I finalized a very similar order with Don yesterday, only I'm getting a fEarful 15/6Tube (no tweeter).
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Low Down Sound Cab Club started!
- Thread starter agfrag
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I finalized a very similar order with Don yesterday, only I'm getting a fEarful 15/6Tube (no tweeter).
Just a heads up that if you are not firm and very specific about the crossover, it'll get decided for you in the background most likelySuggest you make up your mind on that as soon as he gets started building.
+1. I'd actually been in on-and-off communication with Don for nearly a month before we made the deal and more of our discussions were about crossovers, L-pads, etc. than any other topics. Don will build it your way. You just have to be upfront and clear about what you want. He has suggestions based on a wealth of experience which, IMO, deserve serious consideration and discussion. In the end, he will build to my (fEarful) specs and I can change my mind anytime prior to the actual build.
I'm anxious to add my retro-looking tone monster to my blues band's tweed line-up!
I gotta admit I'm kinda GASin' for a Mesa M9 Carbine to pump through my 15/6.5 cab. Anybody tried that combo yet? I've tried an M9, but it was through a Mesa cab.
There was something funky going on with the site regarding posting pictures yesterday when I posted. Here's a shot of the 212/6/1 cab, next to my TecAmp s212, which is about the size of a typical 210 cab (i.e., it's a very small 212).
I don't see a fEarful there. Usually what I see is a lot of people who don't get a lot of the design concepts doing something that has a casual resemblance, but beyond what drivers to use a lot of the other stuff whizzes right by. And any deeper analysis or discussion somehow get chumped down to "410 killer".
Somehow my statements like "given sufficient power, can make more broadband SPL with less distortion than (whatever) cab" into: "claims that it's a 410 killer". Well, that sure didn't come from me. I don't consider that it should have to sound like a 410 in every clip someone might make, and a clip sure isn't going to indicate that much about its true nature anyway. Nor is a few hours with one maybe, unless maybe it's at a problematic gig. For some it might hit them like a sledgehammer, for others it may be about acclimatization. Or they can just not get it.
I consider a lot of other qualities in fEarful performance and design just as important as, uh, its apparent ability to be argued about and spun off into unrelated designs that make money for someone who's not me. But there are plenty of choices out there, once all the internet nuttery is dispensed with. I'm just happy I have cabs that satisfy me - both as a player and a listener - in a way nothing else out there has.
So I don't get the "410 killer" bit. But as far as SPL it's real simple. Even without the mid-driver and a properly voiced crossover, a 1212/6 is as sensitive as a typical efficient 310, and probably a few 410s in the range above 100 Hz. But due to its greater sensitivity at the low end, and its greater displacement limited power handling, it can keep on handling what even a 610 might balk at. If you have the power. Add in a proper crossover and a screamin' mid driver and it can do that higher up as well, and sound as aggressive as all hell.
But it's not voiced like a 410. Unless one EQ's it that way. It can be voiced a lot or other ways too. It isn't as limited to being only "one way". It's a lot more revealing about even subtle EQ changes over a broader swath of frequencies.
I like to grind. Actually I like to sound nasty a lot of the time. i often play music that should be that way. I think Ken's predispositions and limited time with this stuff keeps him from turning the distortion to 11, or instead, cranking a few frequencies and killing a few others and seeing how truly good these cabs are at doing a lot of different tonal profiles well. That's cool, but don't think it can't get STANK and CRANK. It takes a lot of clips to touch more bases.
Now another point. If the driver placements on the baffle, and the crossover allow - designs of the fEarful type done right are way better at filling a room evenly. Less likely to "mud up" even though one might be demanding scads of low end. Frankly I care about this as much as the incredibly limited one-position bass player perspective, because I know a lot of people don't always get PA support. I want them to sound as good as possible to the audience, and for the band mix not to get so trashed either on stage or out there in the room.
Anyway. This is a 60.4 pound fEarful with tiltback wheels and handle. Add a good waveguide and compression driver and a beefy highpass crossover for them and you maybe add 4 pounds. It's got enough venting to not wander in tuning when a megawatts is driven hard to it, and not make chuffies if there's reggaedom kingdom comin' on.
Would there be much performance difference between these two build styles?
I would think not
However, every tweak on a cab design adds its own little audio impact (I've never heard two different cabs sound identical, whether they be 112's or 410's or whatever), and every one of these two and three way designs that I've played had their own subtle tonal signature (although, for the most part, they were all quite similar). Again, Don has been building two and three way cabs for many, many, many years, so this is nothing new to him.The Faital mid driver sounds different than the 18sound (a bit more airy and crisp), and different crossovers and crossover points change the mid and top end of these cabs a touch, as does, of course, adding a tweeter.
This particular cab I reviewed sounded WONDERFUL to my ears, and was loaded up with options (heavy duty spray on cover, heavy duty tilt back castor design, etc.). Don went with an 'in-line driver design with tube ports' versus the offset design with a shelf port in this one, which is why it looks a touch different from the other cab pictured.
There are many ways to build a wonderful box for these particular drivers, and this one really works to my ears. It sounds nothing like my 410's, but for many, that would be a good thing.
Exactly.....and that's why, as greenboy states in the above quoted post, that any variants are not fEarfuls, although they might share the same components and/or some other attributes.
I'm not a fEarful owner yet, but the dedication to detail that GB has exhibited in this design is a major reason my next cab will be one. Remember, he designed this for his own personal use, and along the way, decided to share with us. Heck, I'm not "golden eared", and probably can't hear many of the subtle differences, but I've been a proponent of a "faithful reproducer cab" for several years now, and all the design concepts fall in line with my desires. I will however, have a pro (probably LDS) execute the build for me.
