Double Bass Loud double bass

[bolo]

Nice! And what speakers are you using?

After trying my HPF today with the band, it was definitely an improvement - but I'm still struggling a little. You'd think with a head like the TC RH450 and all it's EQ possibilities I'd be able to really zero in on the trouble spots. The head sounds really wonderful with my P-Basses, but I'm starting to really doubt it for my upright needs/wants. Aargh. Frustrating.

Of course, now I'm starting to look at other possibilities - with maybe a simpler EQ setup - but geared for upright bass. I know I can get a very decent P-Bass tone out of pretty much any amp, so I'm not too worried in that department.

Hey PappaK.

Man, there have been so many posts in this thread since my bleary eyed ones < 24 hour ago. Some of those posts are by some serious heavyweights too.

But, since you asked ...

Nice! And what speakers are you using?

Mostly a Euphonic Audio Wizzy M-line (1x12). On loud gigs (for me), I add a regular Wizzy 1x12.

Of course, now I'm starting to look at other possibilities - with maybe a simpler EQ setup - but geared for upright bass. I know I can get a very decent P-Bass tone out of pretty much any amp, so I'm not too worried in that department.

FWIW ... I run the EQ flat on my AI Focus for upright. The only adjustment I make (and tweak very slightly) from gig to gig and room to room is the roll-off frequency for the high pass filter, and for the pickup mostly. That said, my gigs are largely unremarkable. Check my profile if you like.

I think so much of the feedback thing has to do with where you are located relative to your speaker, and monitors (if present). I can recall one gig where I was pinned in and could not move around, but just spinning the bass on the endpin a bit away from the speaker changed the sound. Again, this was no high profile gig. Just a club. FWIW, YMMV, ...

P.S. I use the same rig, no high pass filter, with my Lakland Bob Glaub and Lakland Joe Osborne. Flatwounds. Old school. Key difference ... SansAmp BDDI in front of the Focus. Love its tone shaping capabilties for slab.

 

[bolo]

The band is loud... compared to some - but not "stupid" loud. I still am struggling, though. I recently did some gigs with a piano quartet (piano, sax, drums and db) and I was still uncomfortable with not being able to hear as clear as I would've liked.

Just got a FDeck pre today. So far, it's great. Tomorrow I test 'er live. Can't wait.

Gotta ask. Sorry. ... This is a small(ish) ensemble. Still having feedback or hearing issues?

 

[PappaK]

It gets shipped this coming tuesday or wednesday...not sure how long it'll take to get here though. Stoked to hook it all up and see how it goes.

I've heard a lot of upright players prefer 12's...not sure whey two single 12's as opposed to a 212 though...I need LOUD, so I go with big cabs always...this is the smallest rig I've played in a few years.

Top vibration is the main culprit for low end feedback, hence the towel trick...try it for sure...what kind of bass are you using? I have a signature model King Doublebass (now called Blast Cult)...it's a super dead bass, so getting it loud is not an issue.

Another factor is soundpost location/adjustment...the further behind your bridge foot, the more acoustic quality to a point, but also more vibration of the top...you could try nudging it closer the foot of the bridge...small increments go a long way so tread lightly. Lot's of rockabilly/psychobilly players install a second soundpost under the bass bar...that'll make it way deader, but now your live bass won't record for beans...I just have to have a live bass and a recording bass.

Hope that helps a little

Mark

Duke, to answer the bass question: I have a Shen SB-100. It's a plywood bass.

Cheers,
Pappa K

 

[PappaK]

Hey PappaK.

Man, there have been so many posts in this thread since my bleary eyed ones < 24 hour ago. Some of those posts are by some serious heavyweights too.

But, since you asked ... Mostly a Euphonic Audio Wizzy M-line (1x12). On loud gigs (for me), I add a regular Wizzy 1x12.FWIW ... I run the EQ flat on my AI Focus for upright. The only adjustment I make (and tweak very slightly) from gig to gig and room to room is the roll-off frequency for the high pass filter, and for the pickup mostly. That said, my gigs are largely unremarkable. Check my profile if you like.

I think so much of the feedback thing has to do with where you are located relative to your speaker, and monitors (if present). I can recall one gig where I was pinned in and could not move around, but just spinning the bass on the endpin a bit away from the speaker changed the sound. Again, this was no high profile gig. Just a club. FWIW, YMMV, ...

P.S. I use the same rig, no high pass filter, with my Lakland Bob Glaub and Lakland Joe Osborne. Flatwounds. Old school. Key difference ... SansAmp BDDI in front of the Focus. Love its tone shaping capabilties for slab.

The Wizzy sure gets a lot of support. I'm going to have to check around here for a dealer.

If it's cool, I'm gonna drop you a PM.

Cheers,
Pappa K

 

[PappaK]

Gotta ask. Sorry. ... This is a small(ish) ensemble. Still having feedback or hearing issues?

Feedback was indeed reduced and I could hear myself noticeable better. BUT it was a very small venue. On Thursday I play with my 5-piece "loud" band and on Sunday I'll be playing another show with the piano quartet. So definitely some chances to test 'er out at the end of the coming week.

But now I'm really wondering if my FC should be flipped over (It's installed "threads down").

 

[Marc Piane]

The Wizzy sure gets a lot of support. I'm going to have to check around here for a dealer.

