.
Other good points brought up here as well. A bad mix is a bad mix and the last show I saw was pretty muddy. I even removed my plugs to make sure it wasn't just them.
Other good points brought up here as well. A bad mix is a bad mix and the last show I saw was pretty muddy. I even removed my plugs to make sure it wasn't just them.
The last show I went to was a gig of Level 42 and you describe exactly my experience. The music was so loud that it was just a big blur, a wall of noise coming at me. That concert gave me extra hearing damage for sure. They were playing in a small room with maybe 400 people, but they produced a volume as if they were giving a concert in a big stadium. I love level 42, but that was the last gig of them I will ever go to. Previous gig's I went to of Level 42 was also way to loud so I don't think they will change that in the future. It's a real shame, because when I listen and look at concert video's of them it sounds great.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I've have heard this from many venue owners. You will never lose a gig for playing too softly. You WILL lose a gig (quickly) from playing too loudly.
It's not just smaller bands and venues. I was at a Genesis concert right after Duke came out where the sound was so obnoxiously loud and distorted that GF and I left after the first half hour. It was that or risk permanent ear damage. (Or brain danage from lustening to Phil Collin's unfunny stage banter between the songs.) And we were nowhere near in front/center of the stage. Same with the Stones some years after. Huge sound system. Godawful distortion and volume. Probably mattered less for the type of stuff The Stones do. And not being able to hear Mick's "vocals" is not a bad thing IMO. But the sound was still pretty sad for a band with their years of touring experience and the money they have to work with.
Volumes have gotten out of hand, even at the movies... I wear ear plugs at shows, even at the movies... One of my fav venues in NYC allows bands to use their own FOH engineer with their board, there is a huge sign on the mixer that says "YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF THE VOLUME". In the bigger rooms the PA does most of the work, in the smaller rooms the players are just not minding their stage volume. MY band uses in ear monitors so you can always jack up levels without changing the amp level and it works very well. Lower stage volumes allow the PA to fill in the room nicely, it takes musicians years to get used to that concept, in ears help achieve that much sooner.
Yeah, it's mostly the small bar shows around here that drive me nuts, and that's all I've been playing.
One of the guys in my band has hearing damage and seems to prefer the foams vs the filtered plugs. And my drummer seems to prefer heavier sticks vs lighter. Which means it's even harder for us to achieve good less intrusive sound.
One of the guys in my band has hearing damage and seems to prefer the foams vs the filtered plugs. And my drummer seems to prefer heavier sticks vs lighter. Which means it's even harder for us to achieve good less intrusive sound.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Then the band should sit down and talk. If a musician doesn't understand how to control volume appropriately for a room, he/she shouldn't be in a band.
That would be "Townshend." The part of the family that came over to the colonies in the 17th century dropped the "h" to distance themselves from the reprehensible lot that remained under Henry VIII.
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