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Loosening Strings to Ship YOUR bass....

If that slacking the strings thing is now an actual Fedex policy, I'll stop using them just on principle.:banghead:

Furthermore, the last two basses I bought both came from Sweetwater who just happen to use fedex...strings were more or less tuned to pitch on both. I wonder if major online retailers who ship more guitars in a day then even the most prolific private seller does in 6 months is somehow exempt from this silly new policy?
 
For reference, because it seems some folks are confusing back-bow with forward-bow:
image.jpeg
 
Furthermore, the last two basses I bought both came from Sweetwater who just happen to use fedex...strings were more or less tuned to pitch on both. I wonder if major online retailers who ship more guitars in a day then even the most prolific private seller does in 6 months is somehow exempt from this silly new policy?
I think this "policy" is limited to individuals who walk in the door of their local Fedex Office Depot. It appears to not apply to businesses.
 
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That supports the whole point of what everyone is saying. If you loosen the string, loosen the truss rod. If you don't loosen the truss rod, don't losses the strings (too much). Hugely different from loosening strings and not the truss rod. And the reasoning by now should be clear.

Forgive my ignorance but I am still a newbie...

if one loosens the strings before shipping but does not loosen the truss rod, can this cause permanent damage to the neck?
 
The truss rod counteracts the string tension. If you loosen the strings you will be applying a lot of back bow to the neck. Why do you think that is better than strings and truss rod both at opposing tension?

Well, because the truss rod only applies counter-bending load to the neck in the zone from about the 1st fret to around the 14th. The truss rod applies no load or reinforcement to the headstock or the neck/body joint. And those are the more fragile areas.

When the strings are up to full tune, they are applying compression and bending loads to the whole instrument frame, including the main length of the neck plus the headstock and the neck/body joint.

So, if you drop the bass with the strings up to tune, the headstock, neck, and neck/body joint will see the shock load in addition to their normal string load. They are added together.

With the strings slack, headstock and neck/body joint will see only the shock load.

That's the rationale for slacking the strings: To reduce the peak loads that the headstock and neck/body joint will see in the event of a high impact drop. Basic physics and engineering.

Is it necessary to slack the strings before shipping? No, obviously not, if you go by statistics. Millions of instruments are shipped up to tune and make it there safely. Fine & good. But I slack the strings before shipping my basses because it's a simple no-cost extra measure of protection against impact drops.
 
Forgive my ignorance but I am still a newbie...

if one loosens the strings before shipping but does not loosen the truss rod, can this cause permanent damage to the neck?

No. Basses can be left for years with the strings slackened and the truss rod tight, and often are. A few days aren't going to hurt it.
 
Well, because the truss rod only applies counter-bending load to the neck in the zone from about the 1st fret to around the 14th. The truss rod applies no load or reinforcement to the headstock or the neck/body joint. And those are the more fragile areas.

When the strings are up to full tune, they are applying compression and bending loads to the whole instrument frame, including the main length of the neck plus the headstock and the neck/body joint.

So, if you drop the bass with the strings up to tune, the headstock, neck, and neck/body joint will see the shock load in addition to their normal string load. They are added together.

With the strings slack, headstock and neck/body joint will see only the shock load.

That's the rationale for slacking the strings: To reduce the peak loads that the headstock and neck/body joint will see in the event of a high impact drop. Basic physics and engineering.

Is it necessary to slack the strings before shipping? No, obviously not, if you go by statistics. Millions of instruments are shipped up to tune and make it there safely. Fine & good. But I slack the strings before shipping my basses because it's a simple no-cost extra measure of protection against impact drops.

Hey Bruce

Obviously, I have a lot of respect for you and all you do. You are an accomplished luthier and I have had the pleasure of seeing your fine work first hand. We all appreciate that you take the time to give us your considered opinion and your feedback here on this forum. I must say, one of the things that prompted this thread, is that when I got my Fender Performer build from you and Keith, the strings were loosened. Never have I been shipped a bass where that was the case and it concerned me. I didn't mention it, but when I first got it - the action was really off after I tuned it up. I figured I would let it settle in before I did any set up work. I also noticed that after a couple of days or so the action seemed fine. I suspect that it had settled in on it's own - but it seems like something that - given the choice - I would rather not have put the bass through.

