Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

[rpsands]

I know it's not a ringing endorsement for most, but Marc from Dr. Bass has been singing the praises of both some new Faital mids and woofers recently - I guess they're going in the 15.6 cab he's working on. He claims the 15's have a much nicer top end than 3015LFs and you can cross them over quite a bit higher.

Have to take some of that with a grain of salt because nothing is going to change the dispersion characteristics of a 15, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more

I am especially interested in that 5" midrange neo, as if they can wind up getting the response on that cleaned up you could do some really nice sounding stuff a lot smaller. Or you could make a lot of 4x10s sound a lot better.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

I really didn't hear that in the recording. Maybe it's just my junky computer speakers

+1, that recording sounded very old-school and dark to me. If I didn't know it was your ash/maple Sadowsky with SS rounds, I would have thought it was an alder/RW J bass with very old nickel rounds. Hmm, my tone is much brighter than that.

 

[KJung]

+1, that recording sounded very old-school and dark to me. If I didn't know it was your ash/maple Sadowsky with SS rounds, I would have thought it was an alder/RW J bass with very old nickel rounds. Hmm, my tone is much brighter than that.

Man, you guys must have some suck systems. That stack has so much zing on top, I had to actually engage the VTC when I slapped a little bit. I just listened again, and there is a TON of 6K+ going on. Again, the tweeters were set at noon, and you can tame it down.

That being said, I would agree that the stack is not 'bright' (i.e., lot's of upper mids/lower treble). The top end is much more 'modern' than your cab, or the two ways that I've had the pleasure playing. So, more old school up through the mids, with a nice modern upper treble horn type presence.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

Man, you guys must have some suck systems. That stack has so much zing on top, I had to actually engage the VTC when I slapped a little bit. I just listened again, and there is a TON of 6K+ going on. Again, the tweeters were set at noon, and you can tame it down.

That being said, I would agree that the stack is not 'bright' (i.e., lot's of upper mids/lower treble). The top end is much more 'modern' than your cab, or the two ways that I've had the pleasure playing. So, more old school up through the mids, with a nice modern upper treble horn type presence.

Just for reference, do you find this tone bright: It's an alder/RW J bass with old La Bella flats though a Mesa Walkabout combo. About as old school as you can get! Yet, it sounds brighter than your clip to me

 

[KJung]

Just for reference, do you find this tone bright: It's an alder/RW J bass with old La Bella flats though a Mesa Walkabout combo. About as old school as you can get! Yet, it sounds brighter than your clip to me

All I hear is midrange in that clip... no bass, no treble... bright but nothing else to my ear.

Again, are you saying you can't hear that massive upper treble on the clip I put up, even in the slap section. It is just sizzling way up top. Again, I would agree it isn't 'bright', like full of ganky upper mids. It is fat down low, full in the mid mids, polite in the upper mids, and very aggressive in the upper treble... classic two way cab with tweeter to my ear.

The tone of this stack is a good representation of cabs some of us describe as 'having the tweeter sitting on top of the sound'... very full, even, fat, somewhat old school low end, with that airy sizzle up top if you want it.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

All I hear is midrange in that clip... no bass, no treble... bright but nothing else to my ear.

Again, are you saying you can't hear that massive upper treble on the clip I put up, even in the slap section. It is just sizzling way up top. Again, I would agree it isn't 'bright', like full of ganky upper mids. It is fat down low, full in the mid mids, polite in the upper mids, and very aggressive in the upper treble... classic two way cab with tweeter to my ear.

The tone of this stack is a good representation of cabs some of us describe as 'having the tweeter sitting on top of the sound'... very full, even, fat, somewhat old school low end, with that airy sizzle up top if you want it.

That's what I hear in the video. I was expecting super fat/warm/dark/thick but the sound is focused heavily in the upper mids.

I can definitely hear that pristine upper treble sparkle, but the fingerstyle tone is fat, warm, dark, and old school. It sounds absolutely awesome, but I was just saying it's not what I would expect from that setup.

 

[KJung]

That's what I hear in the video. I was expecting super fat/warm/dark/thick but the sound is focused heavily in the upper mids.

I can definitely hear that pristine upper treble sparkle, but the fingerstyle tone is fat, warm, dark, and old school. It sounds absolutely awesome, but I was just saying it's not what I would expect from that setup.

It's quite a different tone than, for example, a 410 cab with tweeter, or similarly, the 15/6's, etc.

