Lowest Frequency Response

[tombowlus]

I was checkin' out the Accu site and the Whappo Jr. interested me.
How pricey are those things? I know they're a pretty penny for sure.

I have a Whappo, Jr., and I used to own an El Whappo. They both have a very big low end, but my Bergantino NV215 goes deeper and stays tighter. Plus, it costs a good bit less. Of course, they are or soon will be discontinued, but if you can find one, that is one fantastic cab.

Tom.

 

[62bass]

The current catalog page on their website claims response to 35Hz with 102dB sensitivity, which no driver made is capable of, and -6dB at 29 Hz, which no driver is capable of either. It doesn't mention neo magnets on the woofers, so perhaps there is a non-catalog version available, but those performance specs are still impossible to acheive.

Just about every manufacturer gives false specs if they give any at all. Thankfully I just go by my ears and I don't think response that low is needed for electric bass. Nothing worse than all that excess bottom end rumbling through the room and screwing up the mix. Most of the guys I hear live playing on their B string have no idea what it does out front.

Of course, I'm just getting too old. I like the sounds from the early days of electric bass.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I have a Whappo, Jr., and I used to own an El Whappo. They both have a very big low end, but my Bergantino NV215 goes deeper and stays tighter. Plus, it costs a good bit less. Of course, they are or soon will be discontinued, but if you can find one, that is one fantastic cab.

Tom.

I've heard a lot of good things about those. I believe a shop down in San Antonio has or had one a month or so back, and maybe I'll give 'em a call. I'm kinda though trying to stick with portability here, otherwise I'd just go get me a Diesel 2x15 again...


I'm right now looking at a pair of Accu Tri112L's or a Tri112 on top of a Tri115.
However, this Accu stuff is really friggin' expensive! Like, I've heard it was, but, I could get a nice Berg HT/EX 112+122S setup for just about what one Accu would cost!

I was also going to ask about the Bergs. I've heard they put out some great bootay, and Bass Central has them on sale right now, so I'm really interested there as well.

Comments?

 

[tombowlus]

Comments?

You want portable, okay, how abut one or two EA VL-210B's? They go crazy low, and again, stay tight. Or Berg HT115/HT210, or for really impressive lows, either a Bergantino IP212 or IP310.

Lots of options. The IP stuff really is the best I have tried, but in an unpowered cab, I'd give the top honors to the NV215.

Tom.

 

[MacGroove]

You might want to concider the new Epi PS115's. At NAMM, they produced some really tight low end all the way the a smooth high end. They're priced right also, $499.00 with 400 watts @ 8 ohms and only 52 lbs.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I've never really thought about trying any EA stuff. How do they handle the low B?

Also I've heard that on some/most Berg cabs, they need a good bit of power to really make them thump. I just recently went back to my 600W Mesa head, so I won't be really overpowering anything (not that I need to w/ no elec. guitars!) but I've heard that thrown around here before.

I don't see any 15" models listed on Jim's site. Are they discontinued, along with the NV215?

I still think a nice 12+15 setup is my trick. At one point I had an Aggy 112 on top of my Mesa Powerhouse 1x15 with a different M-Pulse 600, and received the most compliments of any point in my playing career from that setup.

 

[Alex]

If you crave uber lows, the Accugroove Whappo Grande goes down to 22 Hz.

Also - A slightly more practical option would be the Accugroove El Gordo that MODNY is selling. It's a compact 18" that goes down to 26Hz.

Note - both ratings on the Accugrooves are @ +-6 dB.

 

[rockstarbassist]

You might want to concider the new Epi PS115's. At NAMM, they produced some really tight low end all the way the a smooth high end. They're priced right also, $499.00 with 400 watts @ 8 ohms and only 52 lbs.

Dayum, I completely forgot about the Epi cabs!!
I need to check those out then.

 

[rockstarbassist]

If you crave uber lows, the Accugroove Whappo Grande goes down to 22 Hz.

Also - A slightly more practical option would be the Accugroove El Gordo that MODNY is selling. It's a compact 18" that goes down to 26Hz.

Note - both ratings on the Accugrooves are @ +-6 dB.

I saw that but it didn't provide any pictures and I tried to look some up but found nothing. I was really interested in that as well, actually.

I need to check the weight on it, cause I LOVE 18's!

 

[alexclaber]

If you really want deep accurate bottom, you can't beat Acmes. A pair of Low-B4 cabs will go stupidly loud and deep whilst remaining very accurate through the mids and highs. Give them plenty of power though - it's impossible to get deep bottom and high efficiency from any compact bass cab (and compact means anything you can move on your own!) so any cab that goes loud with little power cannot produce true response to low B.

They are also incredibly cheap considering the components, design and construction is as good as the most boutique priced cabs.

An alternative would be to be build one of Bill Fitzmaurice's TUBA subs. Serious bottom and incredible efficiency, but the lower you want to go, the bigger the cabs get.