As far as I can see, the only way to settle this debate on your side - is to get a handful of identical basses, detune some, leave some in pitch and start dropping them. I really wish we had a sample or actual statistics on how many instruments actually sustained damages over the years - with the strings tightened that wouldn't have been damaged if the strings were loosened. Could be enlightening. It wouldn't be that hard. Buy a few SX or equivalent identical $100 basses, tighten some to pitch and loosen some - and pack them back in their original packaging. Then you can start dropping them from pre-measured heights and see which one gets damaged first. What fun. Too bad Letterman isn't still in business. He would love this.

Bruce your argument is convincing - much more convincing than anything else that has been offered up on the "loosen" side of the fence. But I can't help but think that minimizing shipping damage is all about packaging. I am thinking long and hard about how I want Keith to ship back to New York the other 8 basses I have coming.

So as the OP, I would like to entertain the concept of a little tangent here. We have kind of beat this horse to death already, and I think it's fair to say that your point of view is diametrically opposed to Gard's - who I also have the ultimate respect for.

True Confessions.

When Paul Reed Smith made PRS#7 for me in 1976, it was only the second or third bass he had ever made. He was experimenting with truss rod designs and in retrospect, Paul would tell you that his early bass truss rods simply were not heavy duty enough. I had chosen a mapleglo Rickenbacker prior to the PRS build - among about a dozen or so - and it was the one with the widest thinest neck I could find. I mean that neck is super thin! I told Paul how much I liked the Rickenbacker neck and he told me to bring it over and he would measure it up and duplicate it for me on PRS #7. So I did.

We had booked a winter tour mostly in the NorthEast in'77 and I had a huge road case made for the PRS Bass. Well the winter was brutal in the NorthEast and we were playing all the northernmost New York cities like Buffalo and Oswego and well - you get the idea. We hit a cold spell where the temperatures were at zero or well below for an extended number of days.

When the weather got cold, our stage manager started taking the tension off my bass strings before preparing it for the ride in the very cold truck. He had a physics background and this made complete sense to him due to the extreme cold temperatures. I didn't know he was doing it at first, but even if I did I probably wouldn't have argued about it - it seemed to make sense to me. But when I found out he was doing it I probably should have called Paul and asked him about it. I didn't.

Well, a couple weeks after the tour - the neck on PRS #7 began to bow and change and became unplayable. After a couple of weeks with it, Paul proclaimed the neck on the bass as unfixable, and since it was a "set" neck the bass became firewood.

Now, was the damage caused by the thinness of the neck? Was the cause the light duty truss rod Paul was using at the time? Was the cause the loosening and tightening the strings an a daily basis over many weeks? Was the cause subjecting the bass to the extreme cold temperatures and the shock of bringing it into the heat every day? My guess would be a combination of all four. After I settled in on PRS #11, I never took the tension off the neck all at once. Nope, not once, not ever, mostly out of superstition I think. And, I bought a very pricey Reunion Blues leather bass bag for the bass - and on future tours the bass never left my side or at least my sight. No more trucks for the PRS after that.

So, in trying to bring this full circle - one of the things that caught my attention was that the cargo holds, while pressurized - are not always heated. One gentlemen even mentioned that he had seen pets perish in unheated cargo holds - when the pilot forgot to flip the heat switch.

So here is the tangent question. Is extreme cold a reason to loosen the strings? At what temperature should one be concerned? Below freezing? Below zero? Inquiring minds want to know....
 
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Simple question: which puts more load on the neck: Rod or strings. Bruce's explanation is compelling and logical. And it has always been my understanding.

Perhaps we are debating over what might be an imperceptible difference in the instrument's "safety," regardless of the theory to which you prescribe. This is highly likely.

I will say that I have received a few basses with bowed necks in my day and I have never been so lucky as to put them in a back bow by simply slackening the strings. Nor has this happened to any basses I have had with perfect set ups that I detuned for storage.

At the same time I recognize that manufacturers, and some retailers ship with the bass tuned. If I were the former, it would certainly seem like good "PR" to do so as this would signal a "ready to play "out of the box" message, especially if there is no real difference in shipping this way or with strings slackened.

But to me, when I am buying the customer is always right and I ask for the strings slackened. And when I am selling or trading, as long as I am holding the bag for damages in shipping and unless the buyer requests otherwise, I am slackening the strings.

And sorry folks- the "Fender and every other manufacturer of great instruments" argument isn't compelling enough for me to ship tuned to pitch. Nor is it valid, given at least one maker of great instruments doesnt do it either.

It's and open debate if one cares to debate. Maybe everyone is right.

Can't we all just get along?!

