Double Bass Loud double bass

[PappaK]

Hey all,

I was wondering if any of you play your upright in a loud setting - and what gear you use? I'm currently using a Genz Neox 212 speaker cab and can't turn it up to what I'd like without feedback. I do realize that, to a point, it's the nature of the beast, but would, say a 4x10 be easier to control?

I have a FDeck preamp coming in tomorrow which I'm hoping will help me squeeze a little out of my sound.

Have any of you used the AI Clarus Plus and/or EA Doubler in a loud stage setting?

I play in a blues/R&B band... loudish drummer, guitar, two horns. I double on electric on those gigs as well.

My setup: Shen ply upright, Innovation Super Silver strings, Full Circle pickup, TC Electronic RH450 head, Genz-Benz Neox 212T.

Any info would be appreciated!

Regards,
Pappa

 

[marvin spangles]

Hi
I have used the AI Focus which is pretty similar to the Clarus
Also used the Doubler. I use them to drive an EA cxl112 cab.
full cirlce pu.
In a big band setting both amps performed fine. I got more than enough stage sound but I'm also in FOH .
I have doubled in a very loud Blues \roots \world music band also and found I had to be content with a volume that was less then I would have liked on the double bass. The on stage monitors were so loud that they caused the bass to vibrate even when I wasn't playing. Had to dial out a lot of bass. But again I was in FOH pa. I talked to the sound man to make sure that he had a good FOH sound in the mix.
IME you just have to cope with certain situations that are out of your control.

 

[Marc Piane]

The three things that helped me most, two solved by fdeck and one by Target.

1 Phase switch

2 HPF

3 hand towel to shove behind the tailpiece if all else fails

 

[Matthijs]

The three things that helped me most, two solved by fdeck and one by Target.

1 Phase switch

2 HPF

3 hand towel to shove behind the tailpiece is all else fails

+1 and ad:
4 choosing a good position for your bass and amp relative to each other and the room. I've played gigs standing almost behind my rig as it was the only feedback free spot.



I can get pretty far with these four. I use 2 12" diy cabs. I don't think a 4*10 or any other speaker configuration will do any better, maybe even worse. I'd think less phasing issues in a room will make it simpler to find a feedback free setting and positioning of your bass. Anything with to many and horizontally paralel speakers will only complicate things.

 

[dukeorock]

I play upright bass in a very loud band...for the past 3-4 years I've been running a Fender TB1200 amp with 2 4ohm Fender 810 Pro cabs...volume is fine even at the most extreme...but then you're lugging around two 810 cabs and an insanely heavy amp...hoping to find a rig where I can use less stuff and cut through the same...recently got endorsed by Genz Benz...will post as soon as I get my rig.

 

[PappaK]

Hi
I have used the AI Focus which is pretty similar to the Clarus
Also used the Doubler. I use them to drive an EA cxl112 cab.
full cirlce pu.
In a big band setting both amps performed fine. I got more than enough stage sound but I'm also in FOH .
I have doubled in a very loud Blues \roots \world music band also and found I had to be content with a volume that was less then I would have liked on the double bass. The on stage monitors were so loud that they caused the bass to vibrate even when I wasn't playing. Had to dial out a lot of bass. But again I was in FOH pa. I talked to the sound man to make sure that he had a good FOH sound in the mix.
IME you just have to cope with certain situations that are out of your control.

Ugh. I know the feeling. 99% of the gigs I do have a FOH system, so being heard "out there" is never a problem. But on stage, it's pretty tough. And it's not as if the band has an insane stage volume. So what head are you using now?

The three things that helped me most, two solved by fdeck and one by Target.

1 Phase switch

2 HPF

3 hand towel to shove behind the tailpiece if all else fails

Well, good news for me, it seems. I'll be getting my FDeck this afternoon.

As for the towel... Is that basically to reduce the top's vibration? I have the string afterlengths wrapped with a velcro kind of strap. They don't vibrate one bit. Can you explain the advantages of the towel-behind-the-tailpiece trick?

+1 and ad:
4 choosing a good position for your bass and amp relative to each other and the room. I've played gigs standing almost behind my rig as it was the only feedback free spot.



