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Low Down Sound 15/6.5 Cab

#581
Sorry Tom

Elaborate electronic techniques or specially constructed environments are usually required to measure only the direct field form a loudspeaker without contamination from reflected signals. By placing the measurement object on a flat, rigid, unobstructed ground surface, and placing the measurement microphone flush with the ground, an accurate simulation of the anechoic response of the object together with its image source may be obtained.

Author: Gander, Mark R.
Affiliation: James B. Lansing Sound, Inc., Northridge, CA
JAES Volume 30 Issue 10 pp. 723-731; October 1982

I'll fix the link above

===

Here's a graphic from the Gander paper comparing results between the tower method and the ground plane method... pretty impressive.
 
#582
I bought Chef's LDS 15/6.5 which is the exact one in the pic on the first page of this thread that Ken played thru.

Gotta say this cab is beautiful. Very good craftsmanship... puts other boutique builders to shame IME. The black tolex, the steel corners, the 'ampeg' grill cloth... all very nice. If you're thinking of buying an LDS I would not hesitate in terms of a "quality of build" point of view. Very nice workmanship indeed.

Mucking around with the 6.5 attunuator I can tell it adds volume, and not necessarily perceived volume due to the addition of highs either. That said, I turned the 6.5 all the way off and dug it for my tone requirements (sort of a p bass with flats blues bass type vibe with little high-end content).

This cab is exceedingly light and portable. 42 Freaking pounds! If it can put out the volume I need, which I am confident it can based on reviews, I'll be happy. I tried it with LMII and I am not quite sure, but there is a good chance the LMII will not be adequate volume-wise. I havent had a chance to play it very loud yet since I live in a condo, but I have a rehearsal tonight and will definitely give her a good work over.

This cab looks very promising for my needs.:cool:
 
#583
I think you will be impressed with how deceiving the solo volume is. It gets ridiculously loud with no distortion so your ears think it's way quieter than it is. I thought it was quite quiet even cranked until I hooked it up in practice and was drowning everyone in bass :)
 
#584
::::BASSIST:::: said:
I bought Chef's LDS 15/6.5 which is the exact one in the pic on the first page of this thread that Ken played thru.

Gotta say this cab is beautiful. Very good craftsmanship... puts other boutique builders to shame IME. The black tolex, the steel corners, the 'ampeg' grill cloth... all very nice. If you're thinking of buying an LDS I would not hesitate in terms of a "quality of build" point of view. Very nice workmanship indeed.

Mucking around with the 6.5 attunuator I can tell it adds volume, and not necessarily perceived volume due to the addition of highs either. That said, I turned the 6.5 all the way off and dug it for my tone requirements (sort of a p bass with flats blues bass type vibe with little high-end content).

This cab is exceedingly light and portable. 42 Freaking pounds! If it can put out the volume I need, which I am confident it can based on reviews, I'll be happy. I tried it with LMII and I am not quite sure, but there is a good chance the LMII will not be adequate volume-wise. I havent had a chance to play it very loud yet since I live in a condo, but I have a rehearsal tonight and will definitely give her a good work over.

This cab looks very promising for my needs.:cool:
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your impressions. Please keep us updated after you try the cab at practices and gigs, and with different heads.
 
#585
concur; 100%
What I thought was "pretty cool loud" at home tuned out to be crushing at rehearsal, and plenty more than enough at gigs.

rpsands said:
I think you will be impressed with how deceiving the solo volume is. It gets ridiculously loud with no distortion so your ears think it's way quieter than it is. I thought it was quite quiet even cranked until I hooked it up in practice and was drowning everyone in bass :)
Click to expand...
 
#587
Well here's a couple words to sum up my thoughts. This cab definitely has some unique characteristics that I've never heard before. Right away I noticed the glaringly obvious lack of compression. The low-end seemingly had no bounds. However, I also realized that I'd have to be careful with this cab as it could easily get too deep and piss off the bandleader. I'm think an 80hz based frequency would serve me best with this. The low-end doesnt seem boomy but just envelopes everything in the mix. I can tell that if I dont use a higher bass eq like 80 hz I may run into problems of not being able to hear myself before the rest of the band gets overwhelmed.

