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Low Down Sound Club V3

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#321
Passinwind said:
Did he measure the actual net internal volume too, taking into account Don's different bracing scheme? ;)
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I have no way of knowing what the internal bracing method is, and relied on the premise that the cab was built according to the fEarful design, which was my understanding based on discussions with Don prior to purchasing the cab. I did the simple math to determine the volume based on this premise as well.

The technical engineering phrase "good enough" means exactly that. I'm not about to lose any sleep if the cab delivers the goods. If it doesn't, I'll make a decision at that point.

There are usually differences between what was said and what actually transpired, depending on who is reporting the content of a discussion. I mention this because perhaps I had selective hearing when I purchased the cab- I never discount my profound ability to err. Regardless, I've been around too long to lose any peace of mind over the matter. I'd rather give the thing away than obsess about it. I'll bet though, based on my gut feeling after talking with Don, that the thing will be more than fine.
 
#322
CDweller said:
I have no way of knowing what the internal bracing method is, and relied on the premise that the cab was built according to the fEarful design, which was and is my understanding based on discussions with Don prior to purchasing the cab. I did the simple math based on this premise as well.

The technical engineering phrase "good enough" means exactly that. I'm not about to lose any sleep if the cab delivers the goods. If it doesn't, I'll make a decision at that point.
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FWIW, I took much greater liberties in the building of my own 12/6 than what you're talking about. Even, say, a ten percent variance from spec in most things electro-acoustic doesn't amount to much at all in most cases, IME.
 
#324
Foz said:
There was zero room for interpretration or misunderstanding leading to variance from these dimensions.

ZERO.

No... the provided plans, cut sheet and CAD file specifying the build desired were all precise - as was my written work order requesting a quote - as were my verbal inquiries and the replies I received.
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You could have built the cabinet yourself and used your micrometers, depth gauges and calipers, then loaded the cab on a CMM to verify the external dimensions.

My statement about interior volume should have read Don knows better than you about these matters.
 
#325
Listen, if I give someone dimensions and specify that's what I want, I expect that to be it. People have reasons for specifying things like depth (e.g. 18.5" might be too deep to rest in a trunk or back seat) and so on. I expect that if you send Don plans and he agrees to them, he will build to your dimensions.

If I ask for a 35" scale custom bass that weighs 9lbs and someone sells me a 34" scale custom bass that weighs 10lbs because they know better, that ain't gonna fly with me :P

If you send Don a picture of a fEarful and some rough dimensions and say "make me a cab like that," I expect he might take some more liberties. And frankly, the difference between subtracting that inch off the back is something like half a decibel under 60hz, if that -- doubt anyone could detect a difference.
 
#326
eminence says recommended volume in vented cab for 3015lf is 3.6 to 6.8 cu ft. quite a tolerance range.
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I understand what Foz and CD are sayin though.
Greenboy no doubt spec'd the best size.
My guess is what Ken alluded to. Can't really hear the difference at his house, or probably at a club, with a half inch here or there. I ordered my 1515/66 for outdoor w/o pa support so I am hoping Don's design maxes those 15's output potential too.
 
#327
I've got a couple 3015LFs in 3 cubic feet each and they perform great even in those environments, as long as you have sufficient port area. It's not optimal, but a cubic foot smaller can be worth the performance tradeoff for some people.
 
#328
Measured that cab yet, or are we debating a theory?
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Yep its way off... and we aint having a debate because you don't get a vote on my level of customer satisfaction. Moreover, the facts of the transaction [what I ordered, what I paid for, and what I got] are not subject manipualtion through argument or fabrication.

I am merely responding to questions and deflecting false assumptions and assertions.
 
#330
Foz said:
Yep its way off... and we aint having a debate because you don't get a vote on my level of customer satisfaction. Moreover, the facts of the transaction [what I ordered, what I paid for, and what I got] are not subject manipualtion through argument or fabrication.

I am merely responding to questions and deflecting false assumptions and assertions.
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So, what are you going to do? I'm curious as I got one of the early 15/6 fearful cabs from Don.
 
#332
Craig_S said:
You you're basing your satisfaction on the overall size of the item and not on it's performance? Someone having that sort of stance could--possibly--be looked upon as difficult for the sake of being so.
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He's basing his satisfaction on getting what he asked for. To claim he's being anything but fair is absurd.
 
#334
billhilly66 said:
So, what are you going to do? I'm curious as I got one of the early 15/6 fearful cabs from Don.
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I never realized Don did an 'exact' copy of someone else's design. That's not his thing. He is a pure custom shop, and every cab is different. He is constantly messing with stuff.

