I remember going to see ZZ Top at the Centrum in Worcester MA back in the mid-80s and saying the same thing. They were so loud you couldn't hear anything.
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I remember going to see ZZ Top at the Centrum in Worcester MA back in the mid-80s and saying the same thing. They were so loud you couldn't hear anything.
One secret of Redhead's success as a club band is the guy standing all the way to the left. Bill makes us loud enough for the dancers, but not so loud that the bartenders can't hear orders. He switched over to an iPad interface a while back, and he can fine tune from different parts of the room.
The drummer I was playing with recently works for Clair Brothers and does FOH for a lot of A-list and B-list tours. By coincidence, I was planning to visit my brother in Atlanta two years ago when ZZ Top was wrapping up a short tour there so the drummer got us passes. We got to sit at the board with him for the show and both the volume and mix were fantastic for all three acts - an acoustic guitar player who opened the show, Jeff Beck, and then ZZ Top.
This is one of the ways that I know I'm "old" now; I go to concerts only if I can sit down, and then I complain about how loud it is haha!
I was in the Metallica concert in San Antonio. It was so loud that it gave headache in the second song. I took out my earplugs and it was loud still. Both guitars and drums. But the bass was muddy and toneless. I enjoy better their live videos in youtube. It was a sweet and sour experience and a very priced $$ one. It haen with the newsboys too.
I have a number of observations about this, so I appreciate your patience in advance. First of all, I play in an extreme metal band with a loud drummer, so we play at a fairly high stage volume due to distrust of the average club sound guy. We know that metal shows are more about feeling the music than quietly listening, so we pace our live shows differently than our recorded music. Still, underground metal shows are often 3 - 7 bands in a row screaming at the audience, and very few people stick around the entire time. Surprise, their ears are fatigued!! So we often add music in the middle of our set that is specifically for people to actually have something to listen to, and then we return to bludgeoning them. For example, I played acoustic upright bass at our last show.
Next, a number of people have observed the age-old problem of metal bass getting lost under the kick drum. I don't usually have this problem. Time after time, I've gone onstage with trepidation after a number of bands have the bass buried, only to hear afterwards that everything I played was heard clearly in the room. I attribute this to dialing up a sound that has more mids and upper-mids than usual so I'm not fighting those subs, and to providing a really clear signal from a Genz Benz head. Sound guys seem to actually get excited about my sound and some even mix me too high. (As a musician, I'm still not satisfied with my sound, lol) It's definitely a tricky thing to find a place to sit in a live mix. My guitarists tune down to C, and I'm sometimes playing an octave and a half under that on a 7-string.
Oh, lookie what I found. I promise everything else that night was thrashing or brutal:
I use custom earplugs at all shows if I am playing or just in the audience.
Lady Gaga had really good sound when I saw her a few weeks ago. Not too loud at all.
I play in a metal band, and we are always really loud, so my threshold is pretty high, which is why I have good earplugs.
Lady Gaga had really good sound when I saw her a few weeks ago. Not too loud at all.
I play in a metal band, and we are always really loud, so my threshold is pretty high, which is why I have good earplugs.
I've worn earplugs to every show and practice for 25 years now. Even moderate amounts of noise at low levels can damage your ears. It would be nice not to have to do that, but it isn't a deal breaker for me.
What is a deal breaker for live shows for me is the lack of seating or the ability to see the stage. I don't want to stand for hours and since I'm only 5'10" I can have trouble seeing the stage at the floor level if there are a bunch of tall people in front of me. Or some @$$ that is shooting the entire show on their phone and all I can see is the glare from their phone display.
+1 for YouTube videos.
Went to a local Friday night 'picnic/concert' nearby a few weeks ago. Band was country by name only. In actuality they were a bass band. That's all that anyone heard. I walked around but everywhere all anyone could hear was a way too loud bass. Never heard the drums, keys, singer, or guitar. Never. Where was the sound engineer? Sitting at a folding table about 15 feet in front of the band, smiling like they sounded great. They did not. About 500 there when they began. After four songs less than half that. But the bass kept on pumping and the sound guy kept on smiling. We left after 20 minutes.
Went to a local Friday night 'picnic/concert' nearby a few weeks ago. Band was country by name only. In actuality they were a bass band. That's all that anyone heard. I walked around but everywhere all anyone could hear was a way too loud bass. Never heard the drums, keys, singer, or guitar. Never. Where was the sound engineer? Sitting at a folding table about 15 feet in front of the band, smiling like they sounded great. They did not. About 500 there when they began. After four songs less than half that. But the bass kept on pumping and the sound guy kept on smiling. We left after 20 minutes.
Yup, the vast majority of small- to medium- size shows I go to have been absolutely ear-splitting.