I like it a lot... and you describe it nicely.... fat, warm, dark, old school, but with that upper treble click and a touch of lower treble grind (even on the fingerstyle stuff to my ear) that makes it a unique voicing to me... like... well, 15's and a modern tweeter

While the mid response is much better to my ear with the LDS, this stack has a little bit of the old Bergantino HT vibe (HT322, HT210, HT115), which also had that sort of big, fat, warm, voicing down low, but then everything from the upper mids/lower treble on up going through those big horn tweeters. So, you get a much more modern top end combined with big and fat down low. What you aren't hearing is that upper mid paper cone tone 'growl and grind' that your cab does so wonderfully, but rather the more pure, hi fi top end coming out of those big, powerful horns crossed over quite low.

 

[Bluesy Soul]

Hey Ken, thanks for posting another review and clip. FWIW, on Ryan's YouTube clip, I also hear almost exclusively mids/upper mids. To be honest, I only hear an old, warm, low end on your clip--but not the sparlking highs you describe. My Klipsch THX speakers reproduce most recordings pretty well, so I think the upper mids and highs you describe are somehow being cut out (for some of us, anyway) when it comes through.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I know it's not a ringing endorsement for most, but Marc from Dr. Bass has been singing the praises of both some new Faital mids and woofers recently - I guess they're going in the 15.6 cab he's working on. He claims the 15's have a much nicer top end than 3015LFs and you can cross them over quite a bit higher.

Have to take some of that with a grain of salt because nothing is going to change the dispersion characteristics of a 15, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more

I am especially interested in that 5" midrange neo, as if they can wind up getting the response on that cleaned up you could do some really nice sounding stuff a lot smaller. Or you could make a lot of 4x10s sound a lot better.

You went there

I totally love these discussions about these new 2 way and 3 way designs until....We get to the 4x10 bashing. There are just so many 4x10 cabinets that I just love the sound of and feel need zero improvement. I sometimes wonder where other peoples ears are at in comparison to me....

 

[KJung]

Hey Ken, thanks for posting another review and clip. FWIW, on Ryan's YouTube clip, I also hear almost exclusively mids/upper mids. To be honest, I only hear an old, warm, low end on your clip--but not the sparlking highs you describe. My Klipsch THX speakers reproduce most recordings pretty well, so I think the upper mids and highs you describe are somehow being cut out (for some of us, anyway) when it comes through.

Interesting. Something must be going on with the hosting site I use and some software or something! Oh well. At least you got to see what they look like

Trust me, those tweeters just SCREAM on those cabs (if you choose to dial them up). I'm sorry my clip doesn't represent them well. If anyone has any idea as to why, I'd like to know.

 

[KJung]

You went there

I totally love these discussions about these new 2 way and 3 way designs until....We get to the 4x10 bashing. There are just so many 4x10 cabinets that I just love the sound of and feel need zero improvement. I sometimes wonder where other peoples ears are at in comparison to me....

I love my 410's also!

 

[rpsands]

You went there

I totally love these discussions about these new 2 way and 3 way designs until....We get to the 4x10 bashing. There are just so many 4x10 cabinets that I just love the sound of and feel need zero improvement. I sometimes wonder where other peoples ears are at in comparison to me....

Lots of 4x10s sound like absolute crap too, because of atrocious midrange dispersion or inadequate low end extension, or just poor drivers.

A cab like an SVT410HLF for example, sounds great to a lot of ears - tons of lows and low mids, not atrocious highs, etc. But the 410HLF also has a huge lack of mids above 600-1000hz or so from what I can tell. Cut out the horn, throw a beefy midrange driver in there and you might have a cab that'd suit a lot more people.

Another good example of a mod-worthy cab is the Avatar 2x12. Plenty of space for a 5" mid in there which might give you the mids it's lacking.

Anyway, plenty of 4x10s sound good, but a lot of them would benefit from a loud 5" mid (which makes great use of limited baffle space).

 

[KJung]

A cab like an SVT410HLF for example, sounds great to a lot of ears - tons of lows and low mids, not atrocious highs, etc. But the 410HLF also has a huge lack of mids above 600-1000hz or so from what I can tell. Cut out the horn, throw a beefy midrange driver in there and you might have a cab that'd suit a lot more people.

The 410HLS is, IMO, one of the worst cabinets that has ever been produced. I surely wouldn't use that as an example of a 410. Even those who love 410's, for the most part, hate that heavy, muddy dog.

