Loosening Strings to Ship YOUR bass....

[MYLOWFREQ]

I always take all the strings off, and clean/oil the necks that are applicable thoroughly. Haven't had a single problem so far (23 years). I Also had an unattached j bass neck laying around for about a year put on a p bass. After adjusting the truss rod, it was fine. I understand the logic behind not removing all the strings at once though. Maybe I've been lucky

 

[stringthrough]

If they had been mishandled while not under over 100 ft/lbs of tension, they might not have broken.

More important than the tension generated by the strings is the torque generated by the strings. Since the tension they generate runs nearly parallel with the length of the neck (where it can resist the most force) as opposed to more perpendicular to the neck, string compression is not in any way a major contributor to neck or headstock breakage. Not saying it can never happen, just that on the very case it does the neck would have to have been highly susceptible in the first place, i.e. rotting, having hairline crack(s).

 

[40Hz]

This is why they disconnect the cable anchors on the Marin side of the Golden Gate Bridge during high winds. Otherwise the tension on the tower would cause it to collapse.

Interesting. (Confession: I'm fascinated by the engineering used in large bridges.) Question: what would happen if they left those same anchors disconnected during regular wind conditions? Would a tower then collapse in their absence? Anyone? Buler? Anyone?

It's my understanding that many of the newest suspension bridges are now continuously and automatically adjusting the tensions on their cables.

Maybe it's more the Golden Gate is just an antiquated design, hence the need for bridge crew heroics in the event of a wind storm ?

 

[rogerbmiller]

A sample size as small as 250, or even 400 shipments, isn't sufficient to establish correlation between string tension and something as rare as a neck breaking during shipping.

You're attribiting the fact that none of your shipments have experienced neck breakage to the fact you always ship instruments detuned. But there's nothing in what you've done to establish they're related so far. Your sample is too small.

Your opinion is using logic similiar to the thinking of the guy who always kept a mongoose in his city penthouse - to keep the cobras away. When friends pointed out there were no wild cobras in the city, the man with the mongoose smiled and exclaimed "Really? Wow! This little mongoose is even more effective than I thought it would be!"

It's working great for me and there is no harm in doing so so ima keep on keepin on. I really don't feel as strongly about this as so many here obviously do. But this is what I learned to do and it certainly doesn't have negative effects. Never has. Can you or any of the others with a strong sense of conviction about the topic demonstrate otherwise?

And I have to agree to disagree about 250 or 400 shipments being a small sample. How many have you shipped?

 

[Plutonium244]

I can't vouch for the "proper" approach, but when I change my strings, I do it one at a time so I don't remove all four at once. Maybe this doesn't help, but "stability" of tension could not possibly hurt. As far as shipping, I like to tune them down just the slightest amount-- say, a half-step. It keeps approximately correct tension (vs. a LOT of slack) but allows for a slight change in ambient conditions. After all, no one ever warped a neck by going out of tune at a gig; therefore this slight de-tune should not pose any problems either.

Is this "right"? Is this proper? I have no clue, but-- I have never had any kind of neck/truss issue in any bass, in 35+ years of doing it this way. So I will continue.

 

[Ric5]

Basses are designed to be shipped in tune.

If you must detune then 1/2 or 1 step is fine.

 

[Ric5]

I can't vouch for the "proper" approach, but when I change my strings, I do it one at a time so I don't remove all four at once. Maybe this doesn't help, but "stability" of tension could not possibly hurt. As far as shipping, I like to tune them down just the slightest amount-- say, a half-step. It keeps approximately correct tension (vs. a LOT of slack) but allows for a slight change in ambient conditions. After all, no one ever warped a neck by going out of tune at a gig; therefore this slight de-tune should not pose any problems either.

Is this "right"? Is this proper? I have no clue, but-- I have never had any kind of neck/truss issue in any bass, in 35+ years of doing it this way. So I will continue.

You will not hurt your bass neck by taking off all the strings when restringing it ... and if you own a bass that is that fragile, then I suggest you go and buy another.


(content fixed)

 

[Plutonium244]

You will hurt your bass neck by taking off all the strings when restringing it ... and if you own a bass that is that fragile, then I suggest you go and buy another.

Is the word "not" missing from your post, or are you replying to someone else?

 

[stacker]

You will hurt your bass neck by taking off all the strings when restringing it ...