The Wizzy M-Line is badass. I have two.

 

[bolo]

The Wizzy M-Line is badass. I have two.

Hi Marc. Dig. The M-line just handles the low-mids that I crave so well.

FWIW, I have the much venerated Euphonic Audio VL-208 also. More "full range" if you will, like PappaK described with his 4x10 and 2x12 stack. (Holy mackerel!)

But, truth be told, for me, in most of my (largely unremarkable) gig settings, the M-line (with the Focus ... and the Beyer) just produces the sound that I crave.

Just my two cents. There are SO many variables with amplified DB ...

If I could just get an amplified sound like Sam Jones in the studio on Somethin' Else. Then I could stop visiting this forum and be done with it.

 

[PappaK]

The Wizzy M-Line is badass. I have two.

I'm even more interested since you used the term "badass"!

 

[Marc Piane]

RAWK!!!

As Steve points out there is a low mid growl that speaker has that is awesome. It's incredibly efficient and can really push some air for such a small box. There is also a cool 'surround' thing because of the side ports. A drummer can set up to the side or even slightly behind the cab and still hear fine. If you are looking for a cab that has the bowel-shaking lows it ain't it though. I think that's what makes it nice for DB. Follows the contour of the sound most of us are looking for.

That said though I am a BIG proponent of getting the biggest sound you can with the bass acoustically. Never play the amp. It is opposite of what we do on chop. There you can crank the amp and tickle the strings and everything is right with the world. With DB you still really have to concentrate on getting a huge tone THEN amplify it.

I find one of the hardest things is getting that huge tone becomes more of a tactile thing. When you are at stoopid volume you can't hear the bass anymore. You can only feel it in your hands and body. The tendency is to let up a bit and let the amp do the work. Resist. Keep that physical approach up and dial the amp back a tick. Your tone will thank you.

 

[PappaK]

RAWK!!!

As Steve points out there is a low mid growl that speaker has that is awesome. It's incredibly efficient and can really push some air for such a small box. There is also a cool 'surround' thing because of the side ports. A drummer can set up to the side or even slightly behind the cab and still hear fine. If you are looking for a cab that has the bowel-shaking lows it ain't it though. I think that's what makes it nice for DB. Follows the contour of the sound most of us are looking for.

That said though I am a BIG proponent of getting the biggest sound you can with the bass acoustically. Never play the amp. It is opposite of what we do on chop. There you can crank the amp and tickle the strings and everything is right with the world. With DB you still really have to concentrate on getting a huge tone THEN amplify it.

I find one of the hardest things is getting that huge tone becomes more of a tactile thing. When you are at stoopid volume you can't hear the bass anymore. You can only feel it in your hands and body. The tendency is to let up a bit and let the amp do the work. Resist. Keep that physical approach up and dial the amp back a tick. Your tone will thank you.

Well, turns out there's ONE EA dealer here in town. I left a message with them to find out what they have in stock, so hopefully I'll actually get to hear one of these bad boys live.

 

[kerrycares]

I used a Walter Woods high power 1,000 watt head with 2 Aguilar 1x12" cabs for my loud upright gigs. By far the best sounding , portable upright rig I've ever used although it is a bit expensive.

 

[PappaK]

Well, to close off this thread, just wanted to thank everyone for their help. I ended up trying out and purchasing a Genz-Benz Shuttlemax 9.2 about 3 weeks ago and am loving it.

My upright goes through Fdeck's pre and into the 9.2. Great control and I can get it LOUD.

Cheers,
Pappa K

 

[marasdoublebass]

There is no solution that fit all doublebasses since they are diffenrent and the wood works. Mine used to go quazy when i played e-flat but that changed by time. I use the danish and very expensive Willson pickups as used by the late NHOP. They are told to be the best concerning feed back. Check them out on Invalid Link Removed.

/Martin

 

[marasdoublebass]

There is no solution that fit all doublebasses since they are diffenrent and the wood works. Mine used to go quazy when i played e-flat but that changed by time. I use the danish and very expensive Willson pickups as used by the late NHOP. They are told to be the best concerning feed back. Check them out on Invalid Link Removed.

/Martin

 

[marvin spangles]

I haven't got the EA long enough to compare.

Hope the FDeck goes some way to solving your probems.

Just to update you ... Now that I've had the EA doubler for a while I'd say that the EA colours the sound slightly. The AI is much more Hi Fi and much cleaner so a superior amp for Double bass in my opinion. However if you are on a doubler gig I don't think the added colour will put you off the EA. In fact it might be a bonus for the electric bass.

 

[Dave Irwin]

I have a Flite 12" and my Clarus for those situations. I also have a "stand-back" to tilt the speaker toward my head. I think that's the main thing in loud situations.

 

[Les Fret]

I haven't read all posts. But in my opinion (and experience) the only thing that really works in a loud band is a magnetic pickup.
I have a Biesele magnetic pickup and a Full Circle. But I can't use the FC in a loud band. The feedback is just too much and uncontrollable.
In those situations I put on the Biesele.

The sound of the Biesele is not so good/natural as the FC but if you can't hear yourself a good natural sound with much feedback is useless anyway.
When you have to adjust and change so much of your EQ settings with the FC to control the feedback it will not sound natural after all.