 

[rpsands]

The 410HLS is, IMO, one of the worst cabinets that has ever been produced. I surely wouldn't use that as an example of a 410. Even those who love 410's, for the most part, hate that heavy, muddy dog.

I love the bottom on it personally, but it's so scooped it hurts.

I think you'd be surprised though by how many people love that cabinet

 

[peterpalmieri]

The 410HLS is, IMO, one of the worst cabinets that has ever been produced. I surely wouldn't use that as an example of a 410. Even those who love 410's, for the most part, hate that heavy, muddy dog.

+1 doesn't even begin to describe it....

 

[CH Design]

I really didn't hear that in the recording. Maybe it's just my junky computer speakers

FWIW, I find using headphones makes hearing the differences a lot easier.

 

[dubstylee]

Just remember, with the HLF, not everyone is going for the same sound as you necessarily are. For me personally, when we're doing reggae/dub, like Marley songs for instance, it's absolutely perfect. I pair it with a V4 tube amp and it pushes mids pretty hard, and of course lows as well. Futhermore, this cab needs to be matched with the right head, it doesn't sound like a million bucks with just any amplifier. I love vintage tone off of 60's and 70's recordings. It sounds really big for a 410 cab. It is looser sounding, it is a bass reflex cab with three large ports on the bottom, so I wouldn't expect it to sound as tight as an 810 sealed cab. It's also not for people looking for a hi-fi tone.

 

[greenboy]

Just remember, with the HLF, not everyone is going for the same sound as you necessarily are.

Not to mention there are so many variables. Whether one is listening in the near field or the far field, and whether they EQ accordingly, their strings their touch, their use of PA reinforcement or not, the band mix. We all have out faves and not-faves of course, but there are way to many variables to condem another's choice over the internet. Even hearing them and their gear live, it's a crapshoot.

And this whole sound clip thing is only of limited value even if everybody had the same playback system and acoustics for it. Consider the player, bass, head or preamp and amp, recording setup, and perhaps the largest variable of all right after the player - the local acoustics including floor treatment, and the positioning of cab and microphone. IT's very easy to draw too many conclusions from a very limited sample that may not even represent how various environments and player choices would interact.

Which is not to dump on those who provide gear clip samples, but it's good to realize there are a lot of factors involved and that something may come across differently once in your own local environment - and how you set your enclosures up. Things like using a stand or not, positioning, EQ etc.

 

[KJung]

Just remember, with the HLF, not everyone is going for the same sound as you necessarily are. For me personally, when we're doing reggae/dub, like Marley songs for instance, it's absolutely perfect. I pair it with a V4 tube amp and it pushes mids pretty hard, and of course lows as well. Futhermore, this cab needs to be matched with the right head, it doesn't sound like a million bucks with just any amplifier. I love vintage tone off of 60's and 70's recordings. It sounds really big for a 410 cab. It is looser sounding, it is a bass reflex cab with three large ports on the bottom, so I wouldn't expect it to sound as tight as an 810 sealed cab. It's also not for people looking for a hi-fi tone.

+1 My comment was a bit harsh on that cab. I don't dig it at all... but that doesn't necessarily make it 'bad', of course.

 

[KJung]

Not to mention there are so many variables. Whether one is listening in the near field or the far field, and whether they EQ accordingly, their strings their touch, their use of PA reinforcement or not, the band mix. We all have out faves and not-faves of course, but there are way to many variables to condem another's choice over the internet. Even hearing them and their gear live, it's a crapshoot.

And this whole sound clip thing is only of limited value even if everybody had the same playback system and acoustics for it. Consider the player, bass, head or preamp and amp, recording setup, and perhaps the largest variable of all right after the player - the local acoustics including floor treatment, and the positioning of cab and microphone. IT's very easy to draw too many conclusions from a very limited sample that may not even represent how various environments and player choices would interact.

Which is not to dump on those who provide gear clip samples, but it's good to realize there are a lot of factors involved and that something may come across differently once in your own local environment.

And, another +1 on that also. The best you can do on these types of clips is keep everything as constant as you can, clearly describe, in the case of these cab clips, the amp, the tone settings of the amp, the bass, the pickups, the strings, etc., and then let 'er rip. Of course, it is still just a snapshot, but with as much held constant, it is pretty cool to hear the differences in the nature of the top end, and the absolute 'size' of the low end, etc.

Of course, to your point, another guy doing the same clip with a tube amp and a PBass with flatwounds would result in a very different impression of each of the cabs.