LOL
 
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Simple question: which puts more load on the neck: Ros or strings. Bruce's explanation is compelling and logical. And it has always been my understanding.

Perhaps we are debating over what might be an imperceptible difference in the instrument's "safety," regardless of the theory to which you prescribe. This is highly likely.

I will say that I have received a few basses with bowed necks in my day and I have never been so lucky as to put them in a back bow by simply slackening the strings. Nor has this happened to any basses I have had with perfect set ups that I detuned for storage.

At the same time I recognize that manufacturers, and some retailers ship with the bass tuned. If I were the former, it would certainly seem like good "PR" to do so as this would signal a "ready to play "ut of the box" message, especially if there is no real difference in shipping this way or with strings slackened.

But to me, when I am buying the customer is always right and I ask for the strings slackened. And when j am selling or trading, as long as I am holding the bag for damages in shipping and unless the buyer requests otherwise, I am slackening the strings.

And sorry folks- the "Fender and every other manufacturer of great instruments" argument isn't compelling enough for me to ship tuned to pitch. Nor is it valid, given at least one maker of great instruments doesnt do it either.

It's and open debate if one cares to debate. Maybe everyone is right.

Can't we all just get along?!

LOL
I dont think people are using purely anecdote driven arguments. By the same token, a vast majority of the anecdotes favor one side. The ONLY testing I have heard of comes from the Taylor guitars webite I quoted, and is therefore the only viewpoint which appears to have been validated through testing.

Here is how I see it. It is an algebra equation of X = Y. In a stable neck X and Y equal the same value of forward and reverse tension. If you change the formula to X = Y-Z where Z is any positive number then you have an ustable neck.

Force can impact the formula as X+F = Y or X = Y+F or any variation of X + a/F = Y + F/a based upon the direction of impact, and for sure I am oversimplifying.

But in this view I don't see the benefit of subtracting tension from Y. Who knows? That forward tension has equal probability to prevent damage as it does to exacerbate it.

But if someone wants to buy a bass from me and asks me to slack the strings, then by all means that is what I would do. Honestly I think a good packing job makes a much bigger difference, and for all the egg-drops that I've helped my son build over the course of elementary school I'm going to double down on that side of the equation.
 
I dont think people are using purely anecdote driven arguments. By the same token, a vast majority of the anecdotes favor one side. The ONLY testing I have heard of comes from the Taylor guitars webite I quoted, and is therefore the only viewpoint which appears to have been validated through testing.

Here is how I see it. It is an algebra equation of X = Y. In a stable neck X and Y equal the same value of forward and reverse tension. If you change the formula to X = Y-Z where Z is any positive number then you have an ustable neck.

Force can impact the formula as X+F = Y or X = Y+F or any variation of X + a/F = Y + F/a based upon the direction of impact, and for sure I am oversimplifying.

But in this view I don't see the benefit of subtracting tension from Y. Who knows? That forward tension has equal probability to prevent damage as it does to exacerbate it.

But if someone wants to buy a bass from me and asks me to slack the strings, then by all means that is what I would do. Honestly I think a good packing job makes a much bigger difference, and for all the egg-drops that I've helped my son build over the course of elementary school I'm going to double down on that side of the equation.

Always double down on packing bombproof in basses. And on 11 in blackjack.
 
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Received a Fender Squier VM Jazz FL from Thomann, the first bass I've had by mail order that had slack strings and back bow, also had quite a few fingermarks and generally felt a bit ugly in terms of packaging.

Having to set it up didn't feel like great service to me. Now I've decided to ship it back because the sound doesn't work for me, I think I'll leave it in tune. Maybe there was some reason this bass was provided slack, but I can't see a good reason. I would have thought that having the strings banging against the Ebonol fretboard wasn't particularly impressive.
 
Received a Fender Squier VM Jazz FL from Thomann, the first bass I've had by mail order that had slack strings and back bow, also had quite a few fingermarks and generally felt a bit ugly in terms of packaging.

Having to set it up didn't feel like great service to me. Now I've decided to ship it back because the sound doesn't work for me, I think I'll leave it in tune. Maybe there was some reason this bass was provided slack, but I can't see a good reason. I would have thought that having the strings banging against the Ebonol fretboard wasn't particularly impressive.

It is best to take care of specific problems via PM rather than in a public thread. I just received a Stingray 5 with the strings slacked and it was no problem at all but we are talking about pro level instrument. My preference is to ship and receive with the strings under tension but I understand that not everyone feels that way.