And how will one do that, pray tell??

 

[stacker]

You will not hurt your bass neck by taking off all the strings when restringing it ... and if you own a bass that is that fragile, then I suggest you go and buy another.

I've had a bass sitting stringless in my loft for the past month. Sweet FA wrong with its neck; dead straight.

 

[Ric5]

Is the word "not" missing from your post, or are you replying to someone else?

hahaha


Thanks ...


bad typing



Original post now fixed

 

[Plutonium244]

hahaha


Thanks ...


bad typing

No worries. I am perhaps certifiably the most prone to typos of anyone on TB.

I have taken all strings off a neck to clean it or work on it, and never had one damaged doing that, either... but it's not about "damaging" a neck. All things considered I'd rather not have to adjust the truss rod when I change my strings, which realistically is worst thing that could happen, not "damage". Taking all tension off can, IMO, require a truss adjustment when restringing, potentially (although very rarely, in my case). I just want fresh strings so I mess with as little stuff as possible to achieve my modest goal.

 

[BassManKK]

If it makes you feel better to de-tune to ship, so be it. There are more important things to concern ones self with such as what 115 to go with my 410.

or "did it ship with a box?"

 

[MultiScaleMale]

They are folks who've had Gibson/Epiphone headstocks snapped right off in flight, due to string tension.
When the instrument goes into the hold, it's not climate controlled. Steel strings shrink faster than wood, causing extra tension, and fast.

These weak head stocks were in hard cases that were stood on end and fell over. Instantly upon hitting the floor, all momentum was transferred to the last thing that can move, the headstock. Snap! Never travel with a vintage style hard case. They don't protect the headstock at all.

 

[40Hz]

It's working great for me and there is no harm in doing so so ima keep on keepin on. I really don't feel as strongly about this as so many here obviously do. But this is what I learned to do and it certainly doesn't have negative effects. Never has. Can you or any of the others with a strong sense of conviction about the topic demonstrate otherwise?

And I have to agree to disagree about 250 or 400 shipments being a small sample. How many have you shipped?

I don't personally have a strong sense of conviction on the subject. And for the record, I usually detune a quarter of a turn when I ship something for no good reason other than I was always told to do so and it's now a habit.

But I make no representations either.

To your point, it appears to do no harm, so sure - why not?

My only point was that 250 damage free shipments with detuned strings doesn't establish the fact that detuning was a contributing factor in why they all arrived at their destination undamaged. That's all.

And who knows? Maybe that guy in the story's mongoose really is what's keeping the cobras away from the city he lives in. But it hasn't been established. The absence of snakes - and the presence of a mongoose within the city - doesn't establish cause and effect.

Science doesn't attempt to prove something isn't. Smart move on science's part since you can't logically prove a negative.

So when somebody says "there ain't no such thing as ghosts," the burden of proof falls on the people who insist there are. In science, the absence of proof that something exists means it does not exist, until positively proven otherwise.

 

[Ric5]

No worries. I am perhaps certifiably the most prone to typos of anyone on TB.

I have taken all strings off a neck to clean it or work on it, and never had one damaged doing that, either... but it's not about "damaging" a neck. All things considered I'd rather not have to adjust the truss rod when I change my strings, which realistically is worst thing that could happen, not "damage". Taking all tension off can, IMO, require a truss adjustment when restringing, potentially (although very rarely, in my case). I just want fresh strings so I mess with as little stuff as possible to achieve my modest goal.

I also have a workshop and a bass neck can sit for a while without strings and there is no harm ...

 

[Gard]

And I have to agree to disagree about 250 or 400 shipments being a small sample. How many have you shipped?

OK, you want to go there?

I worked at Bass Central for 5 years, sending and receiving basses at the clip of a conservative average of 3 per day, 5 days per week. So, the math here would be 3 (basses per day rec'd or shipped) x 5 (days per week) x 260 (weeks per year, times 5) which comes out to 3900 basses. Every single one, both incoming and outgoing, tuned to standard pitch.

I have now worked at Roscoe Guitars for 11.5 years. We ship an average of 1 instrument per day. So, 5 instruments per week multiplied by 598 weeks is 2990 basses.

