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Low Down Sound Club: V2
- Thread starter Chef
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SPL. In my experience with the 12/6, since they are tuned a bit lower than most 210's and 112's, they take a little more wattage to get up to full volume, but will 'take' more wattage and eventually will surpass the vast majority of 112's out there in full, non compressed low end. However, even with that big mid driver, they are not a particularly 'punchy' cab (like the AE210's).
Moving from two AE210's to one of these cabs will result in a very different tone... more deep low end extension, smoother mids, and a very clean, pure upper mid response versus the tight low end, low mid grunt and aggressive upper mid grind coming out of, for example, the AE210's.
So, two 12/6's compared to two AE210's (with the same amp) would have a smoother tone and more absolute low end, but with much less low mid punch. IMO, the AE210's would 'sound louder' in a mix due to the aggressive mid voicing of those cabs.
Depends what you want! I greatly prefer the sound of the upper mids coming from the top end of a driver versus these 12/6 and 15/6 cabs myself, but they are magnificent sounding for what they are.
Thanks Ken! I think we have had this discussion before, I tend to favor more of a "old school" sound. Based on this, it sounds like the fEarful design might work well for me.
They sound good. Whether you go with an exact fEarful spec or spec out the size and format of the cab you want with Don, I've found that they all sound pretty much identical. The internal volume and tuning is pretty much defined by the drivers. It's up to you if you want it tall and thin, or short and wide, rear ports, tube ports, shelf ports, etc. They all sound pretty much the same to me.
I prefer to bi-amp these cabs when I can... I run it bi-amp crossed at about 650 to 700 Hz with the HF down about 9 dB. Bi-amping with Carvin BX1500 looks like a good choice for a 15/6 but weak for the 1515/66 at only 750 watts @ 4 ohms.
I am in overkill mode and drive my 1515/66+1 with an Aguilar DB680 & an I-Tech 4000... not light weight - but it works. These wonderful power amps are currently on sale B-Stock here:
Invalid Link Removed
With a preamp of your choice, the new Peavey IPR series coming out this summer in larger formats might be an excellent lower cost alternative [the IPR 1600 is already out and goes for a mere $300 - DSP version only about $450].
http://www.google.com/search?q=peavey+ipr
My $0.02
I am in overkill mode and drive my 1515/66+1 with an Aguilar DB680 & an I-Tech 4000... not light weight - but it works. These wonderful power amps are currently on sale B-Stock here:
Invalid Link Removed
With a preamp of your choice, the new Peavey IPR series coming out this summer in larger formats might be an excellent lower cost alternative [the IPR 1600 is already out and goes for a mere $300 - DSP version only about $450].
http://www.google.com/search?q=peavey+ipr
My $0.02
If you are very much an old school tone guy you may wish to discuss alternate midrange drivers with Don. The Faitals get reviewed as having more of that kind of tone built in.
The 6nd410 is a great sounding driver and can easily be eq'd to do pretty much any tone, but if you know you want a certain thing, it might be easier to get your sound without extensive eq'ing with the Faital mids.
I'm not really sure but you should definitely check out all your options.
The 6nd410 is a great sounding driver and can easily be eq'd to do pretty much any tone, but if you know you want a certain thing, it might be easier to get your sound without extensive eq'ing with the Faital mids.
I'm not really sure but you should definitely check out all your options.
They do sound different. I actually hear the Faital as much more 'modern'... it is lower SPL and has a bit of a dip in the 2K or so region. So, it sounds just a touch more like a typical two way cab with a tweeter. I like the Faital WAY better than the 18Sound, but I like most two way cabs with traditional full way drivers and a high quality tweeter better than the 15/6's and 12/6's I've played. So, take that into account.
The 18Sound just POUNDS the upper mids out. Since I typically soften the upper mids, that's not the best fit for me. The Faital loaded cabs have a little more of that 'modern' tone built in.. deep lows, even mid mids, and a bit of a cut in the upper mids, then back at it above 3K or whatever.
That being said, the higher SPL of the 18Sound works great with the 212/6 cabs, which are so huge down low that they need that extra ooomph and upper mid definition from theh 18Sound.
If tell Don to 'do what he wants'... he will use the 18Sound in the 15/6's and the 212/6's (and two of them in the 1515/66),a nd the Faital in the 12/6. To my ear, this is a very good thing, and the crossover and Eminence tweeter that Don and Ralf are now using is just beautiful sounding.
The 18Sound really does kick out an unbelievable amount of midrange content. You're also right that it's mostly upper mids.
Like you, in a 2-way cabinet design I typically soften the upper midrange considerably. With my 15/6/1 (3015LF, 6nd410 and Selnium tweeter) I find myself running my Puma1000 dead flat and everything is exactly where I want it. I'll occasionally bump up the low mids a bit, but not much and not very often.
This is the first amp/cab combo I've ever used where all the upper mids come screaming through and I don't think they sound bad. There's something going on with the crossover, the 18Sound midrange driver, the way they blend with the woofer... I'm not sure, but it's definitely SOMETHING that makes the upper mids super forward and yet super pleasant sounding. They (greenboy, Don, Ralf, and all the others I'm missing) really got it right with this type of cab design. Tons of response across the spectrum and yet it all sounds pleasant.