Alex

 

[tombowlus]

I've never really thought about trying any EA stuff. How do they handle the low B?

Stupid good.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Hmm, are they kinda like the Bergs though and need a good bit of juice?? Remember I'm just playing with a 600W Mesa right now...

I'm startin' to check out the Epi stuff... It looks nice.

 

[Alex]

I saw that but it didn't provide any pictures and I tried to look some up but found nothing. I was really interested in that as well, actually.

I need to check the weight on it, cause I LOVE 18's!

He made several threads selling it. Look at his first one (the one where it is advertised as being for sale for $900). That has pics and full specs.

I think the weight is ~62.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Man it looks nice, but i think those Accu's are just a lil out of my price range. I could get a nice Epi setup with 2 cabs for what that one costs..

 

[AaronS]

I was speaking with a friend today about this exact subject. My friend taught keyboards for 10 years at a university, worked for Peavey for 10 years heading one of their instrument divisions and has been the sound engineer for national and world tour bands. He has spent many years in accoustic labs testing and designing musical instruments, amps and cabs. The follow quotations pretty much reflect what he told me.

The current catalog page on their website claims response to 35Hz with 102dB sensitivity, which no driver made is capable of, and -6dB at 29 Hz, which no driver is capable of either. It doesn't mention neo magnets on the woofers, so perhaps there is a non-catalog version available, but those performance specs are still impossible to acheive.

Just about every manufacturer gives false specs if they give any at all. Thankfully I just go by my ears and I don't think response that low is needed for electric bass. Nothing worse than all that excess bottom end rumbling through the room and screwing up the mix. Most of the guys I hear live playing on their B string have no idea what it does out front.

He also said that you may think you are hearing a super low tone from a cab, but when you put it in a lab it is not producing the fundamental, just its own distinct combinations of overtones. He said that although there have been some lab sessions that claim people can hear a pure tone down to 20 Hz, his experience in the lab leaves him dubious about hearing music much below 40 Hz. He told me that every cab, every mic and every room shapes the tone.

His summation was that as a musician I should listen with my ears, not with my eyes on a spec page. Intelligent people tend to be impressed by fancy specs and waste money on equipment that promises the undeliverable and in many cases the undesirable.

 

[bgavin]

 

[rockstarbassist]

I'm not trying to turn this into one of these "My quotes are better than yours" things that happen so often in random-ass question quotes like this, so if you'd like to argue, please do it quietly in another thread.

All I know is that I'm watching DMB's "Listener Supported" and those Meyer 2x18 subs Stefan is using and has mic'd definitely sounds deeper than my Schroeder 410. And I know it's the cab b/c my Modulus sure doesn't BOOM like that when I hit even the open B!!

Anyhow, maybe the only way I'll get the sound I want is to hit up an 18" and maybe throw a 12 or 15 on top of it, who knows.

I just love the crap outta how this thing sounds recorded (and granted he's probably got a $15K rack right besides those subs), but whew- do me likey!!

 

[msquared]

I don't think response that low is needed for electric bass. Nothing worse than all that excess bottom end rumbling through the room and screwing up the mix. Most of the guys I hear live playing on their B string have no idea what it does out front.

+1. I love my NV610 for that reason. It starts dipping at 48Hz. But it will easily handle notes below low E and sounds incredible doing it.

I am to the point where I hate seeing bands with bass players whose gear will go down to whale-mating frequencies. It's fine when they are doing their high register Jaco stuff. But then they start wandering down to the low B and listening to the band is like trying to look at fine art through a waterfall. Yes, having that fundamental is cool in your bedroom. No, it is not cool when you're hitting it with 500 watts in a 200 seater club.

The real problem for me though is when I put on the drummer hat and the bass player du jour brings his spelunking gear out to the gig. Once all that air is moving to produce those fundamentals, it's downright impossible to hear anything consistantly (including myself sometimes) unless I've got in-ears going. If I had a dollar for every time someone had a problem with the band locking in that was fixed by cutting the bass rig down to a 2x10, I'd be able to afford an entire house handcrafted by Roger Sadowsky.

Didn't mean to step on any toes or anything so don't anyone take my ranting the wrong way...

 

[rockstarbassist]

I think that's true to an extent, and no offense taken, but in my band situation where it's just me, an acoustic guitar and loud as hell drummer, there aren't a lot of freq's I have to compete with.
Plus, my band LOVES having the bass LOUD. They both love DMB, 311 and Sublime, so I'm definitely favored when it comes to the mix, and I can do whatever I like with my live and recorded sound without getting into a levels pissing match anywhere.
So, that's why I figure I can get away with having a 112+115 or 118 rig and keep the volumes reasonable, without overpowering the club or room or something.

My fave players all dig 18's, so maybe that's where I should look.

 

[Alex]

If I had a dollar for every time someone had a problem with the band locking in that was fixed by cutting the bass rig down to a 2x10, I'd be able to afford an entire house handcrafted by Roger Sadowsky.

Roger does architecture, too?