will this devalue my vietnamese made svt-vr? i was thinking of selling it unless it will go up in value for some reason
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LOUD..going...going....GONE
- Thread starter Tony Gray
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If it is any consolation, when they bought SLM, Jamie Engen, the recently fired (as of last August) CEO, came and sat in our conference room, explaining how they bought a going concern and would be stupid to do anything to disturb it. That was the first and only corporate meeting I have ever been in where it was specifically required that no recording be made of the meeting.....
That really set the tone, by suggesting that he wanted "plausible deniability" for lies. And indeed, every single word he said that day was eventually directly contradicted by events.
I cannot offer any meaningful assessment as to whether he was deliberately telling lies, or was ignorant of the Sun Capital plan, or whether he actually believed what he said.
In any case, that policy lasted almost a year, before Sun Capital and/or Jamie decided that Service could go..... then production could go, then Engineering could go, and then that most of the rest of SLM could go.......
At some time in the middle, Gary Reilly came in and repeated basically what Jamie had said, but in what was universally assessed by those attending as a fishy-faced and waffling set of meaningless statements. We were not impressed by the man or the message, in case there actually was a message.
Loud has NOT had a good record for speaking truth, or at least for speaking intentions which are supported by later actions. Most of what has been said has later been UN-said, one way or another. It is almost 100% for reversed decisions in employee relations, as far as I know.
I can only assume their business dealings are similar to their dealings with employees. In that case, it is no wonder that their main chinese supplier cut them loose.
Well that's a subjective statement, except for the reliability. Ampeg's reliability has gone way down. I was talking to the soundman on my gigs this week, and he said they bought 4 LOUD SVT-CL rigs for the theaters we're playing, and he said one had crapped out a week after he got it.
But the tone...even though I've commented many times about how an LMII sounds like a clean running B-15 and the VT pedal can cop all the classic Ampeg tones, there's still no substitute for the real thing, and as yet, I've never found another tube amp that sounds quite like them.
Funny you would mention that Jimmy! I had occasion tonight to take the CMD 121P along with the VT pedal to a smaller show....damn.....impressive with that pedal!
But that's more to the point. With the variety of products that are available today - LOUD has no chance of survival if they plan on conducting "business as usual".
So, basically.....the beast may, indeed, be in its' death throes!
Still....it's a sad time for bassists......
But that's more to the point. With the variety of products that are available today - LOUD has no chance of survival if they plan on conducting "business as usual".
So, basically.....the beast may, indeed, be in its' death throes!
Still....it's a sad time for bassists......
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
bongomania
Commercial User
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,942
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I'd rate the Ampeg achievement level of the VT at about 95% after a few months of being able to sit with it. I'd say 90% with the LMII. Way higher than anything else out there, not as high as the real thing yet, but certainly good enough for gov't work.
Originally coming from the UK I grew up with a different set of amplifier makers. For us it was all VOX, Selmer, WEM. Then Marshall, Hiwatt, Simmswatt, Carlsbro, Orange, Sound City, H&H and more that I can't recall. These companies have mostly gone the same route that Ampeg went. Some names bought and used to sell rubbish. Others, in a similar fashion to Fender, bought by people who care and revitalized. I do not have the same connectton as you North American folk but I feel for you. Hopefully someone will come along and restore Ampeg to it's former "glory" If not Ampeg will fade into history, the next generation asking "What is an Ampeg?".
Then you also must be just down the road from Behringer USA offices. One feeds off the other.
So that must be where that smell is coming from!
(just kidding here. I've had no actual experience with either Behringer or Ampeg)
To piggyback on that thought, using Rick again as an example...once you mass produce or cheapen your product, what sets you apart from your competition? What makes you better? what makes you unique? In the case of Ampeg, how do you still deserve the reputation your name has earned?
Once you go from hand made to mass produced you go from a very small, protected bay into an ocean of your own wanna be's. More competition. Can you imagine a Rickenbacker Lite?
Once you take your product, relocate and start cutting corners, on top of kicking your customers in the beans if they have a problem......what makes you deserve your name generated reputation?
Personally, if any company does one or two things and does them really well, plus supports their customers, IMHO, that is security in the long haul. People will pay for reliable gear. people will pay for quality. And people will be willing to wait to get that gear. Again as long as it is a reasonable price and a reasonable wait time.....can you say Rickenbacker? Or any of the custom or boutique builders?
The drive to get too big, to have everybody using your stuff, be the biggest and be all things to everyone is a recipe for disaster!
Again all IMHO....
Then please explain how Fender is not a disaster?
