Local Live Music Is Dead

[EastCoastThump]

Clubs are paying about what they paid 30 years ago, which is to say bands are making a lot less in real dollars. I cut my teeth playing in the 80s and 90s, mostly based out of college towns. Now, my musical home base is another college town. I'd say that the number of good venues for live bands has been dwindling.

Certainly, there are fewer venues for unseasoned bands than there were in the salad days. It also seems that the clubs that want to book mid-tier touring acts have a tough time now.

The couple bits of good news? At least where I am now, the odds of seeing a weak band at a club are pretty low, compared to when I was a kid. The venues that treat the musicians well tend to be booked up with a pretty high level of talent.

Also, at least in this part of the east coast, tight GB bands can still do very well on a calendar of weddings, festivals, and events.

 

[Marial]

One thing I've gleaned from this forum over the years is that it's hard to make sweeping statements about local live music. in the US at least, the music scene varies by region. In the Seattle/Portland area the local live muisc (especially for original music) - I'd describe as thriving -musically. Money-wise, less so for most.

Very true. Not much money for the musicians, but plenty of venues, plenty of bands, and plenty of people coming out to see them.

 

[aborgman]

You don't seem very familiar with the average club owner out there.

No, I'm all TOO familiar with the average club owner.

Your posts amount to finger pointing, which may be correct; but explaining the situation does not improve it. The AVERAGE club owner relies on the bands to come to them. You may be right as rain that they should put more effort in, but that simply does not line up with reality, IME.

The average club owner is a drunk that can't return phone calls, is constantly behind on his bills, and has probably a 50% chance they're using the business to either launder money or as some other sort of tax dodge...

I understand that the status quo is "running a business like you have no idea how to run a business" - but lets not pretend they aren't responsible for that decision on how to run their business.

 

[the yeti]

haha!!

while i was making a sort of play on words, otherwise i was completely serious. maybe if bands approached this thinking "what do i need to play to entertain people in this market?" they would find more success. selling out? maybe. hopefully.

 

[wilberthenry]

I live in southwest Virginia and bands struggle here. There are some great original bands, but they tend to be overbooked in a pretty anemic small town scene. There is a local band called the Alliens that kills it, but people can see them several times a month and they end up getting taken for granted. In a small scene this seems to be more of a problem than an Austin or NYC. Pay here sucks too, but at least the cost of living is low.

 

[Altitude]

Certainly, the issue of how much gigs pay is related, but it's a symptom as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is that nobody is coming out to see live music. Of course, if nobody is there, there's no money there either and the pay sucks by result.

I loved the 1992 movie "Singles" and one of my favorite scenes is Invalid Link Removed, where Campbell Scott and Kyra Sedgwick meet for the first time. This is a movie, so maybe things weren't like this even as late as 1992 - but notice how many people are in the bar watching a young Alice In Chains play.

These are normal people, a cross section, who came from their office jobs and decided to do this on a Friday, versus a DJ or anything else. These aren't Jerry Cantrell's parents and buddies - it's a bar packed with people digging the music. This is what I don't see happening, even for established bands.

 

[bucephylus]

No, I'm all TOO familiar with the average club owner.



The average club owner is a drunk that can't return phone calls, is constantly behind on his bills, and has probably a 50% chance they're using the business to either launder money or as some other sort of tax dodge...

I understand that the status quo is "running a business like you have no idea how to run a business" - but lets not pretend they aren't responsible for that decision on how to run their business.

Totally agree. But, no way anyone is going to change that anytime soon; that was the only point I was trying to make. The stupid test you have to take before becoming a club owner is highly selective.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Well ... rock is almost dead, pop is very computerized ( maybe note a word but ... you get the idea ), so if you really want live music by real musician, jazz and classical music is almost the only ressort of good musician that worked hard to be that good.

Metal is fun for the ambiance because live it is too loud to even listen.

 

[Sixpack324]

Oh how I wish that were generally true.

Around here, we've gotten to the point where a lot of venues expect cover bands to bring 50 people.

