Live Sound Problems

[RoadRanger]

You just need 3 more 8X10's and another SVT head !

Actually a second cab makes quite a difference with an SVT. Maybe have a tech check the head over to make sure it's 100% ? Oh, and as you are running a jazz bass make sure you're NOT dimeing both pickups, back one or the other off a bit to not short out the mids.

 

[wyleeboxer]

Never. It's just our stage sound. Everyone is turning up so they can hear themselves.

Everyone turning up and up to hear themselves is an amateur move and you sound like you need to get out asap.. or put earplugs in and play with this band until you find another band, hopefully soon. I've had to grin a bear it in some bands to keep my chops up but I was looking elsewhere quick!

 

[dreamadream99]

The only way to overcome this...is go so massive with your equipment and volume the other members can't hear themselves And they ask you to turn down.

Opposite advice. Next practice, have everyone start at a soft enough volume to hear the vocals acoustically. Then when the guitar gets there and plays his usual thunderous volume, he can't hear anyone else, and asks you all to turn up. Don't do it. He will have no choice but to turn down, unless he is fine with not hearing anyone else.

 

[MDBass]

Never. It's just our stage sound. Everyone is turning up so they can hear themselves.

Your stage sound is part of what the audience hears, and frequently a rather large part, unless the venues you're playing are all multi-thousand seat theaters and larger.

Great bands all blend well with "just their stage sound".

Due to the way sound functions guitar amps are very directional, and when your stage volume is that loud the FOH engineer will have to pull most or all of the guitars out of the mains in a 500 person capacity or smaller room: that means he'll be deafeningly loud to everyone standing directly in front of his amp and inaudible to everyone who isn't.

Adding more gear isn't the solution to your problem.

Thank you.

He was being facetious.

 

[carldogs]

I feel your pain, fortunately my present band does work together to sound balanced and give space. As has been said it's pointless fighting for the low end if it is totally swamped, mids are your friend around the 500 800 Hz mark to help you cut through a bit. Try running just one pickup on the bass either front or back and see if that Helps, to much bass on electronic drums can also be a nightmare. The only real solution is everyone working together and respecting arrangements and sonic space, as long as one member wants to sound like the whole band on their own it's a battle. If you really need to get their attention then next practice push your mids crank your volume and play your parts as high as you can like as high above the 12 th fret as you can, when asked what you are doing gently explain that the bottom end has been completely filled by guitar, drums, keys leaving you to cover the higher register, someone has to do it. Out of pure frustration i did this once it took the guitarst about 3 songs to notice with a sulky attitude he actually took some of the bass off. I wish you luck in getting this sorted especially if you enjoy the people in your band.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

You could refuse to play in a band where one of the members insists on sounding like s**t. This is the second thread in a couple days I've seen of people playing an SVT and 810 and not being heard. That's absurd. And as others have mentioned, I hope you're wearing earplugs. You could try boosting highs and mids to get out of the traditional bass space, maybe an OD or fuzz effect. but I would have left the project long ago myself.

 

[Honch]

As if the dial was a clock. Appreciate your reply. As stated in the OP telling guitarist anything is not an option. Is there anything that I can re: my setup...

Then you have no means to get great sound at all. Or even slightly better. It will only be worse. On any venue. Then you should move on. Period. I have yet to experience this, haven't seen/hear one instance of it as of yet, and I am not expecting to see it anytime soon. And I will not try to wait for it to happen.

You should go for rented PA with a FOH soundman. I even know a soundman who - during the break between soundcheck and gig - pulled two power tubes out of the gtrds Marshall stack, without telling him. It had four. Not every Marshall can take this, but he knew. When the gtrd came back, he cranked the volume, but couldn't tell the diff, as the FOH turned it up louder in the monitors, as he couldn't do if it had all tubes in at 100W. He put it back later on without telling him.

If everybody else has to adapt to the guitarist loudness but it's not mutual, it's time to leave. Although he has the upper hand providing PA and may provide rehearsal space to you all at no or little cost, it's mostly THAT he uses an excuse so he can keep doing it. I wouldn't even join such a band in the first place.

This is how you set volume and great sound of any PA at any gig, especially if you own your own PA and has consistency from gig to gig, especially since you have electronic drums, and VOCALS:

1. Let the lead vocalist sing into the mic. As loud and as soft as possible.
2. Turn it up just so it feeds back and then back off just below feedback level. Set the max volume without feedback.
3. The resulting volume and loudness is the one that should be the yardstick for the rest of the band to adapt to. And make concessions and compromise to. Being able to work mutually with sound levels. If anyone in the band doesn't comply to this, well, in my book, they have no place in any band at all, really. They can start out as a solo act performing solo on stage, where the only instrument is their own, churning out riffs at whatever level they want. Doesn't even need any PA. And instrumental too, no vocals at all.

I've always wondered this, whenever playing open mic jam, rehearsal space jams, and theres a plethora of different amps. If someone can't play louder, the band members and audience members always go "we can't hear you, turn it up!". Instead of telling all others to turn it down because one person is already at maximum levels, especially singers. This beats me why there's always people asking ONE person to turn up - regardless of that they can't - instead of asking the rest to turn down so the weakest volume gets a chance to be heard. This beats me. And has been going on for ages without anything really happening. No one has never ever learned anything from this. IME.

- - - - - -

EDIT: And seriously, as others have already said: Ampeg SVT 810 and not getting heard? Is this a put on or what? I don't even want to attend any concert of your band, in spite of it being outdoor festival open field.