Look, I expect to wait 6-12 weeks or longer for a handmade boutique instrument made by say Nino Valenti. I do not expect Rickenbacker to take so long. They're not designing the damn things every time they build one or even every 30 years. There's a limited number of models and colors. They have no excuse. Ernie Ball has MANY more options, models and colors and you can still pick one up easily. Rickenbacker is just a lazy arse company, period.
Actually, that's quite easy. Fender employs (probably) 3,000 folks who build their instruments (MIA - CIJ - MIM) whereas Ric employs 20 or so folks who build their guitars.
Nothing against Nino Valenti (great basses) but what sets them apart from any other - it's a body, electronics and a neck. Nothing more. He builds what? 10-20 per year (honestly, I have no idea) where Fender builds thousands every year and ric probably builds 1000 - 1500 hundred (again, speculation). Each company has their own niche that they have carved out over a period of time.
Frankly, I'll take Ric and their philosphy any day of the week - they have artifically created a demand by NOT building like crazy. Obviously, if John Hall desired, they could hire 500 more folks and build them like there was no tomorrow. Apparently they have no desire to because they feel that by building (and selling) them like water, it would cause their "mystique" to go by the way-side and ultimately, diminish their product viability.
Ampeg USED to follow that philosphy (to a degree) way back when. Then one day they decided "Hey, why not?" and began building them as fast as they could. Then, moved production overseas to grab a "bigger" advantage. Only problem was was that somewhere along the line (LOUD) they forgot where their niche was........now, they are reaping the whirlwind.....
Everyone is making a big deal about whether the move to asia killed Ampeg.
A previous poster said that it's about value. Now, for example, if Fender decided to close up shop in Corona CA and move their entire production line to Mexico what would you say? I'm sure the Mexican Fender plant could make the current MIA line to the exact same specs. If they were to chop 40% off their prices then I think you wouldn't hear too much complaining. However, if they wanted to continue to charge $1600 for a Mexican made 57 P-Bass reissue, I think you'd see Fender tank.
This is what LOUD did with Ampeg. Moved the production line to Asia, but kept prices the same. Heck, with all the cost-cutting that accomplished, net profit should have been WAAAY up! No, the Asia move, to me, reeks of reaction. I think the company was already headed for the toilet before they axed the USA plant. It was a bold cost-cutting move to save them from disaster. Tons of gear is made overseas and those companies are doing fine. LOUD was a victim of financial mismanagement and corporate incompetence. It just took a while before the **** really hit the fan.
A previous poster said that it's about value. Now, for example, if Fender decided to close up shop in Corona CA and move their entire production line to Mexico what would you say? I'm sure the Mexican Fender plant could make the current MIA line to the exact same specs. If they were to chop 40% off their prices then I think you wouldn't hear too much complaining. However, if they wanted to continue to charge $1600 for a Mexican made 57 P-Bass reissue, I think you'd see Fender tank.
This is what LOUD did with Ampeg. Moved the production line to Asia, but kept prices the same. Heck, with all the cost-cutting that accomplished, net profit should have been WAAAY up! No, the Asia move, to me, reeks of reaction. I think the company was already headed for the toilet before they axed the USA plant. It was a bold cost-cutting move to save them from disaster. Tons of gear is made overseas and those companies are doing fine. LOUD was a victim of financial mismanagement and corporate incompetence. It just took a while before the **** really hit the fan.
IMHO, Fender is not a disaster because of the current management and tightening up their QC. While Fender sells a whole bunch more instruments than Rick does (speaking solely about basses) they also have a much higher incidence of QC issues than Rick, I'd bet. Remember there was a time or 2 where Fenders stuff was pretty bad as far as QC and warranty issues.
Also, Fender is surviving in a sea of copies because of when and how they came about.
As to Ricks time lag in getting a bass vs a boutique builder, again IMHO, it does not matter. If I want (and I do want) a Rick, I know I will (maybe) have to wait. And I would never compare the time I might wait for a Rick against something from Nino, or anyone else. They are what and who they are and their wait time is their wait time. The same goes for Nino vs Lull, how could I begin to judge one against the other based on their wait time?
And to reign it back on topic, again IMHO, Ampeg's issue to me are QC and warranty as well as how they handle customers. Though I speak from not having ever dealt with them on a problem, what I have been reading on this site and in this thread leads me to believe these are their issues, Loose QC, poor warranty coverage, silly management decisions, corners being cut. Where they make the amps is not the real issue, where they are made does not automatically make something bad.
That was my point....
Peace out!
guys, why dont we just buy ampeg? seriously who wants to quit their job and go in on this with me?
Das ßoot;6887231 said:
anyone else? im sure if we all pitch in a few dollars, talkbass can collectively own ampeg, and make it everything we want it to be!
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