Cover bands are expected to bring a following here too, but, even if they don't, the bar will be full of 'regulars'.

I agree, particularly because the increased availablity of music has cheapened it. Some still truly appreciate the live experience, but for most, unless it's a large concert "experience", there's little appreciation. 100 years ago if you wanted music in your home you had to make it on your piano or other instrument. Now there are unlimited tunes in your car, phone or whatever. Music is piped into most stores and many restaurants and backs most film and TV. IMO the average person (ie not a music fanatic) is OD'ed on tunes and no longer sees live music as "bonus" entertainment.

You make a valid point. Music is evolving and I guess we, as live performance musicians have to find a way to evolve with it.

 

[Syco_bass]

Well ... rock is almost dead, pop is very computerized ( maybe note a word but ... you get the idea ), so if you really want live music by real musician, jazz and classical music is almost the only ressort of good musician that worked hard to be that good.

Metal is fun for the ambiance because live it is too loud to even listen.

Wow......... I guess 90% of us don't count. Sorry, but I play 6 to 8 shows per month in packed bars and nearly sold out venues but only play Country, Classic Rock, old R&B, Motown and Blues. I have never enjoyed listening to jazz or classical music and I don't enjoy playing it. So, I must not be a real musician? Mom and Dad are gonna be pissed that they spent all that money on lessons. Lmfao. Sorry, I guess I just don't see your point.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Also ... don't know for you but I don't see the interess of seeing a cover band who will play Mustang Sally for the 10 000th time ...

When I look into thread of set list ... it is almost always music from 60 to 80 ... which sound very outdated. Maybe trying music from now ???

I live in Quebec/Quebec in Canada ... here live music is completly dead, no matter the style of music. There is one bar club that like live music but ... they hire only accoustic guitar player who also sing ... so they do cover of popular song and people in the bar sing along. Every "performer" do music for maybe 30 min max and another take the place for maybe 4 hours.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Wow......... I guess 90% of us don't count. Sorry, but I play 6 to 8 shows per month in packed bars and nearly sold out venues but only play Country, Classic Rock, old R&B, Motown and Blues. I have never enjoyed listening to jazz or classical music and I don't enjoy playing it. So, I must not be a real musician? Mom and Dad are gonna be pissed that they spent all that money on lessons. Lmfao. Sorry, I guess I just don't see your point.

Because those kind of music are easily replicable with a computer and no one will hear the difference.

To me if you can pull it off with a computer and it will be convincing and people don,t hear any difference between the computer and real people well that music just doesn't have much value to play live. Why bother learning them, work on your technic etc if the computer can reproduce it better than you or equal ???

Classical music and jazz just can't be reproduce by a computer like a real musician.

 

[pklima]

Very, very interesting thread. Disclaimer: I'm in Eastern Europe, the following may or may not apply where you are.

Good wedding bands around here are booked solid through this season and have some weekends booked for 2013 already. Corporate parties, product launches etc. seem to be more affected by competition from DJs, though.

Playing clubs 6 nights a week will probably pay you less than unskilled manual labor. If you can play DB, folk music for tourists (especially klezmer) will get you 2-3 times as much and all the work you want, but it's still not great money.

Very telling: about a year ago one of my former bandmates got a weekly DJ gig with no equipment of his own and minimal experience. He got offered the same or a bit more than small clubs will usually pay for a full band.

There's also something we call "live acts" - a DJ plus a person or two with real instruments, often some kind of hand percussion, sax or violin. Not a lot of work in that for bassists, of course, but the DJ I mentioned above works with a violinist regularly for Balkan music nights.

if the music most bands play isn't "pop"ular that could be the problem/solution.

there's a decent music scene here i think, but there's a large college audience.

Yeah... I gotta agree here. A lot of bands that play "popular" stuff want to play classic rock, or recent pop that sounds like it could be from the 60s (CeeLo Green, Amy Winehouse, Duffy). Some will hold their nose and play some Katy Perry or Lady Gaga but try to make it rock - in other words they take a popular song and try to improve it by making it sound like some less popular songs.