I've played about 10 of the 15/6's, 12/6's, etc. now, and they are all slightly different in porting, size, layout, and even components and crossovers, and all, to my ear, sound very similar (the main difference is the choice of mid driver to my ear).

He will not 'exactly' copy anyone else's cab or design as far as I know. If you, for example, ask him for an 'Epifani' type 210, he will kind of do that 'tonewise', but I don't think he'd exactly copy the Epi box.

I don't want to get in the middle of this... I again have no formal relationship with Don. However, I don't quite get the issue. I guess if someone literally sent Don specific measurements, he should hit them. If someone said, I want a 'fEarful', my guess is, you will get Don's verson of that (most call Don's 15/6's 'nEarfuls'!), which might be slightly different based on his many discussions with his crossover expert, and his many years of experience, and his own preferences regarding voicing a cab.
 
#336
rpsands said:
Yes, me, and everyone else on the planet except you. If someone agrees to build to plans you've provided, you expect to get what's in the plans.

If Don hedged on agreeing to build to the plans that's one thing, but that's not what Foz is saying.
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We're not talking about a precision ground piece of a finely tuned aircraft, here. What you're complaining about amounts to a minute difference in the stuffing of your recliner. :eyebrow:
 
#337
rpsands said:
Yes, me, and everyone else on the planet except you. If someone agrees to build to plans you've provided, you expect to get what's in the plans.

If Don hedged on agreeing to build to the plans that's one thing, but that's not what Foz is saying.
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I have to agree.
An exacting request deserves an exact product.
I understand he typically said that he would "re-create" a very similar cabint inspired by someone's plans that is one thing.
Stating the changes are only in wood material and bracing, and getting a cab with different measurments is another.

BUT... If it's really the same net internal volume, it is the same net internal volume, and if port tuning is correct, it's correct.

I'm sure itfalls well withiin acceptable range, and for those that weren't exacting in their request and expectations should be more then happy.
But, if the mutual understanding was building ssomething to plans, then the customer has every right to be upset.

If you have an architect custom design your house, and the builder takes excessive liberties in recreating the plans in 3 dimensions, then you would likely be very upset.

All of that said, as an avid reader of the Fearful threads, If Don agrees to build Foz a new, exact to plans cab, then his current one would be a very nice scratch and dent pickup... I'm sure it pounds to well above most expectations.

Few situations are black and white, and this one clearly lives int he greys, as most do. It is a legitimate point to state that the cab functions as desired, and is roughly equivalent, but it's certainly also legitimate to point out that it is NOT what was requested.
 
#338
Craig_S said:
We're not talking about a precision ground piece of a finely tuned aircraft, here. What you're complaining about amounts to a minute difference in the stuffing of your recliner. :eyebrow:
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We're talking about ordering a recliner with a 36" tall back and getting one with a 34" tall back. Maybe that makes it uncomfortable for you to sit in, maybe it doesn't. That's not up to the recliner company to decide for you how tall you want the back of your seat :)
 
#339
rpsands said:
We're talking about ordering a recliner with a 36" tall back and getting one with a 34" tall back. Maybe that makes it uncomfortable for you to sit in, maybe it doesn't. That's not up to the recliner company to decide for you how tall you want the back of your seat :)
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Not even close... You're talking 2"; the rest of the world is talking 1/4".

All I'm trying to say is it's a bit ridiculous to argue dimensions, when you don't have a proper understanding of their affect on the performance of the product.
 
#340
KJung said:
I never realized Don did an 'exact' copy of someone else's design. That's not his thing. He is a pure custom shop, and every cab is different. He is constantly messing with stuff.

I've played about 10 of the 15/6's, 12/6's, etc. now, and they are all slightly different in porting, size, layout, and even components and crossovers, and all, to my ear, sound very similar (the main difference is the choice of mid driver to my ear).

He will not 'exactly' copy anyone else's cab or design as far as I know. If you, for example, ask him for an 'Epifani' type 210, he will kind of do that 'tonewise', but I don't think he'd exactly copy the Epi box.

I don't want to get in the middle of this... I again have no formal relationship with Don. However, I don't quite get the issue. I guess if someone literally sent Don specific measurements, he should hit them. If someone said, I want a 'fEarful', my guess is, you will get Don's verson of that (most call Don's 15/6's 'nEarfuls'!), which might be slightly different based on his many discussions with his crossover expert, and his many years of experience, and his own preferences regarding voicing a cab.
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I don't have a problem with my cab's dimensions. They’re close enough to the specs I gave him what with the coating and all.
 
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