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Low Down Sound Club: V2

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#881
CDweller:

Because of the crossover, having the 12" drivers staggered is not a beaming concern.

I would strongly recommend a pair of 12/6 cabs over a 12sub. The savings on a 12sub is not that huge, and having two identical cabs is of amazing utility in a lot of situations (e.g. leave one at two different practice spaces).
 
#882
KJung said:
Hey Roger! You are up early also!

+1... the Faital nicely fills the gap for those who want a more 'modern' tone than a one way or two way cab with the 18Sound (i.e., smoother upper mids and that bit of space between the upper mids and treble) but who don't want all the sizzle and larger space between the top end of the driver and a more typical 'tweeter'.

Hope your amp is coming along! I look forward to checking one out!
Click to expand...

Hey Ken, Things are coming along, Getting a company going in this economy is challenging to say the least.

Another thing I like on that Faital driver is that a small EQ bump at 3K makes up for that natural upper mid dip and really makes this driver very versatile. You can get that stronger midrange tone or a fairly convincing tweeter tone out of it with a little tweak from your EQ section.
 
#884
rpsands said:
CDweller:
[...]
I would strongly recommend a pair of 12/6 cabs over a 12sub. The savings on a 12sub is not that huge, and having two identical cabs is of amazing utility in a lot of situations (e.g. leave one at two different practice spaces).
Click to expand...

That's what I would have done if I wanted two cabinets.

Something else to consider - I chose the 2x12 @ 4 Ohms because my Carvin B2000 is rated to go down to 2 Ohms... on paper. So this 4 Ohms cabinet can still be regarded as "the first half" of my outrageous thunder rig. I chose against the 2x15 arrangement because of cabinet size, cost, and because (according to the specs) my amp has healthy headroom with the 2x12s but not so with the 2x15.

If, instead, I were looking for an 8 Ohm cabinet, I would have gone with a 15/6/1, or a pair of them. Be sure to weigh the pros and cons of the 12/6 and the 15/6.
 
#885
So if the 3015lf is 450 watts and the 18 sound 6.5 was something like 150w and the cab has a crossover so you are not supplying them both full at any time, and you need some headroom etc what's the minimum watt head for Rock/Blues?
500 watt micro head for a 15/6. Can a new Shuttle 9.0 do OK for a 1515/66 or would one need a 1- 2k amp for such a monster.
Note I have no interest in biamping. I go by the K.I.S.S. theory. Thanks
 
#889
Quick question for you guys. Is Don making his own "versions" of the fEarfuls by choice or because GB doesn't want any produced for anything other than our own personal rigs? Another question - how much different do the 12/6 and 15/6 sound with the round ports vs. the GB design with slot ports? I like the round ports because it allows for a full face grill, but if the slots sound better, I'd go that route. Then again, the shelf could be cut so it ends up flush with the baffle board and then put a full grill on it - unless that would affect the intended specs (since you'd be shortening the port). Thanks in advance for any input you may have on these issues.
 
#890
Yes, he makes changes so the cab has better construction.

bwoodman said:
Quick question for you guys. Is Don making his own "versions" of the fEarfuls by choice or because GB doesn't want any produced for anything other than our own personal rigs? Another question - how much different do the 12/6 and 15/6 sound with the round ports vs. the GB design with slot ports? I like the round ports because it allows for a full face grill, but if the slots sound better, I'd go that route. Then again, the shelf could be cut so it ends up flush with the baffle board and then put a full grill on it - unless that would affect the intended specs (since you'd be shortening the port). Thanks in advance for any input you may have on these issues.
Click to expand...
 
#891
bwoodman said:
Quick question for you guys. Is Don making his own "versions" of the fEarfuls by choice or because GB doesn't want any produced for anything other than our own personal rigs? Another question - how much different do the 12/6 and 15/6 sound with the round ports vs. the GB design with slot ports? I like the round ports because it allows for a full face grill, but if the slots sound better, I'd go that route. Then again, the shelf could be cut so it ends up flush with the baffle board and then put a full grill on it - unless that would affect the intended specs (since you'd be shortening the port). Thanks in advance for any input you may have on these issues.
Click to expand...

Don has been making two way cabs with mid drivers for as long as I can remember. Don does not really have a line of cabinets. Every cab is a custom request, and he rarely builds two that are identical.

The box dimensions are pretty much defined by the requirements of the speakers, and port location and type has very little impact on the tone of these cabs. One thing Don has done based on all the 12/6 and 15/6 requests he is getting driven by the GB thing, is to offer a crossover and mid driver that is similar 'in spirit' to the fEarful stuff, with a super high quality mid driver (either the 18Sound or Faital, based on the cab and customers tone goals), the LF woofers, and a relatively low crossover point (800hz).

I've played a number of 15/6 LDS cabs.... tall and thin with bottom slot port, short and squat with rear tube ports, less tall and still thin with front tube ports. They sounded virtually identical to me.

The 12/6 and 15/6, with the same mid driver and relatively similar crossover, sound very similar. Of course, the 15/6 is a larger box with a bigger driver, so it will get a LOT louder.