I experimented again with the 6.5 attunuator. I liked it at both the 'normal' position and the off position. The off position really sounded great, but I think 'normal' or midway/noon position helped me hear myself a bit better. Once the band is playing there isnt a *huge* difference between the two. However, there definitely is a difference... just not as night and day as I thought there would be.

The rehearsal room we played in is well sound proofed with some kind of dampening material on the walls and a carpeted floor. That's to say it has a bit of a unique effect on the bass tone. Definitely want to try it out in other rooms. I have 4 gigs in 3 days next weekend so I'll get a better idea.

I'm afraid the LMII is barely going to be loud enough with this cab. I used alot more from the LMII that I usually ask of it using my two UL112s. My gain was near 2:30 and my volume dial was about 12:00-1:00. Usually I have my volume at about 9:00-1o:00 and that seems plenty loud. That said, there is still lots of room left on the master volume, but after 1:00 I just dont know how much louder its going to go. My band is a 3 piece and plays roots rock & rockabilly and we were not playing super loud... sort of average rock band volume I guess. At any rate, I am not confident that the LMII will be loud enough with its 300w at 8 ohms with this cab. It might just barely be able to do it. I do have a poweramp enroute and I will have alot more watts to drive this cab with.

The one big negative of this cab for me is that while its super light at 42LBS, its a pretty tight squeeze to get it into my car. Major bummer there as the whole reason I bought this cab was to try utilize a one cab solution. I gig upwards of 5 times a month and I hate wrestling with gear as it really diminishes the whole gigging experience for me.

Anyway, the cab sounds very nice, looks great and is quite portable. Looking forward to see how it does on the gig.
 
#588
::::BASSIST:::: said:
The one big negative of this cab for me is that while its super light at 42LBS, its a pretty tight squeeze to get it into my car.
Click to expand...

At least it just about fits, imagine if it didn't at all! ;)

Regarding the power you have and the bass EQ voicing, try actually turning down the lows, which will free up some power. Also bear in mind that higher voiced bass EQ tends to cause more masking problems then a lower voicing.

Alex
 
#590
What's the concensus on the right crossover for this cab? Seems like the 1200hz x-over would work fine since the 3015LF tops out at about 1250hz. Logically, crossing over before that would waste the Kappalite's capability in favor of the smaller 18sound mid driver. Don said he prefers the 1200 on the two-way cab, and 800 on the 3-way. Side note: he said he thinks the higher crossover is closer to 1100, not 1200. Just wondering what those of you who've played this a while are favoring. Thanks.
 
#591
Btw: the "off" position on the LDS attenuator is about -6db instead of -3db on the mid, so not really "off."

The ~1100hz crossover works and people like it, but you need to keep in mind that crossovers are not sliced neatly. They are -12 or -18db per octave, so there's a lot of bleed through if you have an 18db @ 1100/1200hz.

I am really, really happy with mine, which I believe wound up being 18db/24db @ 700hz roughly. Super clean, almost no noticeable transition between drivers at all. None of that nasty 3015LF breakup.
 
#592
rpsands said:
Btw: the "off" position on the LDS attenuator is about -6db instead of -3db on the mid, so not really "off."

The ~1100hz crossover works and people like it, but you need to keep in mind that crossovers are not sliced neatly. They are -12 or -18db per octave, so there's a lot of bleed through if you have an 18db @ 1100/1200hz.

I am really, really happy with mine, which I believe wound up being 18db/24db @ 700hz roughly. Super clean, almost no noticeable transition between drivers at all. None of that nasty 3015LF breakup.
Click to expand...

Have to confess: I'm not technical and don't understand the qualifying data reference to 18db/24db. I do understand the signal crosses over at a certain point. Why would you want the 3015LF to cross over so far below its charted peak of 1250hz? Also, what does the reference to "nasty 3015LF breakup" mean? Thanks for clarifying to us non-engineers. :)
 
#593
Look at a chart showing signal to each driver in a crossover. You'll see what I'm saying. the FEarful thread has a couple of these...