That adds up to (approximately) 6890 bass guitars that I have either shipped or received since about 2000. I'll give myself the benefit of the doubt and estimate that in reality it's really well in excess of 7K; but even if I have grossly overestimated the number, and you knock of 20% of that number, it is 5512 instruments, or more than 10 times your upper estimate of 400 shipped. I would posit my sample size is truly significant. Yours, while not utterly insignificant, is not really enough of a sample size.

Never have I, or anyone at Bass Central, here at Roscoe Guitars, at any manufacturer I am aware of (I am actually on exceptionally friendly terms with pretty much everyone in the industry - we are not nearly as competitive as you might think. ) have ever had a single example of shipping damage due to shipment with the strings tuned to standard pitch. Due to mishandling and less than sufficient packaging certainly, but not tuning to pitch.

I'm really not picking on you, I'm merely trying to point out that your position is not supported by any actual statistical evidence - only anecdotal evidence, with no control. I can cite controls, we receive repairs here with the strings detuned, and when I worked at Bass Central, we received returns and trades with the strings detuned, and I have indeed seen issues, not many truly bad ones (without an actual full log, it's impossible to be accurate to a decimal point, but a quick back of the envelope scribbled calculation would put it at between 1 in 12 and 1 and 15 - not awful, but worrisome) , but far more than the zero issues that I have seen from an instrument being shipped with the strings at standard tuning tension. ALL of them required far more attention to return to proper playing condition than was reasonable, based on the fact that leaving them at standard pitch typically meant the instrument played very close to "perfect" when removed from packaging.

Short version of the entire discussion is this: DON'T DETUNE YOUR STRINGS WHEN YOU SHIP.

 

[rogerbmiller]

OK, you want to go there?

I worked at Bass Central for 5 years, sending and receiving basses at the clip of a conservative average of 3 per day, 5 days per week. So, the math here would be 3 (basses per day rec'd or shipped) x 5 (days per week) x 260 (weeks per year, times 5) which comes out to 3900 basses. Every single one, both incoming and outgoing, tuned to standard pitch.

I have now worked at Roscoe Guitars for 11.5 years. We ship an average of 1 instrument per day. So, 5 instruments per week multiplied by 598 weeks is 2990 basses.

That adds up to (approximately) 6890 bass guitars that I have either shipped or received since about 2000. I'll give myself the benefit of the doubt and estimate that in reality it's really well in excess of 7K; but even if I have grossly overestimated the number, and you knock of 20% of that number, it is 5512 instruments, or more than 10 times your upper estimate of 400 shipped. I would posit my sample size is truly significant. Yours, while not utterly insignificant, is not really enough of a sample size.

Never have I, or anyone at Bass Central, here at Roscoe Guitars, at any manufacturer I am aware of (I am actually on exceptionally friendly terms with pretty much everyone in the industry - we are not nearly as competitive as you might think. ) have ever had a single example of shipping damage due to shipment with the strings tuned to standard pitch. Due to mishandling and less than sufficient packaging certainly, but not tuning to pitch.

I'm really not picking on you, I'm merely trying to point out that your position is not supported by any actual statistical evidence - only anecdotal evidence, with no control. I can cite controls, we receive repairs here with the strings detuned, and when I worked at Bass Central, we received returns and trades with the strings detuned, and I have indeed seen issues, not many truly bad ones (without an actual full log, it's impossible to be accurate to a decimal point, but a quick back of the envelope scribbled calculation would put it at between 1 in 12 and 1 and 15 - not awful, but worrisome) , but far more than the zero issues that I have seen from an instrument being shipped with the strings at standard tuning tension. ALL of them required far more attention to return to proper playing condition than was reasonable, based on the fact that leaving them at standard pitch typically meant the instrument played very close to "perfect" when removed from packaging.

Short version of the entire discussion is this: DON'T DETUNE YOUR STRINGS WHEN YOU SHIP.

How many necks broke in shipping?

 

[mapleglo]

DON'T DETUNE YOUR STRINGS WHEN YOU SHIP.

This ^

 

[Gard]

I also have a workshop and a bass neck can sit for a while without strings and there is no harm ...

Depends on the definition of "a while". I tend to put that at between 12 and 24 hours, maximum. I prefer less than 15 minutes whenever possible.

On restringing, one at a time is being a bit overly cautious for my world, take 'em all off, clean the instrument up, restring it to pitch, and you should have a minimal amount of setup to do - if any at all.