I can get pretty far with these four. I use 2 12" diy cabs. I don't think a 4*10 or any other speaker configuration will do any better, maybe even worse. I'd think less phasing issues in a room will make it simpler to find a feedback free setting and positioning of your bass. Anything with to many and horizontally paralel speakers will only complicate things.

Point taken regarding placement. Unfortunately, I seem to rarely have a lot of choice in that department. I try not to stand too close to my cab, but I also don't like being *too* far away.

I also notice the reoccurring theme of using two separate 12" cabs. Is that more of a portability/flexibility issue for you guys? My Genz Neo 212 is pretty easy to move (around 50 lbs and has tilt-back wheels), but would I somehow benefit more sonically from two separate 12's?

I play upright bass in a very loud band...for the past 3-4 years I've been running a Fender TB1200 amp with 2 4ohm Fender 810 Pro cabs...volume is fine even at the most extreme...but then you're lugging around two 810 cabs and an insanely heavy amp...hoping to find a rig where I can use less stuff and cut through the same...recently got endorsed by Genz Benz...will post as soon as I get my rig.

Congrats on the endorsement. What speaker configuration are you going with? Personally, I'd like to do everything possible to avoid the need to carry around an 8x10...

I chose the 2x12 before I picked up the doublebass. For electric, it's a wonderful cab. I'm just second-guessing it's use for upright now.

 

[Marc Piane]

As for the towel... Is that basically to reduce the top's vibration? I have the string afterlengths wrapped with a velcro kind of strap. They don't vibrate one bit. Can you explain the advantages of the towel-behind-the-tailpiece trick?

Yeppers. The velcro trick is cool too. I've found the towel thing works a bit better because the top is usually the offending party. Dampening vibrations suck but when you are playing a stoopid volumes you are obviously not really depending on the acoustic response of the instrument anymore.

Just did a rock club gig last night doing rock/alt country/americana kinda stuff. Didn't have to reach for the towel but the HPF/phase switch was the ****.

 

[dukeorock]

Congrats on the endorsement. What speaker configuration are you going with? Personally, I'd like to do everything possible to avoid the need to carry around an 8x10...

My instincts are to go with two Uber 410's, but people keep saying an Uber 410 on top of an Uber 212 is the best full range ticket, so I'm gonna start there and see what it gets me...also couldn't decide between the GBE1200 and the SM 12.0, but for now gonna try the SM12.0...it's 1200 watts, weighs 7lbs and is dual voltage so I can take it to Europe with me.

 

[marvin spangles]

Ugh. I know the feeling. 99% of the gigs I do have a FOH system, so being heard "out there" is never a problem. But on stage, it's pretty tough. And it's not as if the band has an insane stage volume. So what head are you using now?

Still using the AI Focus /doubler. They are great heads and produce a tone(or lack of tone) I like. Use an EA110 for small gigs and an ordering a Ten2 ex.
Still use the CXl112 cabs for loud gigs. If that cab can't cut it then the band are stupidly loud. But generally I try to play in bands that aren't stupidly loud now. What's the point?

 

[PappaK]

Yeppers. The velcro trick is cool too. I've found the towel thing works a bit better because the top is usually the offending party. Dampening vibrations suck but when you are playing a stoopid volumes you are obviously not really depending on the acoustic response of the instrument anymore.

Just did a rock club gig last night doing rock/alt country/americana kinda stuff. Didn't have to reach for the towel but the HPF/phase switch was the ****.

Coooool. Well, I just got my FDeck today and after giving it a good test, it DEFINITELY helps. A LOT. Tomorrow is the real test when I play with other musicians. Fingers crossed.

 

[PappaK]

My instincts are to go with two Uber 410's, but people keep saying an Uber 410 on top of an Uber 212 is the best full range ticket, so I'm gonna start there and see what it gets me...also couldn't decide between the GBE1200 and the SM 12.0, but for now gonna try the SM12.0...it's 1200 watts, weighs 7lbs and is dual voltage so I can take it to Europe with me.

Nice setup! Holy moses! When do you take delivery? I'd love to hear your impressions.

 

[PappaK]

Ugh. I know the feeling. 99% of the gigs I do have a FOH system, so being heard "out there" is never a problem. But on stage, it's pretty tough. And it's not as if the band has an insane stage volume. So what head are you using now?