The last two large shows I went to (Green Day at an arena and Primus at a large amphitheater, respectively), I didn't even have to wear earplugs.
Between this and the increasing prevalence of crowd-killing at shows across genres, I'm starting to feel like I'm too old to enjoy live music (I'm 28)
The last two large shows I went to (Green Day at an arena and Primus at a large amphitheater, respectively), I didn't even have to wear earplugs.
Between this and the increasing prevalence of crowd-killing at shows across genres, I'm starting to feel like I'm too old to enjoy live music (I'm 28)
Pete Townshend and Phil Collins have admitted they've lost a good percentage of their hearing due to concerts. Wife and I saw Eric Clapton a number of years ago. The volume towards the end was punishing. I think EC and band weren't even aware of the painful levels the idiot sound engineers were pumping at the audience.
Saw Sir Elton John in Portland OR. The volume was perfect all night. He riled up the audience with his skills, showmanship, and passion. And guess what-- when we left our ears weren't ringing! I remember seeing Rush in the late 80's when they were still pretty hard core. The floor volume wasn't terribly loud. Maybe a bit too loud at the end, but not punishing. What got me was a couple times Geddy went to talk to Alex during a song and they weren't shouting into each others' ears. There again, the musicianship and showmanship made the show, not volume. And Geddy's tone was sweet out front.
Saw Sir Elton John in Portland OR. The volume was perfect all night. He riled up the audience with his skills, showmanship, and passion. And guess what-- when we left our ears weren't ringing! I remember seeing Rush in the late 80's when they were still pretty hard core. The floor volume wasn't terribly loud. Maybe a bit too loud at the end, but not punishing. What got me was a couple times Geddy went to talk to Alex during a song and they weren't shouting into each others' ears. There again, the musicianship and showmanship made the show, not volume. And Geddy's tone was sweet out front.
Miracles do happen! Has this happened since then?
The band I'm in had a very loud stage volume but our FOH system is clean and my pastor (an old rock-n-roller and bassist himself) likes to 'wear' the sound so it's loud - but sounds good.
Raz
Thankfully my current band plays at a reasonable volume, but my word as a performer in clubs is "no one is going to leave if the band's volume is too low, but if it's too loud you may lose some of the crowd." Also, depending on the age of the audience - how you play tunes can make a difference in perceived loudness, meaning you can play rock tunes for an older (quieter) audience, but if the bass drum sounds like a bomb going off on every hit and the guitar player has a biting/shrill distortion and shreds on the leads then it will sound too loud.
The loud concerts and shows was covered recently on TB and yes loud bass drums and subs really make the mix too murky to discern much and kills the enjoyment of a show.
You'd think
- I'd say more but we have that "special" rule in this particular subforum.For an acoustic gig it is overkill, sure. But anything electric I expect to physically feel the low end. When its done correctly you can get this and still have a clear mix. These preferences are subjective, and I've notice to a certain degree, generational.
To me I think big shows in the last 10 years have been using less low end but that is just me.
I dunno, I like to at least 'feel' the low end some. It's what makes people move their feet. I was a foh for a medium sized outfit for a few years and if people couldn't feel it at all they didn't get into it. Shrill, painful high frequencies were always the biggest complaint, and there are always too many of them.
At a pub i used to manage we had a nationally well known band playing. They had a reputation for being pretty loud but the volume was just ridiculous. To give some perspective, I was a roadie for one of Australia's best known bands in the 80's who were known as one of the loudest acts in the country in their prime, but they rarely played in a medium sized room at anywhere near this volume. I had to refund at least a dozen people after the first few songs and probably half the audience went into another part of the pub to get away from the volume.
I never say anything to any sound guy unless I know them personally but this one time I had to break that rule. When I asked him if he could bring it down a bit he simply muted every channel except the vocals, kick and snare and shrugged as if to say "sorry, can't do a thing" ...... and the volume basically didn't change. It was just their stage sound that was so stupidly loud.
I never say anything to any sound guy unless I know them personally but this one time I had to break that rule. When I asked him if he could bring it down a bit he simply muted every channel except the vocals, kick and snare and shrugged as if to say "sorry, can't do a thing" ...... and the volume basically didn't change. It was just their stage sound that was so stupidly loud.
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I love it loud but it shoukd be mixed well.
Some of these shows it seems like the lead guitarist cranks his amp so then the other guitarist and bassist have to crank their volume, and it just adds up until it's one great big wall of nothing
I've been managing venues for over 20 years now and on very rare occasions have asked an act to bring it up a little. On many occasions i've had to ask them to bring it down. Those that didn't do so enough, and immediately, never got another booking.