I'm not sure what works but I do have a couple of things that might.

One is finding a niche where you have little or no competition. I'm having great luck with a new band which does mostly songs in Portuguese and Spanish. There's no big Latin market here and there are quite a few Latin jazz and bossa nova bands, plus a Spanish guy we know who fronts a rock band, but we're really the only Latin pop band in a city of a million people.

Another is playing some club bangers and making them as banging as you can within the limitations of "real" instruments. Sean Paul, Don Omar, Pitbull, Buraka Som Sistema... Even if you play those with a DB and a cajon, people love it. Next gig we're adding an Alexandra Stan song. So, having no sense of shame and the musical tastes of a teenage girl might be the key to survival.

 

[KJung]

I typically comment on this topic (seems to be an identical thread put up every couple of months). It is a topic that interests me as a marketing person.

As one who has been in the gigging business as a freelancer for well over 35 years now, about half that time as a full time player, I feel that being a 'gigging musician' is no longer a career choice.

Most of the younger guys (i.e., guys under 40) don't remember nor have experienced what most of us who gigged through the 60's (or in my case the mid 70's through late 80's as a full time player) did. I still have some of my gigging calendars from that time, and there were many years when I did well over 350 gigs a year (i.e., 6 nights a week club gigs that lasted literally years, combined with Sunday jazz brunches, Union green sheet jobs during the week, etc., etc.). Most of us who could play did 300+gigs a year for YEARS in a row, and the pay back then was pretty much the same as today in absolute dollars (i.e., $80-$100 a night for a steady club gig, and $150-$200 for privates. In today's dollars, that would be about $300 a night for club gigs, and $600 or so a night for casuals. Not many making that these days on a regular (i.e., 200+ gigs a year) basis.

Now, if a player is doing 100 gigs a year, they are considered 'full time'. That basically puts them below the poverty level in the US with no benefits (do the math).

So, yes, live music as a profession is pretty much dead. There are still some top players in each city making a minimal living full time, and of course, some of the older guys who are very established are still doing OK. However, if you are 21 and starting out, forget about it.

Most of this is due to the change in music and audience expectations. Nothing different or magic about it. When I was coming up and starting to play high end casuals, all you heard was the big band guys complaining about how people were idiots for paying all that money to 5 piece bands populated by guys that 'couldn't play' Sounds pretty familiar today, with those same guys playing in the old fashioned 'guitar/bass/keys/singer' bands complaining that hip hop DJ's are 'not real musicians', etc.

It is almost impossible for a traditional band to reproduce the music that younger people are used to hearing on the radio or MP3's, that have dozens of keyboard tracks, multiple drum loops, and massive overdubs. A DJ (again, these high end DJ's are every bit 'artists' IMO) can do a much better job at that.

Change is constant, and it only seems like a 'change for the worse' by those who are left behind. 30 years ago, it was thousands of horn players who became obsolete when the 'rock/pop' band thing hit with the Beatles, etc. Today, it is the typical bass/guitar/drums/keys pop bands. Not really surprising. In 20 years, something else will emerge.... probably a folk revolution again

 

[GoesThump]

Excellent post WJGreer, with lots of interesting thoughts to chew on.

Music has become more ubiquitous these days, which is ironically reducing its appeal.

This is not ironic at all. Any commodity that becomes ubiquitous gets cheaper.

One could (and many authors have) argue that recorded music has been killing live music for well over a century now. The rich guy doesn't have to pay someone to play the Goldberg variations to cure insomnia anymore - a recording will do it instead.

In one of his books, R. Murray Schafer makes a similar point about the ubiquity of music cheapening it. ("The Tuning of the World", I think.) How often did you hear Beethoven in 1806? Not too often. It meant something when you did get to hear it.


GT

 

[geoff_in_nc]

A DJ (again, these high end DJ's are every bit 'artists' IMO)...

