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Loud double bass

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by PappaK, Mar 11, 2011.

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  1. Mar 11, 2011 #1
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Hey all,

    I was wondering if any of you play your upright in a loud setting - and what gear you use? I'm currently using a Genz Neox 212 speaker cab and can't turn it up to what I'd like without feedback. I do realize that, to a point, it's the nature of the beast, but would, say a 4x10 be easier to control?

    I have a FDeck preamp coming in tomorrow which I'm hoping will help me squeeze a little out of my sound.

    Have any of you used the AI Clarus Plus and/or EA Doubler in a loud stage setting?

    I play in a blues/R&B band... loudish drummer, guitar, two horns. I double on electric on those gigs as well.

    My setup: Shen ply upright, Innovation Super Silver strings, Full Circle pickup, TC Electronic RH450 head, Genz-Benz Neox 212T.

    Any info would be appreciated!

    Regards,
    Pappa
     
  2. Mar 11, 2011 #2
    marvin spangles

    marvin spangles

    Nov 26, 2004
    Strabane Norther Ireland.
    Hi
    I have used the AI Focus which is pretty similar to the Clarus
    Also used the Doubler. I use them to drive an EA cxl112 cab.
    full cirlce pu.
    In a big band setting both amps performed fine. I got more than enough stage sound but I'm also in FOH .
    I have doubled in a very loud Blues \roots \world music band also and found I had to be content with a volume that was less then I would have liked on the double bass. The on stage monitors were so loud that they caused the bass to vibrate even when I wasn't playing. Had to dial out a lot of bass. But again I was in FOH pa. I talked to the sound man to make sure that he had a good FOH sound in the mix.
    IME you just have to cope with certain situations that are out of your control.
     
  3. Mar 11, 2011 #3
    Marc Piane

    Marc Piane

    Jun 14, 2004
    Chicago
    The three things that helped me most, two solved by fdeck and one by Target.

    1 Phase switch

    2 HPF

    3 hand towel to shove behind the tailpiece if all else fails
     
  4. Mar 11, 2011 #4
    Matthijs

    Matthijs Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2006
    Amsterdam
    +1 and ad:
    4 choosing a good position for your bass and amp relative to each other and the room. I've played gigs standing almost behind my rig as it was the only feedback free spot.



    I can get pretty far with these four. I use 2 12" diy cabs. I don't think a 4*10 or any other speaker configuration will do any better, maybe even worse. I'd think less phasing issues in a room will make it simpler to find a feedback free setting and positioning of your bass. Anything with to many and horizontally paralel speakers will only complicate things.
     
  5. Mar 11, 2011 #5
    dukeorock

    dukeorock Owner BNA Audio Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2011
    Nashville, TN
    Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
    I play upright bass in a very loud band...for the past 3-4 years I've been running a Fender TB1200 amp with 2 4ohm Fender 810 Pro cabs...volume is fine even at the most extreme...but then you're lugging around two 810 cabs and an insanely heavy amp...hoping to find a rig where I can use less stuff and cut through the same...recently got endorsed by Genz Benz...will post as soon as I get my rig.
     
  6. Mar 11, 2011 #6
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Ugh. I know the feeling. 99% of the gigs I do have a FOH system, so being heard "out there" is never a problem. But on stage, it's pretty tough. And it's not as if the band has an insane stage volume. So what head are you using now?

    Well, good news for me, it seems. I'll be getting my FDeck this afternoon.

    As for the towel... Is that basically to reduce the top's vibration? I have the string afterlengths wrapped with a velcro kind of strap. They don't vibrate one bit. Can you explain the advantages of the towel-behind-the-tailpiece trick?

    Point taken regarding placement. Unfortunately, I seem to rarely have a lot of choice in that department. I try not to stand too close to my cab, but I also don't like being *too* far away.

    I also notice the reoccurring theme of using two separate 12" cabs. Is that more of a portability/flexibility issue for you guys? My Genz Neo 212 is pretty easy to move (around 50 lbs and has tilt-back wheels), but would I somehow benefit more sonically from two separate 12's?

    Congrats on the endorsement. What speaker configuration are you going with? Personally, I'd like to do everything possible to avoid the need to carry around an 8x10...

    I chose the 2x12 before I picked up the doublebass. For electric, it's a wonderful cab. I'm just second-guessing it's use for upright now.
     
  7. Mar 11, 2011 #7
    Marc Piane

    Marc Piane

    Jun 14, 2004
    Chicago
    Yeppers. The velcro trick is cool too. I've found the towel thing works a bit better because the top is usually the offending party. Dampening vibrations suck but when you are playing a stoopid volumes you are obviously not really depending on the acoustic response of the instrument anymore.