+1 All the clips of these cabs I have up with the Puma are run flat. The TecAmp cabs are VERY upper midrange present, and I think the Puma has a bit of a dip up there to start with to compensate for that. Neither the Puma nor the TecAmp cabs that I've tried sound particularly 'flat', but when you pair them up, the result is very transparent and even, although I still need to cut the upper mids a wee bit with my s212.
Don (and I) also really dig the 18sound with the 15 in the 15/6's, and that is what he recommends and uses. For the 12/6, even padded back, it is a bit much, and we feel the Faital driver (which is lower SPL and also has a dip built in right at the gank area of the upper mids) works well.
The mids aren't filled with the ratty distortion noise a LF woofer puts out 
Most bass cabs have this too, the upper mids are filled with things like this:
My understanding is that a lot of that is related to the low Fs required for putting out bass frequencies (heavy/stiff cone = lower Fs = more midrange breakup) but that's probably an oversimplification.
Most bass cabs have this too, the upper mids are filled with things like this:
My understanding is that a lot of that is related to the low Fs required for putting out bass frequencies (heavy/stiff cone = lower Fs = more midrange breakup) but that's probably an oversimplification.
Trace Elliot V-Type (predecessor to the V4). Sounds amazing! At home. The band situation will dictate if the setup is a keeper of course, but that head sounds great with everything else I've thrown it through, which is to be expected from the Best. Head. Ever.
To clarify, the Trace head is an angry beast. It just sounds mad all the time, but still with a nice tube thickness to it. I have Peavey VB-2 that I'll pair the LDS up to later, that head is more even and squishy sounding, if that makes sense. I'll probably have a better idea of what frequencies this cab favours once I start swapping heads and trying to dial tones in, but so far it's punchy, has a lot of treble for a tweeterless cab, and seems focused toward the lower mids but not aggressively so. Either way, the LDS sounds unreal with fuzz, so I'm happy.
Fellas- lemme ask you guys- I like Jason P. Basses 1212/6/1 a lot,
and think that something of that sort might be for me. Is it possible to do the following:
Get a cab built with the same xover and speakers, but have it built with only one 12-
1) This would be an 8 ohm cab, right?
Concurrently, have another 12" cab built to sit underneath when occasions warrant more volume than a single 12" cab. The extension cab can be built with the speaker centered, so it sits directly underneath the 12 of the 3-way cab.
2) Sitting directly underneath the other 12 would be slightly better for beaming, though probably not noticeably different from the slightly vertically staggered array of the 1212 configuration, right?
3) Lastly, can the lf output of the xover be used to create an output jack on the 3-way cab, patch-corded to the 12" lf cab, and create a 4 ohm load for the amp? Looking for the 3-way cab to operate at 8 ohms when used by itself, and then be able to run a cord from the lf output jack on the 3-way cab to the lf cab underneath, and have the amp see a 4 ohm load.
Thanks, gents. While I'm digging my Carvin LSx1503, there's better sonic goodness to come, I'm sure.
and think that something of that sort might be for me. Is it possible to do the following:
Get a cab built with the same xover and speakers, but have it built with only one 12-
1) This would be an 8 ohm cab, right?
Concurrently, have another 12" cab built to sit underneath when occasions warrant more volume than a single 12" cab. The extension cab can be built with the speaker centered, so it sits directly underneath the 12 of the 3-way cab.
2) Sitting directly underneath the other 12 would be slightly better for beaming, though probably not noticeably different from the slightly vertically staggered array of the 1212 configuration, right?
3) Lastly, can the lf output of the xover be used to create an output jack on the 3-way cab, patch-corded to the 12" lf cab, and create a 4 ohm load for the amp? Looking for the 3-way cab to operate at 8 ohms when used by itself, and then be able to run a cord from the lf output jack on the 3-way cab to the lf cab underneath, and have the amp see a 4 ohm load.
Thanks, gents. While I'm digging my Carvin LSx1503, there's better sonic goodness to come, I'm sure.
A fEarful 12/sub + a 12/6 with the 6ND410 would suit ya I reckon
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Fearful
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Fearful
There is a passive xover for the sub here:
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Greenboy_passive_crossovers#fEarful_12sub
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Greenboy_passive_crossovers#fEarful_12sub
+1 on that Ken. IMO, the Faital sounds a bit more tweeter like than the other mids we tried. That dip in the upper mids and then the rise up around 5k combined with a reach out to almost 10K gives this driver an almost tweeter like feel to it.
Hey Roger! You are up early also!
+1... the Faital nicely fills the gap for those who want a more 'modern' tone than a one way or two way cab with the 18Sound (i.e., smoother upper mids and that bit of space between the upper mids and treble) but who don't want all the sizzle and larger space between the top end of the driver and a more typical 'tweeter'.
Hope your amp is coming along! I look forward to checking one out!
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