I'm not disagreeing that DJ's can be artists, but in my mind the ones spinning records for a party, and being able to mix from song to song aren't artists, they're technicians. Then again you can say the same thing about most all people who play musical instruments. The artists (again... in my mind, and my opinion) are the ones "playing" and creating with the turntables. Listen to Sugar Craft by Medeski Martin & Wood. DJ Logic does some things that I (being relatively uninitiated into the world of turntabling) think are just stellar. This is playing an instrument to me, and merits the term artistry. Things move forward and evolve. Just because a turntable doesn't have strings or reeds or whatever doesn't make it NOT an instrument. Instrumentation evolves. How many lute players do you seen in bands these days? (Outside RenFaires of course)

Change is constant, and it only seems like a 'change for the worse' by those who are left behind.

I'm going to steal this if you don't mind... succinct and spot on.

In 20 years, something else will emerge.... probably a folk revolution again

I don't think it will take 20 years... with the speed that things move in this interwebz age, I think it will come sooner. But I agree with the premise that a revolution will occur.

 

[mcblahflooper94]

Art is dead.

(period). The only thing keeping it alive is Foo Fighters.

 

[RedLeg]

Live music is alive and well in Germany and Japan. I lived in both places and they love live music. In germany, they use a DJ and a live band in a beer tent. In Japan some open mic sessions have regulars that get a cut of the bar. On new Years gigs in germany I could easily expect 250 euro for 2 45 min sets. In Japan I get $125 for (2) 45 min sets ($225 for 3) playing salsa. We (Americans) have short attention spans and lost our ability to dance to live music. Because we can NEVER forget that music makes people moove and groove.

 

[KJung]

I'm not disagreeing that DJ's can be artists, but in my mind the ones spinning records for a party, and being able to mix from song to song aren't artists, they're technicians. Then again you can say the same thing about most all people who play musical instruments. The artists (again... in my mind, and my opinion) are the ones "playing" and creating with the turntables. Listen to Sugar Craft by Medeski Martin & Wood. DJ Logic does some things that I (being relatively uninitiated into the world of turntabling) think are just stellar. This is playing an instrument to me, and merits the term artistry. Things move forward and evolve. Just because a turntable doesn't have strings or reeds or whatever doesn't make it NOT an instrument. Instrumentation evolves. How many lute players do you seen in bands these days? (Outside RenFaires of course)

+1 It is that level of DJ that I am talking about. I would guess that most people over 30 have never experienced seeing a DJ of this level perform.

It becomes very clear when you perform at a large event that has a DJ (again, hi end hip hop guy) and a top quality band. The DJ can just light up the room like no band can. And, as you point out, the wonderful mixes, quick cuts, video components, and other things that these DJ's bring to the party, combined with usually better sound out in the room due to the more processed sound source, just seems to be more in line with what the typical 30 and under customer is used to experiencing.

The other thing that is happening is that as the pay and opportunities for professional players to get club gigs declines, more and more clubs are using very cheap 'weekend warrior' bands who have limited, tired, out of date song lists, and at best, mediocre players, which is part of the ugly circulatity of declining opportunities resulting in declining quality which reinforces the impression that 'live music sucks' with many younger customers.

 

[pklima]

It is almost impossible for a traditional band to reproduce the music that younger people are used to hearing on the radio or MP3's, that have dozens of keyboard tracks, multiple drum loops, and massive overdubs. A DJ (again, these high end DJ's are every bit 'artists' IMO) can do a much better job at that.

Sure, a DJ will sound better. We can still do something recognizable, along the lines of a piano reduction of a symphony. There's plenty of modern stuff that doesn't really have all that many instrumental layers anyway, if you avoid "electronic music for alternative white people". Plus we are more visible and, for lack of a better term, more human. That's our advantage. It's not hopeless.

Also, when rappers put on a really, really big show they'll sometimes use a live band. Perhaps that's more of a status symbol than anything else, but it happens. Has anybody here done one of those gigs? This seems like a great gig, and on a less epic scale this looks great too.