I think this page might be instructive too:
http://www.bcae1.com/xoorder.htm

Basically if you cross over at ~1200hz, you will get a lot of content from 1500hz (and even quite a bit higher) bleeding through even a 24db/octave crossover, but much worse with a 12db/octave. With a 12db/octave crossover it's probably around -3db by 1500hz (just guestimating here).

So crossing over lower is to make sure that it's nearly inaudible by the time you get to the nasty midrange distortion of the 3015/3012LF.
 
#595
Just to be clear I think Don/Ralf have concocted something a little more clever than just a 12db LR @ 1100hz or whatever, as Ralf is well aware of the high mid characteristics of the 3015LF (we've discussed it at length and he has done a lot of xovers for that driver).

But, the bleed through is the main reason you'd want to cross over far lower to get rid of the nasty mid peaks of the 3015LF.

The other big reason is off-axis response, as you might have some off-axis response holes if you cross the 15 over too high.
 
#596
rpsands said:
I think you will be impressed with how deceiving the solo volume is.
It gets ridiculously loud with no distortion so your ears think it's way quieter than it is.
I thought it was quite quiet even cranked until I hooked it up in practice and was drowning everyone in bass :)
Click to expand...

Chef said:
concur; 100%
What I thought was "pretty cool loud" at home tuned out to be crushing at rehearsal,
and plenty more than enough at gigs.
Click to expand...
agreed with both statements ...

i've been using my 15/6.5 cab with a couple of different amps .

first was the Fender Bassman 300Pro , sounded very nice at practice levels ,
but seemed to breakup at higher gig volume .
{ i'm pretty sure the problem may be the amp , not the cab...}:ninja:

next , i tried it with my Stewart 2.1 { 1300 watts bridged @ 8 ohms...} and Aguilar DB659 ,
and have been using this combo for the past three gigs ...
texaspride003-1.gif


awesome .

excellent bottom end , and the 6" driver really adds to the mid-range punch .
tight and light .

it's making me think about selling my old Berg cabs ...
:hiding:
:D:D
 
#597
I didn't like the Berg NV215 even a little.
It felt like big, indistinct low end, with very little mid and no high content...to me, ymmv, etc. I couldn't make it work for me.
The Mesa Diesel 3015's *killed*; and in fact, I liked them better than a 3015LF/6.5...the way the 3015's mid/high end content sounded when pushed was really nice.

I may yet try a 15/6/horn; but I'm pretty happy with the other junk I have laying about right now.
 
#598
Chef said:
I didn't like the Berg NV215 even a little.
It felt like big, indistinct low end, with very little mid and no high content...to me, ymmv, etc. I couldn't make it work for me.
The Mesa Diesel 3015's *killed*; and in fact, I liked them better than a 3015LF/6.5...the way the 3015's mid/high end content sounded when pushed was really nice.

I may yet try a 15/6/horn; but I'm pretty happy with the other junk I have laying about right now.
Click to expand...

Wow, that sounds like pretty much the opposite of my experience with the NV215. I guess that just adds credence to the tagline, YMMV. Either that, your your NV215 was pooched.

Tom.
 
#599
It was brand new!
That mid driver just didn't deliver enough shine for me. In clubs, it was just a mess, again; for me.
I know a lot of guys like them. On stage, it was too big, and too dark.
Out in the room, it was ok, but, not my sound.
 
#600
Chef said:
It was brand new!
That mid driver just didn't deliver enough shine for me. In clubs, it was just a mess, again; for me.
I know a lot of guys like them. On stage, it was too big, and too dark.
Out in the room, it was ok, but, not my sound.
Click to expand...

It's that "indistinct low end" that seems so bizarre. I have always found my NV215 to have just about the tightest (but still DEEP) lows I have heard. If you were really into those Boogie 1x15's, though, I could see where maybe the NV215 would be too big in the low end for you.
 

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