 

[Honch]

OP, if not anyone in your band is wearing earplugs, and thus all will have severe hearing damage anyway, how will you ever be able to dial in something of a sound anyway, good or not, since your hearing is ruined? Do you play for hearing disabled persons in the audience only?

I have experienced several. And the more hearing damage they have (gtrds especially) they seem eager to turn it up too loud. It goes hand in hand you know. An evil roundabout. Because of your hearing damage you turn up so you can hear all frequencies of yourself and then the next time, your high end is gone in the hair cells of the cochlea and you have to turn that one up even more.

Get it?

And after all your explanations on what settings you got, and what your amp is and what gtrd you have, you actually, in the end ONLY seriously asks us if "will a lighter gauge string set help"?

Really? Seriously? Can't really think of that this is nothing but a prank, you're pulling our legs. If not, you have to go back and woodshed and learn something about sound engineering, and especially what string gauges means/does to any bass/guitar. You're not mature enough to go on stage as of yet. And that I mean seriously, and not any kind of friendly banter or tounge in cheek.

Move this to Bass Humor before it's too late.

 

[Honch]

Due to the way sound functions guitar amps are very directional, and when your stage volume is that loud the FOH engineer will have to pull most or all of the guitars out of the mains in a 500 person capacity or smaller room: that means he'll be deafeningly loud to everyone standing directly in front of his amp and inaudible to everyone who isn't.

Yes, it's called "the beam" and is why manfacturers releases different product to block this beam. BeamBlockers, Tone-Bras, and especially the latest invention Deeflexx, just a plastic angled shield in front of the speaker. No wonder everyone wants to turn up, since all amps resides on the floor and ear levels are not at all in a 90 degree angle of the speaker. But sure enough the audience down from the stage are in the death ray area. And gtrds doesn't want to raise the amp physically to ear level because then they "loose" bottom. Hey, the bass player takes cares of the bottom. Not the gtrds.

The beam occurs in that piercing frequency range. 3k to 4k. And above. But as it is, all these beamblockers and Deeflexxes impose phase artifacts as it is. Nothing without nothing. There's nothing like a free lunch. Caveats, catches, and tradeoffs in everything.

Beats me.

 

[Honch]

The only solution I can think of is get one of these,
Kinetic Transfer Platform Tactile Monitor:

 

[squidtastic]

I am standing about 4 feet in front of my amp... If I move any further, I can't hear at all.

At some point, you have to understand that you run out of options. With your setup and your volume, you have virtually nothing else you can do short of what you say is not an option (telling git to turn down). My band occasionally gets too loud, and if it happens mid-song, I'll boost my low mids. But that's always temporary, and when it's not, I tell whomever it is (usually drummer) to play more quietly. There's no magic here -- you're running into a wall, and the physics of sound just is what it is.

 

[hrodbert696]

Not to make you feel bad, OP, but I have played in several rock and roll cover bands with excellent guitarists and never had a problem hearing myself in small to medium venues with 200 watts through a 2x10. The good ones know how to keep their volume under control.

I do notice that if your bass EQ is set at 9:00 or so, that's pretty low, and the bass frequency is your fundamental, where the bulk of your volume is. Unless you're trying to sound like Jaco, I would bring that back in. My own default EQ is about 7-7-4 (out of 10, bass-mids-highs), that is about 1:00-1:00-11:00 or so.

But if your guitarist insists on cranking up his overall volume and boosting his lows, as others have said, you're sunk anyway. If him turning down isn't an option, find someone else to play with.

 

[Kmonk]

If you have your volume at max and still can't hear yourself, you must tell the guitarist to turn down. A loud band will drive people out of a venue faster than a bad band playing at an acceptable volume will. You are going to suffer permanent hearing damage, your amp is working too hard, your mix will sound like crap, etc. If the guitarist won't turn down, I would suggest finding another band.

 

[bass71]

Bass at 9.5 what? Out of 10? Pull that way back to 5 and start there. Then, tell the guitarist he can be loud, but take the low end out, since the keys are already stepping on your end of the spectrum with him(the guitar).

This ++++1.
Was invited the other day to a studio to see the "house band". Jeez some guys just dont get it. Both guitars had there Les Paul bass settings on 10!!....mush city, inaudible bass guitar and head aches all round. I tried to suggest the alternative but new I had to politely leave.

 

[sedan_dad]

Being this loud, do you guys play out much? I'd guess not.

 

[lfmn16]

Hi,
He is very loud (lots of low end.) and isn't a person who likes being told that he is loud.

Hi,
Hopefully, your suggestions/tips will not include answers suggesting that the guitar player to turn down.

He's too loud and you don't want to be told he needs to turn down?

There is not other cure for someone that plays too loud. End of story.

 

[mikeyjm2]

There are no winners in a volume war.

 

[Oddly]

If telling the guitarist to turn down when he is too loud is not an option, your next option is to leave. Sorry, some BS is not worth putting up with.

Another vote for this. For the sake of your sanity and your ears just find another band...or reform this one with a guitarist who knows what he's doing in a band situation.

 

[Medicine Man]

My last guitarist would crank a 100 watt mesa through a 4x12 for tiny bar gigs. He told me that instruments belonging in eq band was bs, and no professionals believe in it. He refused to turn down or moderate his eq in any way, even after a band intervention . Now we have a new guitarist, just sayin.

 

[BassLover668]

Play flute,or change guitarrist .