On a side note, with several popular products designed to create certain sonic effects upstream (such as the VT Pedal, modelers, etc.), it only makes sense to have the most accurate cab possible to take advantage of the actual intent of these type products.
+1 on your other comments, and the LDS cabs I've played that were closely based on Greenboy's design sounded very good to me, as did the others. No downside to spec an LDS any way you want... that is the beauty of the LDS business model... totally custom (and why that can be a little overwhelming also).
I guess I would 'partially' agree with your above comment. If, again, you find that pedals, modelers, etc. sound good to you, then +1. I again have never found an 'effect' (distortion pedals, etc.) that sound like the 'real thing' (i.e., a tube amp breaking up, or the drivers running full range grinding in the upper mids, as Chef has also pointed out). That's pure personal taste, and there are lots of ways to 'get to your sound'.
I personally would not be happy with one of these cabs (the 'LF with mid driver design') for my particular tone goals (although I am considering getting a 'copy' of Ryan's 115 one way cab... gosh that cab just blew me away... and of course as you can hopefully hear from the clips I posted, sounds totally different from the two way designs, all other things being equal!), and even though I guess you could use massive EQ and pedals to 'make a 15/6 sound like something else', that makes very little sense to me.
If, on the other hand, you want a very pure, deep, wide response with virtually no midrange distortion, and to remove that unique (IMO) tone that comes from the top end of a driver running full range, these types of designs are great.
Again, I played many of Don's two and three way mid driver designs over the past 5 years, and there wasn't one that didn't have this sort of 'tone profile'... wide, clean, smooth, polite (and yes, they all had their subtle tone character differences). Not my thing personally, but a GREAT option for many!
Right, and I'm sure I'd find them good also. I guess a lot of it is just knowing that the design is right in line with my goals.
I don't use pedals as a rule but several SVT lovers have shown some love for that VT. I've just always kind of wondered about the sonic effects of a product that's supposed to emulate a certain brand, but used with an amp that already has it's own coloration or sonic footprint. Like, if you play a VT pedal through an SVT, does it sound like a twice as much as an SVT? Does that make any sense?
And that is what I want. Being on staff for years at a great studio made me want that clean, studio monitor sound that can be adjusted elsewhere if desired.
You know, Hi-Fi companies for years have strived to develop the most neutral, accurate tone possible, and in the electronics end, have virtually succeeded. But when it comes to the loudspeakers, they all sound different
Right, and I'm sure I'd find them good also. I guess a lot of it is just knowing that the design is right in line with my goals.
I don't use pedals as a rule but several SVT lovers have shown some love for that VT. I've just always kind of wondered about the sonic effects of a product that's supposed to emulate a certain brand, but used with an amp that already has it's own coloration or sonic footprint. Like, if you play a VT pedal through an SVT, does it sound like a twice as much as an SVT? Does that make any sense?
And that is what I want. Being on staff for years at a great studio made me want that clean, studio monitor sound that can be adjusted elsewhere if desired.
You know, Hi-Fi companies for years have strived to develop the most neutral, accurate tone possible, and in the electronics end, have virtually succeeded. But when it comes to the loudspeakers, they all sound different
+1 to all the above. Lot's of great options out there, and lot's of different 'tone delivery' concepts in bass amplification these days!
If I was a dubber, or sought an 'uber clean' Anthony Jackson type fingerstyle tone, or a VERY modern, clean 'no grit' Mark King type slap tone, I would be ALL over an LDS executed fEarful 15/6/tweeter driven by a Puma1000... period. Simply an amazing clean, pure but still 'musical with character' rig that is massively loud (based on my experience with my Puma500 and interpolating the impact of almost tripling the watts with the 1000 into 8ohms), small and lightweight, and full range.
There is something 'magic' about the TecAmp head voicing with these types of cabs IMO. Don just LOVES this pairing.
+1 to all the above. Lot's of great options out there, and lot's of different 'tone delivery' concepts in bass amplification these days!
If I was a dubber, or sought an 'uber clean' Anthony Jackson type fingerstyle tone, or a VERY modern, clean 'no grit' Mark King type slap tone, I would be ALL over an LDS executed fEarful 15/6/tweeter driven by a Puma1000... period. Simply an amazing clean, pure but still 'musical with character' rig that is massively loud (based on my experience with my Puma500 and interpolating the impact of almost tripling the watts with the 1000 into 8ohms
If you could only use one of these cabs to do the majority of your gigs, which one would it be?
There is something 'magic' about the TecAmp head voicing with these types of cabs IMO. Don just LOVES this pairing.
It your question was directed toward me, again, I personally wouldn't use any of the two way with mid driver cabs... beautiful sounding but again, not completely my thing. My tone goal is a bit more 'rough and punchy and grindy'. I continue to enjoy my 410's, and between the 410UL and AE410 with various heads, I've been happy with my tone, volume and projection on and off stage for quite a few years now.
However, IF I was interested in the tone profiles I mention above (or, I guess, interested in 'electronically' generating the tone that I like that currently comes from my cabs), it would be an LDS executed 15/6 fEarful with a Puma1000... loud, clean, wide, fat, lightweight, even, smooth, clean, pure.......
Edit: If I was playing a modern blues type gig (Robben Ford, etc.), a couple of those LDS 3015 cabs like Ryan has would be killer.... punchy and GRINDY without the more modern touches of my 410's (i.e., big down low and more extended up top).
Cool. I asked our buddy Chef, who is both a moderator and an LDS fan, to shut this thread down and start 'version II' for us.
Chef
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