    Just did a rock club gig last night doing rock/alt country/americana kinda stuff. Didn't have to reach for the towel but the HPF/phase switch was the ****.
     
  8. Mar 11, 2011 #8
    dukeorock

    dukeorock Owner BNA Audio Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2011
    Nashville, TN
    Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
    My instincts are to go with two Uber 410's, but people keep saying an Uber 410 on top of an Uber 212 is the best full range ticket, so I'm gonna start there and see what it gets me...also couldn't decide between the GBE1200 and the SM 12.0, but for now gonna try the SM12.0...it's 1200 watts, weighs 7lbs and is dual voltage so I can take it to Europe with me.
     
  9. Mar 11, 2011 #9
    marvin spangles

    marvin spangles

    Nov 26, 2004
    Strabane Norther Ireland.
     
  10. Mar 11, 2011 #10
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Coooool. Well, I just got my FDeck today and after giving it a good test, it DEFINITELY helps. A LOT. Tomorrow is the real test when I play with other musicians. Fingers crossed.
     
  11. Mar 11, 2011 #11
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Nice setup! Holy moses! When do you take delivery? I'd love to hear your impressions.
     
  12. Mar 11, 2011 #12
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
     
  13. Mar 13, 2011 #13
    bolo

    bolo

    May 29, 2005
    Apex, NC
    I have used a pickup (Rev Solo) and a mic (Beyer M88) into my amp for several years now. I am to the point where I can stand in front of my cab, off to the side, and get what I guess I would call controlled feedback to make the sound very woody and resonant. On the verge of feeding back. It's all in how I stand (or lean) relative to the speaker. And it's a good thing. :p

    Think of Sam Jones on those recordings in the late 50's w/ Cannonball. What a sound! :cool:
     
  14. Mar 13, 2011 #14
    bolo

    bolo

    May 29, 2005
    Apex, NC
    Just reread the OP.

    Yes, high pass filter. That's key. I have an HPF-Pre too. You will enjoy yours.

    My Focus 2R III does the same thing, for my p/u and my mic.

    Enjoy. And make a good sound. :)
     
  15. Mar 13, 2011 #15
    bigshiny

    bigshiny Supporting Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    St Louis MO
    I used to use various preamps into a QSC 3102. Then hit a SWR Goliath 4x10 and a Big Ben 1x18. Definitely the voice of God. Now I am using a 2x12/6/horn with an iAMP 800. Still fills a stage and the room pretty well. The whole rig weighs less than the Goliath. Thinking about adding a fearful 2x12 sub or 15 sub. Jury is still out on this one. iAMP goes to 2ohms with 1000watt of power.
     
  16. Mar 13, 2011 #16
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Nice! And what speakers are you using?

    After trying my HPF today with the band, it was definitely an improvement - but I'm still struggling a little. You'd think with a head like the TC RH450 and all it's EQ possibilities I'd be able to really zero in on the trouble spots. The head sounds really wonderful with my P-Basses, but I'm starting to really doubt it for my upright needs/wants. Aargh. Frustrating.

    Of course, now I'm starting to look at other possibilities - with maybe a simpler EQ setup - but geared for upright bass. I know I can get a very decent P-Bass tone out of pretty much any amp, so I'm not too worried in that department.
     
  17. Mar 13, 2011 #17
    bigshiny

    bigshiny Supporting Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    St Louis MO
    Are you using diffferent eq settings going from upright to electric? If not, that could be the problem.
     
  18. Mar 13, 2011 #18
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    I'd really like to keep my setup to one cab, but if having two cabs will allow me the "luxury" of hearing myself decently, then I'm all for it - providing the cabs are reasonably portable...

    I guess what bugs me the most is that the band with whom I need the volume isn't THAT loud - yet it's a struggle every night.
     
  19. Mar 13, 2011 #19
    PappaK

    PappaK

    Nov 13, 2009
    Montreal, Canada
    Endorsing Artist: Dean Markley
    Yes, different EQ settings.

    Both basses going into a quality AB box then out into the one input on the head - which has 3 channels. Each bass gets it's own designated channel.
     
  20. Mar 13, 2011 #20
    bigshiny

    bigshiny Supporting Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    St Louis MO
    I've used both. A 4x10 and currently a 2x12. Never had a huge problem with either. I must say that doubling is a pain in the ***. I have spent a lot of hours and $ to get to a spot where I can set one down and pick up another and be totally comfortable with the sound of each. Night after night.
     
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