It's as you would suspect. In order of volume capability:

12/6
15/6
1212/6
1515/66

IME!
 
#893
The issue with the round ports is there's less overall area and it's covered by a grill which reduces the effective area further. It limits your maximum amount of volume severely.***

It seems to me like Don tends to design his porting so that you get port noise a bit early to maximize the protection for your driver (which I understand) but these drivers have more excursion available than thermal power (really unusual) -- so if you want to exceed thermal power handling occasionally for loud dynamics or something you might get more port noise with the tube ports.

Just my tuppence, but I'd always, always go with Greenboy's slot ports.

*** The limit is still insanely loud, mind you, so they're good cabs, but not quite optimizing the amount of available excursion.
 
#894
Recognizing that bass cabs are typically excursion limited not thermal limited [most bass cabs fart out long before they burn out] GreenBoy designed and tuned a large port into the fEarful line in order to match the extraordinary excursion capabilities of the 301xLF series of woofers. Ignoring this design feature and building instead a cab with lesser port area diminishes the utilization of this feature of these woofers.

This is a bad design choice, because it diminishes the key performance enhancement of the fEarful design concept [raising up the excursion limit to the range of the thermal limit - you can drive the cab to the thermal performance edge without farting out].

Reducing the port area on a fEarful is a bad idea IMO with no appreciable benefit. You won't realize that unless/until you drive the cab very hard. But that doesn't make it a reasonable design choice - why cripple the excursion limit? Makes zero sense to me.
 
#895
On the other hand, round ports look very cool, and the slot ports look ... well, square. Also, and more important for me, covering the ports is a crucial requirement for living in the country where critters are known to sneak into homes and music studios and crawl inside wide open, inviting slot ports in fEarful-style cabs. And frankly, with all the watts at my disposal, wanting for more volume has *never* been a problem. My round-port "nearfEarfuls" sound amazing. Good work, Don!
 
#896
I feel your pain - having once found a snake in a sub woofer - but putting mesh over a port [provided you use a grill material of sufficient porosity] can be done pretty cheap/easy without compromising performance. You can even make it look fancy without much trouble if you like.

As to round looking cool... I am immune from the charms of the round port versus the square one [or freaking octagonal for that matter]. The rational question to me is should one trade off performance arising from straight forward physics for aesthetic sensibilities arising from opinions on the proper shape of holes, and the idea that hole shape is more important makes about as much sense to me as putting the wrong power tubes in your amp because you prefer one brand's logo over the other.

My $0.02
 
#897
bwoodman said:
Quick question for you guys. Is Don making his own "versions" of the fEarfuls by choice or because GB doesn't want any produced for anything other than our own personal rigs?...
Click to expand...

KJung said:
Don has been making two way cabs with mid drivers for as long as I can remember. Don does not really have a line of cabinets. Every cab is a custom request, and he rarely builds two that are identical...
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out, Ken. There seems to be a misconception on TB these days that any 12/6, 15/6 cabinet is a fEarful design or some variant of the fEarful. I've even received a couple emails from upset TBers that apparently think I'm "ripping off" Greenboy's design. The mid loaded format goes way back. A fEarful design, is simply that...a cab built directly from the fEarful plans. FWIW, we were working with Eminence on some of the very first 3012 prototypes, 6 months before they became available to the public and the driver we use is a custom version not available to the public. I have great respect for the DIY builders here on TB, but to be clear, every mid loaded cab out there is not some version of a fEarful cab. If I have to credit anyone for my decision to try the mid loaded design, then that falls to BFM, who has been touting the merits of a mid driver on TB for years.
 
#898
Foz said:
I feel your pain - having once found a snake in a sub woofer - but putting mesh over a port [provided you use a grill material of sufficient porosity] can be done pretty cheap/easy without compromising performance. You can even make it look fancy without much trouble if you like.

As to round looking cool... I am immune from the charms of the round port versus the square one [or freaking octagonal for that matter]. The rational question to me is should one trade off performance arising from straight forward physics for aesthetic sensibilities arising from opinions on the proper shape of holes, and the idea that hole shape is more important makes about as much sense to me as putting the wrong power tubes in your amp because you prefer one brand's logo over the other.

My $0.02
Click to expand...

For those who are interested, there is a link on the AcmeBass website to an explanation of the reasons why size does matter--but shape and location do not--when it comes to ports.
 
#899
R Baer said:
Thanks for pointing this out, Ken. There seems to be a misconception on TB these days that any 12/6, 15/6 cabinet is a fEarful design or some variant of the fEarful. I've even received a couple emails from upset TBers that apparently think I'm "ripping off" Greenboy's design. The mid loaded format goes way back. A fEarful design, is simply that...a cab built directly from the fEarful plans. FWIW, we were working with Eminence on some of the very first 3012 prototypes, 6 months before they became available to the public and the driver we use is a custom version not available to the public. I have great respect for the DIY builders here on TB, but to be clear, every mid loaded cab out there is not some version of a fEarful cab. If I have to credit anyone for my decision to try the mid loaded design, then that falls to BFM, who has been touting the merits of a mid driver on TB for years.
Click to expand...

Can I ask for a little info about what is different about your 3012LF?
 
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