Still using the AI Focus /doubler. They are great heads and produce a tone(or lack of tone) I like. Use an EA110 for small gigs and an ordering a Ten2 ex.
Still use the CXl112 cabs for loud gigs. If that cab can't cut it then the band are stupidly loud. But generally I try to play in bands that aren't stupidly loud now. What's the point?

Same here. The band is loud... compared to some - but not "stupid" loud. I still am struggling, though. I recently did some gigs with a piano quartet (piano, sax, drums and db) and I was still uncomfortable with not being able to hear as clear as I would've liked.

Just got a FDeck pre today. So far, it's great. Tomorrow I test 'er live. Can't wait.

So what makes you use one head over the other? Sorry for all the extra questions, but I'm definitely still intrigued by both the AI and EA heads.

 

[bolo]

I have used a pickup (Rev Solo) and a mic (Beyer M88) into my amp for several years now. I am to the point where I can stand in front of my cab, off to the side, and get what I guess I would call controlled feedback to make the sound very woody and resonant. On the verge of feeding back. It's all in how I stand (or lean) relative to the speaker. And it's a good thing.

Think of Sam Jones on those recordings in the late 50's w/ Cannonball. What a sound!

 

[bolo]

Just reread the OP.

Yes, high pass filter. That's key. I have an HPF-Pre too. You will enjoy yours.

My Focus 2R III does the same thing, for my p/u and my mic.

Enjoy. And make a good sound.

 

[bigshiny]

I used to use various preamps into a QSC 3102. Then hit a SWR Goliath 4x10 and a Big Ben 1x18. Definitely the voice of God. Now I am using a 2x12/6/horn with an iAMP 800. Still fills a stage and the room pretty well. The whole rig weighs less than the Goliath. Thinking about adding a fearful 2x12 sub or 15 sub. Jury is still out on this one. iAMP goes to 2ohms with 1000watt of power.

 

[PappaK]

I have used a pickup (Rev Solo) and a mic (Beyer M88) into my amp for several years now. I am to the point where I can stand in front of my cab, off to the side, and get what I guess I would call controlled feedback to make the sound very woody and resonant. On the verge of feeding back. It's all in how I stand (or lean) relative to the speaker. And it's a good thing.

Think of Sam Jones on those recordings in the late 50's w/ Cannonball. What a sound!

Nice! And what speakers are you using?

After trying my HPF today with the band, it was definitely an improvement - but I'm still struggling a little. You'd think with a head like the TC RH450 and all it's EQ possibilities I'd be able to really zero in on the trouble spots. The head sounds really wonderful with my P-Basses, but I'm starting to really doubt it for my upright needs/wants. Aargh. Frustrating.

Of course, now I'm starting to look at other possibilities - with maybe a simpler EQ setup - but geared for upright bass. I know I can get a very decent P-Bass tone out of pretty much any amp, so I'm not too worried in that department.

 

[bigshiny]

Are you using diffferent eq settings going from upright to electric? If not, that could be the problem.

 

[PappaK]

I used to use various preamps into a QSC 3102. Then hit a SWR Goliath 4x10 and a Big Ben 1x18. Definitely the voice of God. Now I am using a 2x12/6/horn with an iAMP 800. Still fills a stage and the room pretty well. The whole rig weighs less than the Goliath. Thinking about adding a fearful 2x12 sub or 15 sub. Jury is still out on this one. iAMP goes to 2ohms with 1000watt of power.

I'd really like to keep my setup to one cab, but if having two cabs will allow me the "luxury" of hearing myself decently, then I'm all for it - providing the cabs are reasonably portable...

I guess what bugs me the most is that the band with whom I need the volume isn't THAT loud - yet it's a struggle every night.

 

[PappaK]

Are you using diffferent eq settings going from upright to electric? If not, that could be the problem.

Yes, different EQ settings.

Both basses going into a quality AB box then out into the one input on the head - which has 3 channels. Each bass gets it's own designated channel.

 

[bigshiny]

I've used both. A 4x10 and currently a 2x12. Never had a huge problem with either. I must say that doubling is a pain in the ***. I have spent a lot of hours and $ to get to a spot where I can set one down and pick up another and be totally comfortable with the sound of each. Night after night.